PLDs who sit at 100% Mana and only Clemency now and then, why?

Noticing this shockingly often, and it's bothersome. You have cool damage spells and a rotation. Why are you not using them? Like, I'll gladly take the additional uptime to throw out more Holys or Glares, but that'd require you to be consistent with your Clemencys and you never are. I've had two Paladins die now because they conditioned me to think that they'll never use their mana on anything except a Clemency and then just...don't use it on anything when I'm banking on it.

At the very least use Requiescat to use those Clemencies, like cmon. It buffs your healing magic by 50% and does damage! Every sixty seconds!

Requiescat -> Holy Spirit (4 times) -> Confiteor
Requiescat -> Holy Circle (4 times) -> Confiteor

It's that simple. Am I missing something?

Edit: I should clarify so nobody goes "There's a thread for this already.":
I'm not referring to PLDs casting Clemency in of itself. I'm referring solely to the Paladins that never use Requiescat, Holy Spirit, Holy Circle, or Confiteor. They just sit at 100% MP and throw out a single (sometimes two) Clemency spells when they're low health. Not even on bosses will they use their MP for anything DPS related. It really seems like there's a 50/50 chance when I run into a PLD in duty finder that I'll get one that seemingly doesn't even have those spells on their hotbar.

You have a heated thread down the page called "Plds: You have clemency for a reason", check it, you may find enlightenment or your inner devils there. Good Luck o7.
Well your edit arrived just as i posted this lol.
I play healer on expert roulette and i havent seen a single Pld that doesnt pelvic trust the pack of mobs or forget they have requiescat, that thing is addictive, if they dont use it they havent read their abilities which is reallyyyy rare.

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Originally Posted by ZAZX

Noticing this shockingly often, and it's bothersome. You have cool damage spells and a rotation. Why are you not using them? Like, I'll gladly take the additional uptime to throw out more Holys or Glares, but that'd require you to be consistent with your Clemencys and you never are. I've had two Paladins die now because they conditioned me to think that they'll never use their mana on anything except a Clemency and then just...don't use it on anything when I'm banking on it.

At the very least use Requiescat to use those Clemencies, like cmon. It buffs your healing magic by 50% and does damage! Every sixty seconds!

Requiescat -> Holy Spirit (4 times) -> Confiteor
Requiescat -> Holy Circle (4 times) -> Confiteor

It's that simple. Am I missing something?

Edit: I should clarify so nobody goes "There's a thread for this already.":
I'm not referring to PLDs casting Clemency in of itself. I'm referring solely to the Paladins that never use Requiescat, Holy Spirit, Holy Circle, or Confiteor. They just sit at 100% MP and throw out a single (sometimes two) Clemency spells when they're low health. Not even on bosses will they use their MP for anything DPS related. It really seems like there's a 50/50 chance when I run into a PLD in duty finder that I'll get one that seemingly doesn't even have those spells on their hotbar.

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You need to ask the PLDs you partied with why, not come onto the forums and ask here. We have no idea. Tanks players are not a collective. The tank players that use the forums are the ones who will use Requiescat, Holy Spirit, Holy Circle, etc.

Hey, at least it ain't like a PLD ... errr... excuse me, Gladiator (yes, at Lv37...) I grouped with today in Temple of Qarn who didn't believe in using Eclipse and it took several pulls to get him to turn Iron Will on.

Me, as a DNC, wound up being the tank for half the dungeon.

Sometimes people just... don't want to do obvious things?

Though when you are talking about late-game abilities, sometimes people leveled a job back in Stormblood, then did Roulettes or Beast Tribe in ShB, and they end up in your dungeon run missing abilities because they simply weren't aware that they exist.

But he should have at least been using Holy Spirit as that was in Stormblood.

Offense Magic usage? On my snored-and-bored / sword-and-board tank? The N E R V E!
For real tho, amount of PLDs in levelling especially Lv72+ is too high. When I see them I wonder if they will use Confiteor at 80... right after requiescat.

