SMN - Enhanced Ruin misbehaving?

I don't play SMN long, but i have started noticing, that Enhanced Ruin trait that is supposed to give you Ruin IV after Egi assault skills, is working very weirdly in fights.

On dummy it is fine, 4 egi assault in row will give me 4 Ruin IV.

But on bosses, I often get only 3, sometimes even 2.

I know pets need some time to start reacting, so I usually do on opener:

R3 > R2 > weave in Tri-D & DWT
> R3 > weave in Energy Drain & Enkindle
...and only after that start doing Egi assaults
> first assault > weave in AetherPact & Fester
> second assault...

Even so, I'm often missing some R4 procs.

It feels like (I'm guessing) other Pet abilities like Enkindle and Aetherpact are somehow interferring with assaults procing R4, if they are weaved between assaults ??

Anyone seen this happening?

Well I've actually seen it too, but I have no idea what does it, whether its lag or actual actions surrounding it. It just gets eaten every now and then.

But honestly I've had such nasty latency issues of late that I can't say whether its an actual bug or whether it was something caused by that. Between that and rubber banding I have no idea whether its even game based or not.

Pet actions ghost

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

Pet actions ghost

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Basically this. It happens after our pets are given multiple actions in a row(tell this to Ifrit) and can't execute them all because of animation locks and the like. They also get put into a queue if they haven't executed it yet. Still, I think they need to just scrap SMN's pet system and redo the job altogether next expansion so we don't wind up with this.

Well then, maybe it would be enough if the pet OGCD actions (not Egi assaults, just stuff like Aetherpact, Enkindle) would become OUR skills that are only castable with pet out.

If we would cast the Devotion, not our pet, then pets would only perform GCD skills and mirror actions in case of DW and FB, maybe that would fix this.

Pet actions ghosting hard sometimes, I usually delay going into Demi Bahamut just so that my Cooldown isn't consumed. Enkindle and Devotion can both go into CD without being cast at all.

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Originally Posted by RylaBee

It feels like (I'm guessing) other Pet abilities like Enkindle and Aetherpact are somehow interferring with assaults procing R4, if they are weaved between assaults ??

Anyone seen this happening?

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Have a look at this page: http://www.akhmorning.com/guide/openers/

You'll see that the opener here has precast Ruin 3 then and Egi assault, so that it starts spacing them out. These openers are set out to minimize the clunky pet AI to avoid losing procs :). I'm using the 6th GCD opener and I never had any problem with procs since.

Not sure on this, but ping might be considered too?
If you use pet actions then rush into Demi summoning, it can put the action on CD but no efect applied (for instance if you use the second Devotion and Firebird Trance back to back, depending on what your pet AI had queued at that time, you might entirely lose the Devotion).
So you have to identify the moments where you lose Ruin procs and work them around. The opener is the most intense moment, throughout the fight you can space things out with a bit more flexibility.

Appreciate the opener being posted!

Ping can affect it somewhat since latency delay affects the pet order going out in a timely manner. The actions ghosting is why we recommend things in a certain order, and why we don't recommend using an Egi Assault with Summon Bahamut or Firebird Trance weaved in the same GCD, as that's a surefire way to getting a ghost because of the Egi despawning before the pet command resolves - unless you deliberately delay the Summon/Trance, which is also not ideal.

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Originally Posted by Nemekh

Appreciate the opener being posted!

Ping can affect it somewhat since latency delay affects the pet order going out in a timely manner. The actions ghosting is why we recommend things in a certain order, and why we don't recommend using an Egi Assault with Summon Bahamut or Firebird Trance weaved in the same GCD, as that's a surefire way to getting a ghost because of the Egi despawning before the pet command resolves - unless you deliberately delay the Summon/Trance, which is also not ideal.

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Well those resources you guys have been working on are very good, thank you so much for all that effort :D

Thanks for the reply on the ping too!

