The most basic of function for pvp has still not been added to this #1 MMO.

Requesting a duel. (because lord have mercy no one understood the context of my post)

Yes yes, I can hear it now... Pvp isn't this game's strong suit. Bla bla... It never needs to be to have this function in any mmo. Any basic mmo has a simple few options, trade.... private message, party, block, and duel. Why can't we have this function and allow it only outside of sanctuaries or something? Just as simple as reverting your hotbars to the pvp ones whilst requesting/accepting a duel. If they need to go the extra mile, even designate the arena size or something prior to the accept of the request. Some means to allow anyone to setup their hotbar a lil prior and then go ham having fun for either RP purposes or genuine pvp.

But I don't wanna get spammed with duel requests.

HEAR YA LOUD AND CLEAR... Like this request already... most mmo's also come with an "auto reject duels" function. Ya know, in the case where you're just outright not interested in dueling anyone or perhaps you've got that one sore butthurt player... I see no reason these can't be implemented in the game. And before anyone argues about it being intrusive... We still can be interrupted while teleporting by initiating a trade to a player.

Seriously, why can't this be a normal thing? Something that could tie together the pvp and pve in this game, and make it a little more noticeable when you see players trying to murder each other outside of town areas. Heck, even keep the requirement to unlock the wolves den first.

but we actually do have it though.

We have duelling. It sucks. 1v1 is awful in this game.

But you can duel people ....

If dueling isn't ingame, what's this area supposed to be used for?

https://i.imgur.com/68iWfRH.png

I'm assuming he's more talking about PvPing anywhere not just in a certain location..

But the thing is ingame the battles are only done as training exercises between the 3.. should be 5 or 6 by this point.. grand companies.

That's why they have a specific location for pvp and why the battles tend to be kept in the same locations.. just changing the objectives an goals for earning points.

Fighting in the middle of a map would be akin to battles to the death from rouges and such as happens on the maps.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

If dueling isn't ingame, what's this area supposed to be used for?

https://i.imgur.com/68iWfRH.png

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Complimenting each others glams and repeatedly hitting the space bar.

@Baxcel his post directly implies we don't have duelling at all lol. One thing I will agree with is I wish I could do my PvP bars outside of wolves den pier.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

but we actually do have it though.

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No we don't. We have an arena. That's not a request to duel function.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

If dueling isn't ingame, what's this area supposed to be used for?

https://i.imgur.com/68iWfRH.png

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It's specifically for practicing pvp in a pvp map/area, it's not a duel requesting function. Ya know, the basic one where you can make a request to duel someone without having to be at the wolves den.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

Complimenting each others glams and repeatedly hitting the space bar.

@Baxcel his post directly implies we don't have duelling at all lol. One thing I will agree with is I wish I could do my PvP bars outside of wolves den pier.

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No my post is specifying we don't have a request to duel function... Just a shitty map you guys linked 4 times that no one really uses.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

I'm assuming he's more talking about PvPing anywhere not just in a certain location..

But the thing is ingame the battles are only done as training exercises between the 3.. should be 5 or 6 by this point.. grand companies.

That's why they have a specific location for pvp and why the battles tend to be kept in the same locations.. just changing the objectives an goals for earning points.

Fighting in the middle of a map would be akin to battles to the death from rouges and such as happens on the maps.

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Exactly the point. Just let me request someone a duel in the middle of a map and that's that. No reason there can't be that concept implemented with no gain or loss to it.

WoW and other MMO has it because it has a unified action/ability. This game has two set of values. It is going to be a challenge to flag between 2 set of values on world sever. I am not aware of any game can do that yet, do you?

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No my post is specifying we don't have a request to duel function

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But we do, you just have to be at the Pier. What you mean to ask for is open world duelling. The duelling feature itself already exists. It's not our fault you used poor phrasing and got misunderstood lol.

I too want to duel you in the open world then you get one shot by a roaming mob at 1 hp after losing

It would be interesting to see how they would go about it.

Like, would we have players take their attributes and actions from PvP? Does that mean classes and BLU can't duel because they don't have stats for PvP?

If we take their stats and actions from PvP, do we make it so they can't damage overworld enemies? This would kind of be an important consideration since a 20k HP character doing thousands of damage will obliterate everything in the ARR overworld and most of HW, so I assume they would need to be configured so they can only attack who ever they are duelling with, while still being targeted by aggressive enemies should they come into range.

So like, would we just use our PvE stats and actions instead, and let anyone duel? That sounds like a fun chance to actually have a way to pit out gear score against each other and see how some of these actions work in PvP. I feel like there would be some silly bug reports that occur with unintended interactions if we go with this kind of approach, but it could be worth it! I'd love to see a DoH PvP tournament though if I remember anything correctly, ARM would body the others.

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Originally Posted by Crit

I too want to duel you in the open world then you get one shot by a roaming mob at 1 hp after losing

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Why would you request a duel near enemies to begin with?

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

It would be interesting to see how they would go about it.

Like, would we have players take their attributes and actions from PvP? Does that mean classes and BLU can't duel because they don't have stats for PvP?

