Bishop Auto-turret

Can we please get this back, the Queen is clunky when it comes to attacking targets once the first target is dead. tie the Bishop to the LVL 40 Job quest allowing us to receive both Auto-turrets. It doesn't have to do anything special when it summon, just allow us throw it to an Enemy since it's shape like a grenade, and it can act like the previous Bishop Auto-turret. I know people will welcome it's return, and maybe when the next expansion comes we can see it upgrade to a KING for multiple targets.

I personally won't welcome it, I play MCH since HW.

The initial idea with Bishop was that it would be a mage support with its abilitiy to give back MP from HW.
Slapping TP/MP regen on turrets was clunky and weird, Hypercharge was supposed to increase the recovery in "Promotion" stance.
In SB it was Summon and forget or use Overload for big AoE damage. Yet it was the best Bishop iteration in all the MCH versions.

How would it work in ShB? Fill up your gauge and bring it when the gauge is at 50? Bad idea, MCH is already crippled in TEA due to its lack of AoE and you want to bring back an immobile turret in a very mobile game. Remember when the bosses/adds were moved from your Hypercharged Bishop turret you couldn't replace otherwise you would loose Hypercharge? Same story except you can't move the Bishop at all, it would be infinitely worse. Especially if you want to throw it at a target and not directly place it.

I'd rather see the Bishop turret as its own identity and boost the MCH AoE, we are due a Noise Blaster as a pendent to Air Anchor and a real Flamethrower.

The Bishop was filled with niche problems about its ridicule ranged and mobility, I don't want it if I can't place it where I want and under the battery gauge.
The Automaton Queen already has the Bishop's AoE animation, give it AoEs additionnal damage, fix its dumb AI and voila.

A clunky queen is the least of your worries as a mch, when I tank on my drk I just leave when I see one in my group.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

A clunky queen is the least of your worries as a mch, when I tank on my drk I just leave when I see one in my group.

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Nice thinking. Now they can get a tank that's not a dark knight.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I personally won't welcome it, I play MCH since HW.

The initial idea with Bishop was that it would be a mage support with its abilitiy to give back MP from HW.
Slapping TP/MP regen on turrets was clunky and weird, Hypercharge was supposed to increase the recovery in "Promotion" stance.
In SB it was Summon and forget or use Overload for big AoE damage. Yet it was the best Bishop iteration in all the MCH versions.

How would it work in ShB? Fill up your gauge and bring it when the gauge is at 50? Bad idea, MCH is already crippled in TEA due to its lack of AoE and you want to bring back an immobile turret in a very mobile game. Remember when the bosses/adds were moved from your Hypercharged Bishop turret you couldn't replace otherwise you would loose Hypercharge? Same story except you can't move the Bishop at all, it would be infinitely worse. Especially if you want to throw it at a target and not directly place it.

I'd rather see the Bishop turret as its own identity and boost the MCH AoE, we are due a Noise Blaster as a pendent to Air Anchor and a real Flamethrower.

The Bishop was filled with niche problems about its ridicule ranged and mobility, I don't want it if I can't place it where I want and under the battery gauge.
The Automaton Queen already has the Bishop's AoE animation, give it AoEs additionnal damage, fix its dumb AI and voila.

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It doesnt neccessarily need to be immobile at all, the bishop could just arch lightning from where ever it was summoned onto the primary target, dealing splash aoe damage but without having to be relocated.

I haven’t played Machinist since Heavensward, but I do want to say that I found the turrets much more interesting when they could double as support. Obviously Refresh can’t exist in the game anymore for balance, but I’m sure there’s other ways they could’ve kept Promotion but with different effects. That’s just from my own bias of the ranged physical role being somewhat ‘support’ oriented though (hence why I lost my interest in Machinist lol, since that’s not the kind of job it is at all). I always liked Machinist aesthetically and in terms of playstyle, but I kinda lost interest as it started becoming clear it wasn’t really made to help the party out. Not that there’s anything wrong with it being more ‘pure DPS’, i just mean that it’s not my personal preference in terms of playstyles.

In terms of Bishop Autoturret alone it’s one of those ability removals where it’s like, Machinist didn’t really need the Bishop Autoturret, but it didn’t really need removed either. I don’t imagine it was massively over or under powered or difficult to balance, so I guess they just considered it as ‘button bloat’.

That said, I guess it’s a similar situation to Scholar’s fairies. Selene was considered the ‘less useful’ one, so instead of thinking of a way to make it useful they just deleted it as an alternative option to the main pet (Eos). But then they try to compensate by adding an upgrade of the main pet (Seraph, or in Machinist’s case the Queen Autoturret), which is cool, but still means that the decision making that was there previously is now absent.

Lastly, does Machinist really struggled with AoE right now in general? I know Bard is considered very powerful in situations where there’s a lot of enemies because of how procs work, but I never hear any talk of Machinist in regards to these fights. I can’t think of anything I’ve seen that says ‘Machinist has good AoE right now’, or ‘Machinist needs help in the AoE department’

If Bishop Autoturret comes back, it doesn't need to be the same point-blank AoE it used to be. Just make it auto-attack AoEs on a target at a distance like Garuda Egi and there will be no need to position or reposition it. Automaton King, same thing.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Lastly, does Machinist really struggled with AoE right now in general? I know Bard is considered very powerful in situations where there’s a lot of enemies because of how procs work, but I never hear any talk of Machinist in regards to these fights. I can’t think of anything I’ve seen that says ‘Machinist has good AoE right now’, or ‘Machinist needs help in the AoE department’

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No, but it's lacking. You only spam Spread Shot with the occasional Bioblaster and Auto Crossbow spam. Flamethrower too I guess.