Clemency is great for when a healer goes down. Or when the boss is in an invuln phase like the last copied factory boss. But by and large, paladins should not be using clemency when things are running smoothly. That said they also should NOT be sitting at 100% mp either, and should be using their spell damage phase if things aren't chaotic enough to make clemency called for. It's like vercure, a good situational tool, but not something that should be spammed under normal circumstances.

You get enough mana back to cast a single ha or clemency every 60 secs

Both AoE magic damage and insta-cast trait are learned between 70-80, in duty finder you will often meet people who are leveling PLD and do not realize/are not accustomed to this yet.

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Originally Posted by RylaBee

Both AoE magic damage and insta-cast trait are learned between 70-80, in duty finder you will often meet people who are leveling PLD and do not realize/are not accustomed to this yet.

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Just to add onto this. Holy circle is 72 and Requiescat is 68. So basically it's not until 68 that a pld starts using their MP on single targets, and 72 before they start using MP on regular pulls.

Yeah, we don't get to do our spell stuff until late SB and not in aoe until SHB, I get the feeling TC isn't talking about low level dungeons though but more high level stuff. I've seen paladin tanks in ex roulette whose mp bar I never see going down now and then. Some people in dutyfinder even at 80 just don't know their jobs.

I Clemency all the time. I even Clemency pretty much every time I use Veil, because I never assume Random-PUG-Healer#567 even knows how to proc Veil's activation (or is even paying attention during their dps-spam-tunnel vision). A little loss in my dps rotation is acceptable, when the trade-off is helping keep the party alive.

The why is that those plds suck at their job, no more and no less.
Theres no reason you shouldn't be doing your magical rotation (excluding clem, which is emergency only)

I have been seeing more and more plds spam clem and never use attack magic as you said and as a pld main it hurts my soul, not sure where this trend came from.

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Originally Posted by Alaeacus

I Clemency all the time. I even Clemency pretty much every time I use Veil, because I never assume Random-PUG-Healer#567 even knows how to proc Veil's activation (or is even paying attention during their dps-spam-tunnel vision). A little loss in my dps rotation is acceptable, when the trade-off is helping keep the party alive.

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If it actually 'is' helping the party live that's one thing. But under normal circumstances, a pld hitting clemency is just overhealing. Unless the healer(s) are down or just not doing their role well, clemency is just wasted. It's better to let the healers do their job and bust clemency out during emergencies.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

If it actually 'is' helping the party live that's one thing. But under normal circumstances, a pld hitting clemency is just overhealing. Unless the healer(s) are down or just not doing their role well, clemency is just wasted. It's better to let the healers do their job and bust clemency out during emergencies.

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I agree, but I personally spend 99.99% of my game time in PUGs, quite often in Raids. Many healers don't know the content and think keeping me at 20% health during a Tank Buster charge is appropriate. Many healers care more about reviving the Bard who has already died two times and begin ignoring the tank. Many healers don't even have half their skills in their rotation.

So your scenario where a healer is actually doing their role, is usually only 50% of my world. The rest of the time I have Clemency ready to go. I give no sh*ts about the dps loss of using Clemency. We would have killed the enemies .5 seconds faster if I didn't use Clemency. Big freaking deal.

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Originally Posted by Alaeacus

I agree, but I personally spend 99.99% of my game time in PUGs, quite often in Raids. Many healers don't know the content and think keeping me at 20% health during a Tank Buster charge is appropriate. Many healers care more about reviving the Bard who has already died two times and begin ignoring the tank. Many healers don't even have half their skills in their rotation.

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You either have the worst party luck on the planet or are playing incorrectly yourself because in the near 1000 dungeon, raids, and trials i've completed i've rarely ever had problems with healers leaving me to die to tank busters.

The same reason ice mages exist, or the many other incarnations of DPS that ignore most of their rotation.

They're probably watching netflix or something as they play, and they just don't care about the extra complexity. Making forum posts won't change them.

