So ready to fight Ruby Weapon?
Guess we should prepare for Emerald Weapon and Diamond Weapon as well.
5.2 Ruby Weapon Trial!
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12-14-2019, 02:05 PMEdwinLi5.2 Ruby Weapon Trial!
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12-14-2019, 02:07 PMNessaWyvern
O-o an FF7 crossover?
Also, what about poor Sapphire weapon? -
12-14-2019, 02:09 PMSturmChurro
Is this like a Pokemon crossover?
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12-14-2019, 02:10 PMEdwinLi
from current livestream 14 hours streaming news, it appears to be the 5.2 Chronicles of a New Era most likely one of the "Missing Weapons" Gaius went looking for.
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12-14-2019, 02:11 PMListrella
It'll take a few things from ff7 but I don't think it'll be a full crossover, probaby like the warring triad, they were taking from ff6 but you could hardly call it a ff6 crossover.
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12-14-2019, 02:15 PMEdwinLiIt is going to be related to 5.X Main Scenario storyline though and a more important Side Storyline at that as it will focus on Gaius side of events for 5.X era involving him finding the "Missing Weapons" with WoL's help which we now know are Ruby Weapon, Sapphire Weapon, Emerald Weapon, and Diamond weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Listrella
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12-14-2019, 03:03 PMEorzeaHero69
I'm betting the theme will be a remix of "Attack of the Weapons" from FF7.
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12-14-2019, 03:04 PMVenKitsuneFor it to be a "Crossover" They'd need to add an event to FF7 too for it to be a "Crossover"...Yea, that aint happening to a game that old and one they're unable to update lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
SE ripping off their previous games instead of actually coming up with anything original in the name of "Nostalgia" is hardly new.
Also, Omega was a part of the MSQ - Does that make the Omega raids Canon? Nope. Thus far the only canonical raid is Coils - Eden might be, but we'll have to see after all the tiers are out. -
12-14-2019, 03:15 PMlinayWhy would you think any of the raid is not canon?Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
Also, have you seen the arena scenes at the final boss of The Twinning? -
12-14-2019, 03:17 PMListrella
what makes you think a raid series isn't canon? I think the only things that aren't canon are the crossover events with other games.
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12-14-2019, 03:21 PMRasikkoQuote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
Post being ripped into by the Sister Ray, or before?
Can't fight Saphy because it got beheadedblastedoff by the Junon Cannon.
I will laugh all kinds of silliness if Ruby Weapon has the Whirlsand attack. Suck in 7 players and leave the tank to solo it.
Would love that, but I expect it to be another rendition of the main FF theme like we've been getting for the last 6yrs.Quote:
Originally Posted by EorzeaHero69
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12-14-2019, 03:24 PMKaiserdrache
Ven, dont think pnly in the past, when 5.2 hits, it will be in the midst of FEBRUARY 2020 ...
Now count judt 1+1 together and think about what happens a few days later in MARCH ....
Dingdongdingdongdingdong dum
Dingdongdingdongding dum di dum dum
Right. FF7 Remake comes and what do you believe would be the best thing at the moment SE could possibly do to celebrate this?
I strongly believe we will see an announcement for a colloboation with the FF7 Remake to celebrate the return of FF7 within the best online FF.
Would make marketingwise just sense to do that. se did it with FF15 and something similar would be easily doable for FF7R -
12-14-2019, 03:29 PMVenKitsuneTo this day, Coils is the only raid that is commented on in the MSQ - The Dialogue changes (I believe its Alise that comments on it, sometime during HW i believe) depending on if you've completed it by then or not. Omega, gets nothing. Infact its not even mentioned at all after 3.55 - Its like all the characters just forgot it existed when stormblood* started. Its never mentioned in the MSQ ever again.Quote:
Originally Posted by linay
The closest we got to Alex being canon was the final boss of the twinning - But considering the nature of alex, alternate timelines...Time travel and parallel universes...Its not confirmation its canon. -
12-14-2019, 03:34 PMAvidria
Maybe I totally missed something somehow, but I thought the entire point of the Twinning was that Ironworks used tech based on Alexander and Omega to create their own time machine, and that was how the entire plot of Shadowbringers was even possible in the first place.
Did I wildly misinterpret that or what? I don't see how Alex could be non-canon considering that. And... Crystal Tower kinda has to be too, doesn't it? What are we actually considering canon to mean here lol
...also @ the thread I have no idea what these weapons are but I guess it'll be interesting to see when they're out. -
12-14-2019, 03:41 PMEdwinLiTwinning revealed Omega is Canon as the technology used to create the time travel device for the Exarch required using a part of Alex and Omega's technology. In the side web story after events of WoL's death from the Black Rose, Omega narrates events that lead to the creation of the Time Travel Device as well while being in his new smaller toy body that he got from the ending of Omega Raid.Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
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12-14-2019, 03:42 PMVenKitsuneYou have to remember that regardless as to if you've done alex or not, alexander himself is still a part of the terrain in dravania - Ironworks could of simply copied him with help from goblins. No data from omega was used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidria
Also yes, Crystal tower raids were brought in to canon with shb's release, evident by the fact that an up until that point minor NPC became a major story NPC for the games third and arguably most successful and funded expansion. Once again, dialogue changes as to if you've done crystal tower or not before shadowbringers. Its canon.