There's also no synergy between its AoE kit, the Battery Gauge and the turret/automaton.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I haven’t played Machinist since Heavensward, but I do want to say that I found the turrets much more interesting when they could double as support. Obviously Refresh can’t exist in the game anymore for balance, but I’m sure there’s other ways they could’ve kept Promotion but with different effects. That’s just from my own bias of the ranged physical role being somewhat ‘support’ oriented though (hence why I lost my interest in Machinist lol, since that’s not the kind of job it is at all). I always liked Machinist aesthetically and in terms of playstyle, but I kinda lost interest as it started becoming clear it wasn’t really made to help the party out. Not that there’s anything wrong with it being more ‘pure DPS’, i just mean that it’s not my personal preference in terms of playstyles.

In terms of Bishop Autoturret alone it’s one of those ability removals where it’s like, Machinist didn’t really need the Bishop Autoturret, but it didn’t really need removed either. I don’t imagine it was massively over or under powered or difficult to balance, so I guess they just considered it as ‘button bloat’.

That said, I guess it’s a similar situation to Scholar’s fairies. Selene was considered the ‘less useful’ one, so instead of thinking of a way to make it useful they just deleted it as an alternative option to the main pet (Eos). But then they try to compensate by adding an upgrade of the main pet (Seraph, or in Machinist’s case the Queen Autoturret), which is cool, but still means that the decision making that was there previously is now absent.

Lastly, does Machinist really struggled with AoE right now in general? I know Bard is considered very powerful in situations where there’s a lot of enemies because of how procs work, but I never hear any talk of Machinist in regards to these fights. I can’t think of anything I’ve seen that says ‘Machinist has good AoE right now’, or ‘Machinist needs help in the AoE department’

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Its pretty bad right now compared to the other two physical ranged, this is mostly because the recent ultimate fight at most times will only give you two targets to hit. DNC and BRD both have AOE moves that are worth using at this amount but MCH needs 3 targets for it to be worthwhile. Bioblaster is worth it on two targets but only if it gets its full duration off (even then its just a 20 potency gain over drill and it cant be reassembled). Queen has no way of doing AOE so pretty much as a MCH in the current ultimate the only AOE in your rotation that you use is Ricochet which you were already using in the single target rotation.

Its the strongest single target DPS, weakest AOE target DPS by far when it comes to two targets.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Lastly, does Machinist really struggled with AoE right now in general? I know Bard is considered very powerful in situations where there’s a lot of enemies because of how procs work, but I never hear any talk of Machinist in regards to these fights. I can’t think of anything I’ve seen that says ‘Machinist has good AoE right now’, or ‘Machinist needs help in the AoE department’

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MCH AOE need some love, Spread Shot gives 5 Heat, Auto Crossbow is good, Flamethrower is so niche and offers nothing special but 10 sec of resting your hand. Single target dps on mch is great, its the multiple targets that i hate, none of the MCH AOE skills reset nothing and if you want to get battery, you must go single target. if we had the Bishop back we could mix in some single target rotations to gain battery without losing all Dps from multiple targets.

Just a suggestion though, I'd like to see king automaton alternative where a ranged automaton came in, start shooting machine guns in conal AoE as normal attack, and overload give you a circle AoE mark to launch magitek missile or something. If no action taken until time over, it will instead line AoE a target (lasers?)

Maybe potencies will be 130(auto), 500 (line), 450 (AoE)

That means retweak for queen automaton though, maybe if manual overload cause pile bunker (single target) while time up cause it to self destruct (AoE) instead.

As for turret... Low level don't get to choose lol.

But then again it might be a complete overhaul.

Ranged is in such a weird spot, you guys go from "Support Dps" that somehow manage to out damage everyone else, to "DPS" then get out damaged by everyone else. lol. They should of just made combo chains longer and more interesting instead of worrying about bloat over and over and over.

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Originally Posted by Renkei

Ranged is in such a weird spot, you guys go from "Support Dps" that somehow manage to out damage everyone else, to "DPS" then get out damaged by everyone else. lol. They should of just made combo chains longer and more interesting instead of worrying about bloat over and over and over.

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Ranged spot never managed to outdps everyone else except during the end of HW.
Funny enough, MCH was outshined, or incredibly bad to play, or litterally both, outside of this Ranged DPS meta period.

DPS wise, rangeds will be at the bottom of the barrel if SQEX only buffs RDM.
Utility wise, rangeds were simply stripped of everything with nothing in return.

Let's make the Bishop Turret combine with Flamethrower so that the Bishop uses Flamethrower for the MCH, improving MCH DPS, making Flamethrower not suck and we get an AoE turret again.

No job has Bloat problems, IMO their's just skills and abilities that have sistuational uses, Flamethrower should of kept its additional properties. I think if Flamethrower kept its additional heat gain we could use Auto Crossbow more for a burst window. Every 60sec we could have something to gain from Flamethrower, But if SE doesnt want Flamethrower to give Heat, they could aleast give us Bishop back.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

A clunky queen is the least of your worries as a mch, when I tank on my drk I just leave when I see one in my group.

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Playing the easiest brain dead tank, laughing about one of the most difficult/broken cls to play... that’s character dear.