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Originally Posted by Palibun

You either have the worst party luck on the planet or are playing incorrectly yourself because in the near 1000 dungeon, raids, and trials i've completed i've rarely ever had problems with healers leaving me to die to tank busters.

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Anecdote vs anecdote. YMMV ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I still miss having raise

When i played my pld for the first time at lvl 80 i was lost on which skills should i use first. So i always started with physical combo because i tought it will be better to apply dot and using other physical cds in fyf buff before going into magic dmg.
Thats why you see so many plds with full mp so often, because they are not playing it optimised.

I remember using my MP spells a lot. People would question it. Now, the question is why aren't PLDs using MP spells...!?

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I remember using my MP spells a lot. People would question it. Now, the question is why aren't PLDs using MP spells...!?

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That was before they gave PLD a "MUH DEEEEEEEPS!!!!" spell (and then followed that up with an AoE DEEEEEEPS spell!).

I'm quite sure that if Clemency was the only thing you could use MP on, people would have a lot less issues with a PLD using it, esp if there was a way to make it instant.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

That was before they gave PLD a "MUH DEEEEEEEPS!!!!" spell (and then followed that up with an AoE DEEEEEEPS spell!).

I'm quite sure that if Clemency was the only thing you could use MP on, people would have a lot less issues with a PLD using it, esp if there was a way to make it instant.

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Actually it would be, "why are you wasting GCDs on Clemency instead of spending GCDs on DPS." You seem to miss the point, a lot, or are over embellishing the uses of Clemency. It is an progression / emergency tool, not something you throw out, because YOU think it's a good idea.

You seem to miss the point that, every healer has pretty much all the tools they could ever need to handle just about any situation, doubly so in 8 man content, on the caveat, that they play them well.

It's not about "muh dps" it's about, not wasting GCDs on Clemency when it's not needed. You use it when the healer(s) is dead, you are progressing a new section of a fight, but must also communicate it has been used, so the healers know that they do need to factor that in, so in future attempts, they will have heals to substitute that Clemency or to keep yourself alive as long as possible to see a bit more of a fight.

And yes PLDs do have DPS spells, telling us not to use them is equivalent to telling WARs not to Fell Cleave or Decimate, it's no different here. End of the day play as you see fit, but please stop encouraging bad play based on your ideology (not fact).

The Grand Cosmos: Healer dies to blue flame, DPS die to scorch, and PLD? "Haha my time to shine!"

so now its the paladins job to heal and not the healers? wtf

Clemency should be used for "oh shit" moments

What's funny is that if Clemancy gave a damage buff if you healed someone(Say X amount of HP) we wouldn't be having this discussion and it would be on every Rotation guide.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

What's funny is that if Clemancy gave a damage buff if you healed someone(Say X amount of HP) we wouldn't be having this discussion and it would be on every Rotation guide.

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The whole clemency discussion is missing the point anyways. The sort of player the OP is complaining about doesn't care. They're just trying to get the instance done while focusing mostly on netflix or similar, and they really don't care about how (un)optimal their play is.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

The whole clemency discussion is missing the point anyways. The sort of player the OP is complaining about doesn't care. They're just trying to get the instance done while focusing mostly on netflix or similar, and they really don't care about how (un)optimal their play is.

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That, precisely. Some people enter some sort of a tunnel-visioning when they do something for the hundredth time, or are so bored of it that they watch series or whatever they fancy on the side (Netflix and YouTube being the best examples I know).
You would be surprised to know that some of these people actually know how to do their job and can shine when they focus. But obviously, if they are being bored and do something else on the side... this will not solve anything. It is all on their good wills.

I always assume it's for the same reasons zero-DPS healers rarely use their oGCD heals: they think they might need them for emergencies, but if an emergency happens, they are totally overwhelmed or whatever and don't use their stuff after all, because they panic or forget about it. Don't know. The PLDs who don't use their MP for DPS are most likely also the ones who don't use their defense CDs, or at least not very well.