And no, the first IS a parallel dimension of sorts - Eulmore is Limsa, Lakeland is mor dhona etc etc. The methods to which how the crystal tower was summoned to the first are very vague, but it was hinted it was magic, not magitech.
How does that prove the omega RAIDS was canon? Omega was activated and used in the MSQ - Ofcource they'd know some of the tech behind it...And where does omega narrate that? The Small omega "OMG" Minion/The one that follows Alpha is NOT omega, not the true omega anyway, that was made clear at the end of the omega raids, it was simply omegas memories, not its consciousness - We KILL omega at the end of the raid.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
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12-14-2019, 03:50 PMRasikkoThey are call backs to FF7. 2 of them are optional, one of them is part of the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidria
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12-14-2019, 03:56 PMEdwinLiI said this will be a Important Side Storyline relating to the Main Scenario Quests. I did not say this will be a Cross-over event.Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
We actually had a early introduction to this new Chroncile of a New Era Storyline in 5.1 Main Scenario being that we are told that Gaius went his separate way because he had to locate "missing weapons" that were taken from the Garlean Armory which we now know are these "Weapons" with Ruby Weapon being the first Trial.
This Chroncile of a New Era storyline may get mentioned in the Main Scenario later again once Gaius gets back into it since he is on a mission to destroy these Weapons and how the story mentions is obviously going to be based on the Progress but best guess he either mentions it as he defeated them alone or mentions that WoL helped based on Progress later. -
12-14-2019, 04:28 PMKageTokage
Honestly, the other weapons showing up felt more like a "when" then an "if", to me.
It is interesting that both the relic weapon quests and this trial series seem to be on the Source as opposed to the First. I guess they're trying to get our feet wet in Ilsabard before we head into its furthest reaches to address Garlemald. -
12-14-2019, 04:33 PMPowercowWell, and the Crystal Tower. That one kinda plays a minor role in Shadowbringers, but it could be easily missed. Also the Red Mage job quests return to the Weeping City after we've (mostly) cleared it. Also pretty sure someone off-handedly mentions Rabanastre outside of the 24man questline so that seems like it exists. Alpha wanders the world after clearing Omega, he can be spotted all over the place. Heck, the origin story for the very race you're playing is explained in Alexander!Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
Yeah all the raids are canon. The Savage/Extreme modes have a certain level of embellishment from the Wandering Minstrel/Minstrelling Wanderer but indeed, the base versions of stuff did happen. Now, if your personal headcanon is that it hasn't happened that's fine, but saying "just because it's not part of the MSQ means it didn't happen!" is just silly. -
12-14-2019, 05:09 PMKageTokageIt's just the Hotgo tribe in particular who originated from that scenario. It kinda bugs me how little mention they actually get at the steppe despite their relevance to the Alexander story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Powercow
One of the Dotharl mentions that their tribe incurred heavy losses in their conflict with them but nothing is mentioned as to what led them to want to eradicate the tribe in the first place (Though it's possible that may simply have been the norm for the Dotharl until their tribe got pushed to the brink). -
12-14-2019, 05:17 PMWhyAmIHereNo matter how much you want to be right, you will never accept any evidence to the contrary, will you?Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
Omega plants its memories into the OMG toy so as to learn what it was lacking, and how lowly humans were able to defeat it, and what it means to have a soul.
We do not /kill/ Omega. We /defeat/ Omega. Big difference. -
12-14-2019, 05:38 PMMansionThere's also the bit with Midgardsormr in the Omega storyline which explains why Middy is "crossed out" of MSQ for a bit as he crossed the Rift to help us.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere
OMG is indeed part of the whole Garlond story leading to Shadowbringers being possible.
And for Alexander, well the Twinning shows Alexander Prime which is not the first form of Alexander we met, we had the whole Father and Son arms to conquer before being abel to access this area. It's not possible that Garlond could have gathered data on Alexander with Goblin help when without our help, the evil Goblins would still rule Alexander (and have rewritten history too, I guess). -
12-14-2019, 07:31 PMRanniehttps://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../sidestory_03/Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
From the official ffxiv website and a part of Lodestone... it is official Cannon posted by Word of God ie the developers.
Meaning it is not some random fanfiction some hyped up fan wrote. -
12-14-2019, 07:41 PMMariaArvana*general whole story spoilers.*Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
"The world forsaken" from the tales from the shadows series the devs posted on the Lodestone a while back tells the tale from the doomed future, where its revealed that the OMG minion has Omega's "consciousness" or something akin to that imparted into it, as it is monitoring and collecting data while narrating events from the doomed future. In it, it specifically mentions that The Tycoon was created through analyzing the encounters with Alexander & Omega, on top of several of the datalogs in the Twinning implying that the NOAH expedition, the group that opened the doors of the Crystal Tower in the CT series, had happened as Graha was already in his stasis state inside the tower, something that directly happens at the end of the CT series and the fact the ironworks peeps from the future didn't have to contend with Xande & the like, as they had already been cleared out. There's also the Tycoon's chamber itself that has portals on the walls clearly depicting moments in time from the Alexander, CT & Omega raids, showcasing they did happen.
OMG even mentions the line "I could by this time emulate the cognitive processes of organic beings, as I had done on one particular occasion many years ago, in the moments immediately prior to the irreversible dissolution of my previous vessel.", directly implicating that the events of the Omega raid had happened. Considering the doomed future begins to happen soon after our current time and the WoL dies in the future one, it leaves a very small timeframe that these expeditions could have happened.
I also believe there's a quote from Yoshi-P or one of the storywriters that they made the decision that all 24 mans & 8 man side-story trials (Warring Triad, Four lords) happen canonically in the overarching story, since it would have limited their ability to use older content to advance the narrative (Tycoon's origins being rooted in CT, Omega & Alexander raids, for example) if they assumed not every WoL went into those instances.
Overall, there's mountains of evidence to showcase the fact that Yoshi-P and his storytelling crew have made the raids & trial stories canon in the overarching narrative, regardless of individual player progress. -
12-14-2019, 07:58 PMNealSnow
The omega raids are indeed canon... it even changes lore for the whole series. SO SPOLIERS BECAUSE IDK HOW TO DO THE COMMAND YOU BEEN WARNED
If you played attention to cutscenes it's told how thoughout the history of shinryu and omega's rivalry, shinryu was all this time actually midgarsormor. So whenever shinryu first appears with omega? Whatever title it was that's midgard. Dragons also never existed in xiv's world natively. They started to pop up when during one encounter midgard was wounded heavily, and retreated by traveling the rift and making a deal with hydaelyn for sanctuary. Omega can also traval the rift... so omega does eventually follow midgard to hydaelyn.
Now cid an crew initially believed omega was allagan tech but no it's not. This is why you fight recreations of ff bosses lore wise, because you YOU and everyone else kefka, exdearh. They are merely legends. However to omega? It's been in every ff where the bosses are from, so it's literally recreating these "myths" from its recorded data on them.
While xiv does use a lot of fan service you have to pay really close attention to what's just fan service, and what's actually canon to xiv. Plus Gilgamesh can traval between worlds and while there was debate on if xiv's was the canon gilga, we later do learn yes he is infact the same rift traveling gilgamesh.
Hope that helps clear things up for anyone who might have skipped or just barely read the omega cutsnene dialog. -
12-14-2019, 08:10 PMBaxcelNow now, us long time fans of FF7 are finally getting our due after being screwed over during Stormblood.. using FF4 5 and 6 bosses and then completely skipping 7 for the final act.. it's about time we had a full on trial set for FF7.Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
Plus don't forget about the Remaking that's suppose to be out next year too -
12-14-2019, 08:16 PMGeminaIndeed. We have to remember that Omega is a machine. Advanced beyond comprehension, but still a machine and does not possess a soul whose aether returns to the lifestream upon death as those on Hydaelyn know it. Much like a computer; we can smash it to bits, but if its memory is stored in a flash drive (OMG), then it is simple a matter of transferring it over to another computer. Fortunately, we don't have the technology to build Omega another 'body', but it is still there. Learning. Processing. It could be several millennia, but Omega's return is inevitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere
I really don't know how anything and everything that has to do with Omega cannot be considered canon. The raids themselves simply represent our encounters with it. Considering that Omega is mentioned in the early MSQ and seen as a great threat that is visibly witnessed at the end of HW, we can only assume that the absolute certain debriefing from the WoL and Ironworks of its defeat takes place off screen. There's just no way Nanamo and co. would just accept its no longer around without knowing how that came to be so.
As for the main topic. I seem to remember five weapons in total from VII. Three of them are part of the story, and two are super bosses that have nothing to do with the main story outside the lore. One of the three (Sapphire) gets its head blasted off while wrecking Junon, and we don't encounter it in battle. Another (Diamond), we encounter briefly before it marches off to Midgar and we see what happens in FMV when a tank buster isn't mitigated. The third is this weird version of Ultimate that is part of the main story, but it's not; it's also an optional boss, but it's not.
With at least seven trials per expansion that award mounts, weapons, and other valuable primal drops along with the exclusion of Ultimate, I'd imagine we are getting Ruby, Emerald, Diamond, and Sapphire. If so, it is interesting that they are starting off with Ruby. Perhaps Sapphire will get the love it was denied in VII. It will be interesting to see certain abilities from Ruby and Emerald modernized into mechanics for FFXIV and should be fun. Diamond and Sapphire though, they would have a lox of flexibility with how to create their encounters. Will have to see. -
12-14-2019, 08:35 PMCrushnight
Thing is with FF7's weapons are they just going to use the ones from FF7 alone or the whole anthology, in which case Omega Weapon could be the final one. Of all the weapons that i am interested in fighting it is Sapphire Weapon i want to fight most since it was a glorified cutscene monster you had next to no interaction with it so the devs have near complete freedom with moves beyond it can swim and fires a laser from it's mouth. You at least fight all other weapons even if you didn't kill them(Diamond in international was fought)
Omega is not the Omega weapon they are separate entities within the series. -
12-14-2019, 10:17 PMlinayNone of what you said is evidence that Omega (or any other raid) is not canon. Simply not being mentioned does not mean it did not happen unless not being mentioned would create some plot hole (which could indicate a writing issue rather than something not being considered canon). Regardless, the reference to, not just Alexander, but also Omega, in the Twinning is definitely more than enough to further reinforce canonicity, not that they needed to be reinforced.Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
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12-14-2019, 10:36 PMDamianFataleDon't forget Sapphire and Jade weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
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12-14-2019, 11:45 PMBerteaux_BraumegainNo one ever remembers Sapphire Weapon. I bet Gaius will kill him in a cutscene. Poor guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by NessaWyvern
I wonder if Jade Weapon is well-known enough to be referenced.Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianFatale
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12-15-2019, 12:47 AMKaiserdracheJade Weapon will most likely be known only by FF7 Hardcore Fans or those able to understand japanese which played the japan only FF7 handy game where Jade Weapon plays a role in the Wutai War between Midgar and WutaiQuote:
Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain
It played never a role in the original game, nor even got mentioned.
The partwise huge information gaps between the original and the several spinoff games are a reason, why most of all FF7 fans are hoping that SE fills up the remake with as much lore and content from the spinoffs DoC, BC, CC and even for its end AC, so the the game will become the lore richest experience of the 7er universe you can think of, when Se plans on making each chapter a full standalone game worth around 60h, then theres alot of space to fill with lore, especially within the Midgar section.
That are easy lore fillers that Se just needs to reuse for the remake to ensure a good start, before they have to begin to come up with total new stuff, first implement the things you alheady have to explain things better and improve that way for the remake the overall storytelling of the game by alot -
12-15-2019, 02:42 AMBerteaux_BraumegainI'm not sure how you can write off every Raid as non-canon when the Crystal Tower Raid alone features extremely heavily in the plot Shadowbringers. To say nothing of Alexander and Omega.Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
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12-15-2019, 05:02 AMVahlnirYeah, every single raid is canon. If it is part of the game and its lore it is canon...which every raid has been so far. I'm not sure why they think otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain
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12-15-2019, 07:16 AMNezeriusA crossover doesn't necessarily have to happen in both games. Unless I've somehow missed the Phantasy Star Online 2 crossover event happening in FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by VenKitsune
That said, I don't think this is a FF7 crossover. -
12-15-2019, 08:03 AMKhalithar
I'm not surprised we're getting this. Any technological enemy from any Final Fantasy can easily be replicated in this game by just saying "allagans and/or garleans made it."
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12-15-2019, 08:25 AMDamianFataleBut the Jade Weapon is the first weapon to activate and the first that got destroyed. Judging by the way these raid series work, I predict that we will get FOUR weapons. Ruby, Emerald, Diamond, and Sapphire. Jade will most likely get left behind unfortunately, but just like Omega I COULD see Jade appearing in the future separately. Hell I doubt it, but it could be the other secret trial for all we know. Though my expectations are that Jade will probably just end up a reference somewhere or an enemy during 6.x.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache
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12-15-2019, 08:51 AMlinayThese would be the trial series, which should showcase three weapons. A fourth and a fifth weapon might still be seen as well, but most likely not for a trial.Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianFatale
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12-15-2019, 09:55 AMFlandBased on previous two expansions, only three of the seven are from the chronicle of new era. The rest are MSQ trial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
So we'd probably only get ruby, emerald, and diamond in 5.2, 5.4 and 5.5.
We'll get another MSQ trial in 5.3.
Unless they decided to change the pattern that is.