If we take their stats and actions from PvP, do we make it so they can't damage overworld enemies? This would kind of be an important consideration since a 20k HP character doing thousands of damage will obliterate everything in the ARR overworld and most of HW, so I assume they would need to be configured so they can only attack who ever they are duelling with, while still being targeted by aggressive enemies should they come into range.

So like, would we just use our PvE stats and actions instead, and let anyone duel? That sounds like a fun chance to actually have a way to pit out gear score against each other and see how some of these actions work in PvP. I feel like there would be some silly bug reports that occur with unintended interactions if we go with this kind of approach, but it could be worth it! I'd love to see a DoH PvP tournament though if I remember anything correctly, ARM would body the others.

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I imagine it would have to be pulled straight from the pvp skill list and pull literally everything over and replace your hotbar for the duration of the duel. BLU is kinda... not even on the radar for me in this since it's already not viable anywhere else. Majority of the time, people request duels in areas they find that are without enemies in the open world or they do in fact aggro them. Some games have it to where if you aggro an enemy, the duel automatically ends. I would assume with the pvp values, the high potency skills aren't anywhere near as strong as wearing actual gear and being sync'd to your armor. I can't imagine them returning pvp to needing gear again, not when they're getting closer to balancing jobs and understanding how each role should perform.

Lets not get crazy with open world dueling. But could they add arenas to the cities so people hanging out could go duel. I admit it would have been way easier when pvp and pve had the same skills. Might have to be a little instance connected to each city.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Lets not get crazy with open world dueling. But could they add arenas to the cities so people hanging out could go duel. I admit it would have been way easier when pvp and pve had the same skills. Might have to be a little instance connected to each city.

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Imagine them turning the ul'dah coliseum into... ya know.. a coliseum

Simplest way to implement it would be duty-style. After agreeing to the duel, both players would have 45sec or w/e to hit Commence, then get teleported to a small instanced arena. Rest as in Feast/Frontlines, waiting to start, change your PvP stuff, etc.

Now if you also wanted an audience to watch your duel... well that's a different question entirely. Not sure if spectators are in this game anywhere. Spectators would be another step towards "essential PvP features"

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Originally Posted by icy_

Not sure if spectators are in this game anywhere. Spectators would be another step towards "essential PvP features"

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Feast has spectating feature in custom matches.

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Originally Posted by icy_

Simplest way to implement it would be duty-style. After agreeing to the duel, both players would have 45sec or w/e to hit Commence, then get teleported to a small instanced arena. Rest as in Feast/Frontlines, waiting to start, change your PvP stuff, etc.

Now if you also wanted an audience to watch your duel... well that's a different question entirely. Not sure if spectators are in this game anywhere. Spectators would be another step towards "essential PvP features"

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How hard is it going to be for you just to visit the Pier?
As far as I concern, most of duels in WoW happened at Org and Storm gate anyway. What is the difference between that and Pier?

Jobs are not really balanced around 1v1ing considering how we only have a fixed number of skills and actions to choose from and gear doesn't affect anything. At least dueling in XI ballista was nuanced because of subjob combinations and gear sets.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Lets not get crazy with open world dueling. But could they add arenas to the cities so people hanging out could go duel. I admit it would have been way easier when pvp and pve had the same skills. Might have to be a little instance connected to each city.

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I'm not a fan of 1v1 dueling since its not that great in ff to begin with, with the newer skill bars. However I support this. It would be cool to have "arena" areas in cities to chill at for those that live for 1v1 dueling.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Jobs are not really balanced around 1v1ing considering how we only have a fixed number of skills and actions to choose from and gear doesn't affect anything. At least dueling in XI ballista was nuanced because of subjob combinations and gear sets.

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Even in that game, it is only the same job dueling really matters.
Not a lot of chance for a warrior to beat a Ninja or Thief or vice versa

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

How hard is it going to be for you just to visit the Pier?
As far as I concern, most of duels in WoW happened at Org and Storm gate anyway. What is the difference between that and Pier?

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I don't play WoW. Most games let you duel on the spot anywhere ya want.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Jobs are not really balanced around 1v1ing considering how we only have a fixed number of skills and actions to choose from and gear doesn't affect anything. At least dueling in XI ballista was nuanced because of subjob combinations and gear sets.

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Even if it's not, we should still have the function available like any other mmo has it. Plus the Wolevs den already exists, so they clearly know some players enjoying practicing 1on1's with each other.

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Originally Posted by Valic

Even if it's not, we should still have the function available like any other mmo has it. Plus the Wolevs den already exists, so they clearly know some players enjoying practicing 1on1's with each other.

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well gotta find something to do during a 20min queue...

and most people I know that duel don't do it for practice, it's because there isn't a PvP dummy that hits you back or allows you to test abilities in an environment similar to hitting a player with certain cooldowns up, so sometimes it's the only way to test something or gauge any kind of data. There's practically no other reason for duelling in this game because 1v1 is complete dog.

Personally, I love dueling. It's certainly not balanced in the slightest, but it can still be competitive and fun and I enjoy hosting a semi-casual dueling tournament from time to time.

That said, I'd love to see more areas you can duel in. As discussed in this thread, that does raise questions of how you can make that work. Someone already mentioned this and I agree, the simplest solution to expanding dueling options would be to simply add a dueling arena to every major city. I like the idea of having a housing item that allows you to create a small dueling arena in your home, too! Now that would be cool.

I think dueling being available everywhere all the time is the ideal, however from a technical standpoint it's probably the least realistic. It would require a lot of code and probably a lot of network resources. Not sure though and I'd love to see it implemented.

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Originally Posted by Mango24

Personally, I love dueling. It's certainly not balanced in the slightest, but it can still be competitive and fun and I enjoy hosting a semi-casual dueling tournament from time to time.

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...84/375/44b.png

PS: I like your housing duel arena idea.

I'd like a system where people can just challenge each other basically almost anywhere that is not a duty or city. The game would set the player's stats and actions to their PvP equivalents. I don't really like the idea of having duelling areas in the city states. I like the spontaneity of people walking out of a major city and just seeing people duke it out. That kind of stuff was fun in other online RPGs. I do get the technical hurdles and exploit-doctoring it would involve, though.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

well gotta find something to do during a 20min queue...

and most people I know that duel don't do it for practice, it's because there isn't a PvP dummy that hits you back or allows you to test abilities in an environment similar to hitting a player with certain cooldowns up, so sometimes it's the only way to test something or gauge any kind of data. There's practically no other reason for duelling in this game because 1v1 is complete dog.

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I mean, majority of the players I see in the wolves den are dueling so they can get a jist of how to burst efficiently or faster than the opponent. Otherwise they're working on how to kite their opponent out and when they should be doing such... Ya know, dueling. There's doubtless a few who just go in with their heads bashing each other "just cuz" but I rarely see that being the case myself.

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Originally Posted by Mango24

Personally, I love dueling. It's certainly not balanced in the slightest, but it can still be competitive and fun and I enjoy hosting a semi-casual dueling tournament from time to time.

That said, I'd love to see more areas you can duel in. As discussed in this thread, that does raise questions of how you can make that work. Someone already mentioned this and I agree, the simplest solution to expanding dueling options would be to simply add a dueling arena to every major city. I like the idea of having a housing item that allows you to create a small dueling arena in your home, too! Now that would be cool.

I think dueling being available everywhere all the time is the ideal, however from a technical standpoint it's probably the least realistic. It would require a lot of code and probably a lot of network resources. Not sure though and I'd love to see it implemented.

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^ this person gets me.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

I'd like a system where people can just challenge each other basically almost anywhere that is not a duty or city. The game would set the player's stats and actions to their PvP equivalents. I don't really like the idea of having duelling areas in the city states. I like the spontaneity of people walking out of a major city and just seeing people duke it out. That kind of stuff was fun in other online RPGs. I do get the technical hurdles and exploit-doctoring it would involve, though.

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This one as well

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

PS: I like your housing duel arena idea.

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That image is hysterical. I can see the obvious contradiction... but hear me out. There is a pretty rich skill depth to mastering 1v1 dueling and I find it extremely competitive and fun. That's knowingly accepting the reality that ultimately there is an established hierarchy of 'top tier meta' jobs that are favored to win. It's learning those jobs weaknesses and exploiting them that allows for growth and interest pvp that I find so compelling. The state of the dueling meta is probably the best its ever been... even though its in a pretty horrible place. From what I can gather if ranged got a small buff to their survivability they'd be more relevant but as of right now red mage has the most disengage, defenses and healing so they are sitting on top.

In any case I think a dueling meta could really flourish, even if the balancing was focused around the other modes. It certainly has recently so far as I can tell. Here's hoping the system gets more love!

P.S.: I'm glad you like the idea... maybe they'll implement something like it one day.

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Originally Posted by Mango24

P.S.: I'm glad you like the idea... maybe they'll implement something like it one day.

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It reminds me of the boxing rings you used to be able to get in Player-owned housing back in RuneScape, that's why. Plus as a bonus it'd enable me to queue for PvP from inside my house and be able to change my bars somewhere other than the Pier.

Wouldn't bother talking to anyone in this section about class depth and counter play though. Barely anyone in this game even the FRC players have the slightest bit of concept of it and the only one who posts here that I've seen that has an idea is Crit - who ironically, started climbing ranked at a time when the game probably had the least depth possible and literally the best thing you could do was play whatever was the most monkey ape braindead full meme damage job to play for free mount and titles. It's probably because I come from WoW where people actually bother to study hard counters, whereas here they'll just play w.e is the most braindead damage because small brain competitive community and the majority of the top players would never perform well in any other MMO that has ranked arena-based PvP where you actually have to think about something 30 seconds before you do it.

1v1 feels so unbalanced esp between roles idk how worthwhile it'd be.

If you could do 4v4 or 8v8 out in the open world I think that would be fun. Some of the older areas are so pretty. It would be nice to have something to do in them again. New players could see higher level versions of themselves, which might motivate them to keep playing, or possibly get them into pvp.

I think it would make some people really happy if they introduced a form of open world pvp where you use your full pve kit and gear may or may not matter again.

Feast and the other instanced areas can stay the same so they can more easily balance them.