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Have a look at this page: http://www.akhmorning.com/guide/openers/

You'll see that the opener here has precast Ruin 3 then and Egi assault, so that it starts spacing them out.

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Just a note here, this almost never work for me. Using Assault right after precasted R3, the pet is still so inactive(unengaged) he will often not even use it - or maybe he uses it in so delayed fashion that it ghost the next one.

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Originally Posted by RylaBee

Just a note here, this almost never work for me. Using Assault right after precasted R3, the pet is still so inactive(unengaged) he will often not even use it - or maybe he uses it in so delayed fashion that it ghost the next one.

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Do you press "sic" during your Ruin 3 pre-cast? That's what allows you to follow directly with EA2. A good indicator is seeing your egi running fearlessly towards the boss during your cast, you can also pre position your Egi close to the boss and press "sic" at 0.5 seconds before the pull (but I have a bad experience of pulling that way so I prefer to let the egi run towards the boss during my cast). Sometimes I don't time it right (or there is some delay) and I have to clip my EA2 GCD for 0.5 second maybe, but it's better to stick with the order set in the opener.

from more observation: Devotion can sometimes trigger up to almost 1,5 GCDs later after Aetherpact.
This can happen even in middle of the fight. Its very easy to "eat" it.

so bad design..

If this is the same bug, I'm thinking of then its been around literally forever.

I am shocked they never fixed it and that it now spread to the new abilities.

It used to do this back in the day too. While it never ate any of my Contagions (back when that was in the game) it did eat more than its share of my Enkindles.

I do not remember it eating a Rouse or Spur though. But it might have as I usually used them in conjunction with each other so might not have noticed.

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Originally Posted by RylaBee

from more observation: Devotion can sometimes trigger up to almost 1,5 GCDs later after Aetherpact.
This can happen even in middle of the fight. Its very easy to "eat" it.

so bad design..

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It can happen yeah, especially if you did something like "Egi Assault" and weaved Aetherpact into this GCD. And yesterday I stupidly double weaved Aetherpact/Firebird Trance. I had the Devotion animation but no one got the buff.

So : Aetherpact should launch from the SMN, please.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

I do not remember it eating a Rouse or Spur though. But it might have as I usually used them in conjunction with each other so might not have noticed.

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I think Rouse and Spur were not affected because it was from the SMN to the pet only, while Enkindle and Aetherpact are "from the SMN to the pet to the target/team" so that's were it can get clunky.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

It can happen yeah, especially if you did something like "Egi Assault" and weaved Aetherpact into this GCD. And yesterday I stupidly double weaved Aetherpact/Firebird Trance. I had the Devotion animation but no one got the buff.

So : Aetherpact should launch from the SMN, please.

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yeah that happens to me a lot even tho I know how to correct it but dbl-weaving those two seems so logical... a shame that the code/animation log is so bad we have to deal with ghosting instead <.<

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Originally Posted by Mansion

It can happen yeah, especially if you did something like "Egi Assault" and weaved Aetherpact into this GCD. And yesterday I stupidly double weaved Aetherpact/Firebird Trance. I had the Devotion animation but no one got the buff.

So : Aetherpact should launch from the SMN, please.



I think Rouse and Spur were not affected because it was from the SMN to the pet only, while Enkindle and Aetherpact are "from the SMN to the pet to the target/team" so that's were it can get clunky.

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Well it certainly explains why it was Enkindles that got eaten back then.

You used to use Rouse + Spur + Enkindle. Three pet actions all in a row. Rouse and Spur together gave this insane damage boost to the pet. Together they were like 60% or 80% damage bonus to the pets attacks.

Which you really needed for Enkindle back then, which had an equally insanely long CD. It was like 5-10 minutes or thereabouts so you'd only use like one of them for the entire fight... and losing one to Pet Queue overloading was painful.

I suppose its probably not as noticeable these days since the CD is so much shorter and missing 1 out of 4-5 during a given boss fight could easily be missed.