To begin with the why I have done a rework of SCH is because after playing him a lot during this expansion and remembering me how it was during ARR & HW, I just realized how this job has been destroyed like AST. It wasn’t so much apparent at first, but now I can see it.
To me, SCH was defined by three themes : Fairy, Poison and Strategy.
Fairies are still here but it lost so much. Already, no more Selene (didn’t summon her a single time during ShB) and Seraph came with new icons but same effect than Eos. What is the purpose of this ?
Fairies are not as helpful as it was before. Now, they are just adding an extra delay on 1/6 of our kit’s animation for no reason. Overall, we have too many restrictions/constraints giving me the feeling I don’t control my fairies anymore, nor I can lean on them.
I want to see them as partner again ! We need more interaction with them and we need to feel them in combat !!
Poison represented by DoT was the principal damage output of SCH. After putting our DoT, we could do some healing waiting to apply DoT again (we could still use Ruin though). I don’t necessarily want this for us today, but we need way more Poison actions. After all, we can’t denied we came from Arcanist class. Not only for the theme, but the dynamical aspect of SCH gameplay was about managing DoT.
Strategy was maybe the only part which has been developed along the years, but the different ultimate skills (60/70/80) are not well done in my opinion. They added more and more restrictions each time, preventing us to play a part of our kit for some. They are mostly undertuned and clunky/broken when arrived in game (I’am looking at you Dissipation / Fey Union). It took months or even years (4 years for Dissipation) to be fixed but they are still not as powerful as I would like to see considering the disadvantages they bring.
The strategy I envision is not really different from what we have, but just a kit with a better synergy and less useless/boring/clunky restrictions.
In the end, SCH needs to recover fully his different themes thus allowing to reform his complete identity. By doing that, his gameplay will be richer, deeper, more interesting and fun to play with than ever.
So now, allow me to present my version of SCH modifying the current iteration while bringing old actions from before plus new actions from mine.
I hope you will enjoy it and SE too !
You can access to the job via google sheet : Scholar
Or see the changelogs :
Actions :
Ruin (lvl 1)
- Potency has been reduced from 160 to 140.
Bio (lvl 2)
- Potency has been increased from 20 to 40.
- Duration has been reduced from 30s to 15s.
Physick (lvl 4)
- No change.
Summon Eos (lvl 6) [Rework]
- The action is now an ability (CD : 5s) and is distinct from Summon Selene.
- Eos possess now his proper gauge.
- Embrace has been renamed Embracing Dawn and increases Eos gauge by 5.
- Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination have been added back to Eos skills.
Summon Selene (lv 6) [Rework]
- The action is now an ability (CD : 5s) and is distinct from Summon Eos.
- Selene possess now his proper gauge.
- Embrace has been renamed Embracing Dusk and increases Selene gauge by 5.
- Whispering Dusk has been added to Selene skills. (CD : 60s)
- - Add periodically a shield applying cumulatively on teammate with a potency of 100 for 21s.
- