Can a tank main get through SB without actually tanking a duty for live players?

Edit: To be clear, this whole post refers to SHADOWBRINGERS. I didn't realize until after I posted that there are potentially two "SB" expansions.

In other MMOs I'm a fervent tank almost purely for open world play, but I've been leveling as a ranged DPS from level 1 since returning to FFXIV purely because eventually dungeons and trials come up and... let's just say that I am not new to tanking, but I'm retired from tanking dungeons for live players that I don't know. Especially in a game I'm "newish" to.


That all said, I've been feeling the "overworld inferiority" of being a squishy caster while questing in the open world, and especially when I rarely leave that beaten MSQ path. The MSQ is a relatively curated experience, but some day I'm going to turn around and do side quests, and I will be a tank class when I do that... meanwhile, as I approach level 60 and the chance to change relatively seamlessly to gunbreaker as I changed from summoner to red mage at 50, I'm left wondering if, at 70 when my Road to 70 runs out and I inevitably have to do stuff other than the MSQ to advance... I'm wondering how feasible a switch to a tank class in SB might be given the existence of the trust system.

Please, please don't turn this thread into a discussion of how I should try tanking dungeons. I've been a tank for over a decade in other games, I know how the responsibility game works in dungeons and I'm on vacation from all that in FFXIV. That said, I do still like the tank's ability to handle adds in the open world (and also please don't tell me that DPS can too, I know that, but tanks are inherently superior in this as a result of their core design), and the trust system, if I understand it correctly is my opportunity to be a tank outside dungeons, and be beholden to no live players in the dungeons that will be necessary to complete the SB MSQ.

So, in short, here's what I'm asking:

If I go from being a ranged DPS to a tank spec on the dot at the onset of Shadowbringers, will the trust system be in play for most if not all of the dungeons and trials that will pop up as part of that MSQ completion? Can I "be a tank" for the SB phase of the game without being "another player's tank," because of the trust system?

Bonus question: And... if I can... what does that do to the queues should I remain a DPS? I LOVE the idea of "not needing" other players, but wouldn't that make the queues for other players (especially DPS) a wasteland?

Thanks in advance for any and all helpful replies! :)

For SB? No. You need to actually tank the dungeons in SB if that's the only role you're working through the MSQ with as there are no Trusts available for that expansion, or even Squadrons. SB is in the middle of both systems with no recourse for players who don't want to interact with others - and to be honest even in ShB you're going to NEED to do trials with other players. The game does not have Trusts for any of the trials in ShB. My best advice if you have tank anxiety? Level a DPS or Healer through the main story for SB and then go into Heaven on High to level your Tank (It requires other players for the fastest experience but you don't need to actually 'tank' in that content, unless you're doing the Savage floors) or do Beast Tribes to get them to ShB. Or save Quests, there's a lot of ways you can do it. You just need to get through public content with any class to beat the MSQ requirement.

Once you hit ShB's content you're pretty much in the clear with the exception, again, of the trials. Though at least in those you can off-tank if you mention you're new and want to off-tank in chat. Most groups will be understanding.

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Originally Posted by Enla

For SB? No. You need to actually tank the dungeons in SB if that's the only role you're working through the MSQ with as there are no Trusts available for that expansion, or even Squadrons. SB is in the middle of both systems with no recourse for players who don't want to interact with others - and to be honest even in ShB you're going to NEED to do trials with other players. The game does not have Trusts for any of the trials in ShB. My best advice if you have tank anxiety? Level a DPS or Healer through the main story for SB and then go into Heaven on High to level your Tank (It requires other players for the fastest experience but you don't need to actually 'tank' in that content, unless you're doing the Savage floors) or do Beast Tribes to get them to ShB.

Once you hit ShB's content you're pretty much in the clear with the exception, again, of the trials. Though at least in those you can off-tank if you mention you're new and want to off-tank in chat. Most groups will be understanding.

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Oh yeah, there are two expansions whose initials could be "SB."

I am referring entirely to shadowbringers in my post.

You said don't try to make this in telling you to try tanking in FFXIV, yet the vibe I'm getting from your post is that tanking is calling you and you're conflicted by it. I don't know about all this "don't need others", this is an MMO..

In any case, stick with DPS. Trusts can't do <71 content yet, and there is squadrons (good for up to 70 I think)

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Originally Posted by Omedon

Oh yeah, there are two expansions whose initials could be "SB."

I am referring entirely to shadowbringers in my post.

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For future reference we call it ShB here. ^^ Trust me when I say it was super confusing when the name was dropped!

That said for ShB's you're fine save, again for the Trials, but again you just need to tell people about your lack of comfort and most co-tanks will take over the job of handling the boss. I will say however you /will/ be expected to help tank in the first Trial, but only during the adds phase. Other than that you should be good for a mostly solo experience.

Firstly, by 'SB' do you mean Stormblood or Shadowbringers? (the former is usually abbreviated as 'SB', the later as 'SHB' to differentiate them). If you're meaning Shadowbringers content, then the answer is yes you can go through most of the MSQ without needing to party with other players... buuuut.... there is a catch. Dungeons can use the new Trust system to make up your party (and are reccomended for those who want to experience the story of the dungeon, as the NPCs have their own little story-specific dialogues during them). The three Trial battles that are also part of the MSQ however (

Titania, Innocence and Hades

), require a party of 8 players to complete, you cannot use Trusts with them I'm afraid, and you cannot avoid them either.

Of these three, only the first (

Titania

) gave me the most trouble, several parties I was in were useless and couldn't meet the DPS check, but I eventually found one party that knew what to do and did it without fuss.

Hades, the final battle for the MSQ

, I did have one wipe and I failed the QTE that was a part of it, but we otherwise pulled through with not to much drama; while

Innocence gave... no trouble whatsoever, I was most surprised it went by so easily.

So while most of SHB's story duties you can solo with Trusts, the three Trial battles required at different parts of the story will require you to party with others. There is no way around this I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Enla

For future reference we call it ShB here. ^^ Trust me when I say it was super confusing when the name was dropped!

That said for ShB's you're fine save, again for the Trials, but again you just need to tell people about your lack of comfort and most co-tanks will take over the job of handling the boss. I will say however you /will/ be expected to help tank in the first Trial, but only during the adds phase. Other than that you should be good for a mostly solo experience.

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Yeah unfortunately the trial stipulation keeps me in ranged DPS for the whole MSQ, but thank you for clearing that up.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

You said don't try to make this in telling you to try tanking in FFXIV, yet the vibe I'm getting from your post is that tanking is calling you and you're conflicted by it. I don't know about all this "don't need others", this is an MMO..

In any case, stick with DPS. Trusts can't do <71 content yet, and there is squadrons (good for up to 70 I think)

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FFXIV has been, in my experience, incredible about being "a single player game that touches the community every now and then" when played purely for the story, and that community knows the dungeons and I do not. I would not burden them with my newness as a tank because "don't be new" is the first unwritten rule of MMO tanking.

I *love* tank classes for open world content. Tanks own the open world. That's why I retired from dungeon tanking, because I don't need to tank dungeons to be a tank in the games I play. Nothing about tanking for live players is calling me or conflicting me, I will not do it in FFXIV. I won't be around enough to learn it.

Tanking is really not a difficult thing to pick up.

The main things they need to be concerned with are positioning the boss so it doesn't endanger people (Simply keeping the boss turned away is sufficient in most cases) and mitigating heavy-hitting attacks so they don't die. The main tank is often not subjected to a lot of mechanics that the rest of the party has to handle either, so they actually have it easier in some ways. Dungeon trash is pretty much just spam AoEs + chain cooldowns to smooth incoming damage at the start of a pull + don't stand in the bad stuff.

You could easily level a dps and a tank through msq and side quests in SHB, I leveled Dancer, Bard and RDM that way. Trusts are perfect for practicing tanking and healing as well. Perhaps doing trusts as a tank will give you the confidence to run with other players eventually. I do understand your reluctance, I have always been DPS because I don't feel I react fast enough to tank or heal. If you level a dps and a tank, you can do the dungeons with trusts as a tank, then do the trials as dps.

There is no expansion you can get through in this MMO without interacting with other players.

If you progress through the MSQ as a tank, you will tank for live players at least three times even in the most isolated expansion.

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Originally Posted by Tyssyn

You could easily level a dps and a tank through msq and side quests in SHB, I leveled Dancer, Bard and RDM that way. Trusts are perfect for practicing tanking and healing as well. Perhaps doing trusts as a tank will give you the confidence to run with other players eventually. I do understand your reluctance, I have always been DPS because I don't feel I react fast enough to tank or heal. If you level a dps and a tank, you can do the dungeons with trusts as a tank, then do the trials as dps.

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This is actually a variation of what I was already considering: Play tank for 99% of the game starting with Shadowbringers, learn the dungeons with the trusts, and keep my RDM halfass up to date with the off-quest rewards and the odd roulette or deep dungeons, purely and completely for the mandatory trials and almost nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

There is no expansion you can get through in this MMO without interacting with other players.

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I don't ask to be a hermit, I just don't want to tank for other people. My enjoyment of the tank classes are in solo pursuits or role-agnostic content.

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Originally Posted by Omedon

I would not burden them with my newness as a tank because "don't be new" is the first unwritten rule of MMO tanking.

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I wonder why you think that. One can be new and tank at the same time, and learn as they go.
Of course it's better if you start taking from the start instead of starting the last 10 levels, and if you're worried about people you can do that with squadron all the way to 60. And I also wonder why you want to start tanking directly in ShB?

For Shadowbringers: do trusts for dungeons, Pixie tribe dailies (maybe Stormblood kojin & ananta if you like), bounty hunts weekly/daily including the ones from Stormblood if you like, plus do FATES as you come across them because every little counts. A mish mash of this is how I levelled WHM, and did not once interact with other players in duties (though I should say I did the MSQ on bard first).

I wouldn't listen to people who tell you to learn to tank as you go. in my experience, if you're not running fast enough/in the way they want you to, the rest of your party will either run ahead and pull stuff 'for you' or complain and insult you. I enjoy the tank jobs, but I have levelled my DRK to 80 almost entirely on solo content to avoid exactly this. The only times I've run dungeons with players is if I've done a roulette with friends. 60 to 70 is hard work but I just spammed the top level squadron dungeons and Stormblood beast tribes and FATEs. 70 to 80 was actually fun running with the Trusts, I infinitely prefer them to most of the players I encounter. And this isn't me being a misanthrope, in my personal experience people are either rude or nasty or bad or a combination of the three. Sometimes I can face this as a healer or DPS, but as an inexperienced tank, it is very stressful and unpleasant.

I have been playing MMOs for nearly 20 years. I met some of my closest friends this way. But sadly the environment has changed very much for the worse in recent times and, as a consequence, I prefer to avoid other players as much as possible. Tools like the Duty Finder and content like instanced dungeons have - in my personal opinion - destroyed any need for players to avoid being toxic and/or know even basics about their job or role. But again, this is my opinion, and I very much enjoy playing this game with my friend group or solo. I am well aware most folks love the DF and I'm in no way asking for its removal

In Shadowbringers, only the first trial actually requires two tanks for a mechanic (specifically, the add phase). For the others, just say you're a first-timer and ask the other tank if they can take it. Most people will understand. So you can get through most of it without actually having to tank for live people, unless of course the other tank is also new (or just refusing to do it, but I've rarely seen that).

Short answer: Yes, as long as you switch to TRUST for dungeons and switch to DPS/Healer for trials.

Side note: That would be inefficient, I think, if you're going through the MSQ for the first time and having to level at least two jobs (one being a Tank) at the same time. And at that point, are you really a Tank main any more? You might as well switch to being a Melee DPS main.

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Originally Posted by Omedon

FFXIV has been, in my experience, incredible about being "a single player game that touches the community every now and then" when played purely for the story, and that community knows the dungeons and I do not. I would not burden them with my newness as a tank because "don't be new" is the first unwritten rule of MMO tanking.

I *love* tank classes for open world content. Tanks own the open world. That's why I retired from dungeon tanking, because I don't need to tank dungeons to be a tank in the games I play. Nothing about tanking for live players is calling me or conflicting me, I will not do it in FFXIV. I won't be around enough to learn it.

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I stopped tanking because it got boring. I've had it all happen to me to: Healers pulling more, DPS pulling more, etc. I just figure, it must be the an accepted thing to just pull wall to wall even if you have no CDs available - it was my style that pull size is governed by my available CDs. Nope. Some people weren't having that. "Bruh I dun care if you got 0 CDs, pull 15 mobs, let's gogogogo". If healers love stressing themselves out, well it's their rodeo. Also by calling you, I meant the role, not necessarily tanking for others. Dancer yells at me whenever I'm on any other job.

So that said, no one is gonna force you(and I have been forced to tank as well, which then made me very picky on who I get acquainted with now), and tanking with trusts is very doable. Tanking with squadrons is a pain but doable. There is something for everyone in this game. For DPS, the queues can be harsh but for the most part the other 3 you don't have to really worry about. Take care of yourself, do you part and everything will be alright.

You can do trusts for msq dungeons, but not for on msq dungeons (to be fair, only two of these in SHB at level 80) and the three trials you'll have to do.

You can 'probably' get by saying you're new and having the other tank do the tanking in these. I don't recall them really 'requiring' two tanks. But I don't recommend this. There's always the chance the other tank will ALSO be new and not want to actually tank for live players. Or that the other tank could die and you have to pick up the boss to keep it from going after the party.

IMO, if you don't want to tank for players, just level a dps through the msq and then level a tank later through trust dungeons etc. Even if it's a trial/raid/alliance raid where there are other tanks, you should not queue in as a tank if you're not prepared to actually tank it. Because as I said above, there's always a chance the OTHER tank will ALSO be new or that the other tank will die or dc or something. Don't be one of those pseudo tanks in DF that queues in as a tank but doesn't actually want to tank.

You can actually do it provided you level up a dps at the same time. I am a tank main so I dont have this problem. But the xp you get from the leveling dungeons and MSQ along with side quests are enough to level 2 jobs from 70 to 80.

In your case you can do tank for the overworld stuff and you can do leveling roulette on dps to help counter any shortage of xp. Then you can use the dps for trials until you are comfortable with the mechanics.

However if I were you I would just dive in to trials as a tank and just let them know you are new. All of the leveling trials in SHB are 2 tanks with no tank swaps so you can technically just play OT and dps the entire time while looking at what the MT is doing so you can learn for next time.

OP, you are placing a heavy burden on yourself choosing, or trying to choose not to group with players with the role you enjoy most. Of course, this is your choice but I hope you acknowledge the amount of extra effort you will have to put in to just keep avoiding tanking for parties. I bring this up because you still want to progress the MSQ as a tank. Yes, in ShB you will have the luxury of the trusts to get you through the MSQ dungeons, but as has been pointed out to you, the trials will prove to be a significant roadblock. You will essentially have to keep a minimum of two jobs leveled throughout the MSQ: your tank, along with another you feel comfortable using in the trials to come.

Despite your tanking experience in other mmos, you still have to tank in FFXIV for people to accept you tank in FFXIV. A lot of what you have learned from other mmos will transfer over such as keeping mobs turned away from group, use damage mitigation abilities, have good gear etc. but you still have to get your feet wet in order to get good at it. The outer world does not, and likely never will present to you any kind of threat that is significant enough to increase your skill. S/A rank mobs don't count as they are not meant to be soloed, and all roles tank by default when they solo. IOW, you're not learning how to tank. This is done in dungeons.

Tanks face their greatest threat angering all the hornets in the nest. Otherwise known as trash pulling in dungeons. Bosses and trials are typically spank fests for tanks as the majority of the mechanics target the DPS and healers. Your inflated HP and high defense also gives you the privilege of surviving mechanics that would one shot you as a DPS or healer. If you go into upcoming trials as a DPS, the fights are actually going to be harder for you to not only perform, but also survive so I would keep that in mind as well especially if you are not wanting to be a burden to your group.

The way to not be a burden to your group is to speak up to let them know to keep their expectations at a reasonable level. If you are new to tanking a dungeon, just say so. 99.8% of the time no one is going to give you grief over it, and the .02% someone does you can just leave. Nothing is forcing you to group with players you don't want to group with.

Something else that is ironic and might be a tad bit comforting is that every single bad tank I've had was actually really good at it, and it was their pompous 'holier than thou' attitudes that made me not want to play with them. Talking down on other players, threatening to leave, giving unsolicited advice; it's things like that that will make you a burdensome tank no one wants to play with. Causing a wipe because you pulled too much? They are actually MUCH more willing to deal with that, my friend.

Get out there cowboy!

Tank is the easiest job in the game to play for reasons many people had stated. It's not hard to become a decent tank.

While the common complain why people don't like tanking is because they claim other player's attitude toward them ... but frankly, in my experience the worst enemy of new tanks is their own mentality. It's not that people antagonizes tank, it's often because tank antagonize themselves and others, some sort of mental block. For example:

You often hear tanks keep saying "I feel responsible and pressure". This is because they often self-claim tanking is the most important person in the group and "everyone has to do thing my way", like I'm the leader of the group kind of attitude. And often they get told off for it. Life just becomes a lot easier when a tank comes to term that tanking is no more important than a DPS or healer.


Keep an open mind, enjoy the class, keep a poker face, and most importantly - don't feel antagonize or antagonized unless someone is going out of their way to do so and you can tank or DPS or heal decently after a handful of dungeon. See a wall if you actually run into one, don't imagine a wall even before you see one.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Tank is the easiest job in the game to play for reasons many people had stated. It's not hard to become a decent tank.

While the common complain why people don't like tanking is because they claim other player's attitude toward them ... but frankly, in my experience the worst enemy of new tanks is their own mentality. It's not that people antagonizes tank, it's often because tank antagonize themselves and others, some sort of mental block. For example:

You often hear tanks keep saying "I feel responsible and pressure". This is because they often self-claim tanking is the most important person in the group and "everyone has to do thing my way", like I'm the leader of the group kind of attitude. And often they get told off for it. Life just becomes a lot easier when a tank comes to term that tanking is no more important than a DPS or healer.


Keep an open mind, enjoy the class, keep a poker face, and most importantly - don't feel antagonize or antagonized unless someone is going out of their way to do so and you can tank or DPS or heal decently after a handful of dungeon. See a wall if you actually run into one, don't imagine a wall even before you see one.

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I think a lot of it is from how...visible your mistakes can be.

If you mess up your dps rotation, nobody's probably going to notice unless you're running a parser on high end content.

If you forget to hit a cooldown for a tankbuster and eat dirt, or if you pick up the wrong add in an alliance raid add phase, or point the boss the wrong way and get someone aoed, etc, it tends to be more noticable. Tanking isn't harder than the other roles, but it is a very visible role.

Not that making mistakes is the end of the world, even experienced people goof up now and then, but it can certainly feel like all eyes are on you when you're tanking.

IMO, if you're not willing to "tank" for duties in this game, can you really call yourself a "tank main"?

With the way you're specifying your tanking preferences, you're just another DPS with a blue coat of paint.

I've only ever played a Tank in this game and I think you can get past Shadowbringers using the Trust System if I recall. I did it this way to learn the mechanics but the downside is that the runs are a lot slower than playing with actual people. So if you're okay with that then yeah you can get through Shadowbringers without tanking for other players.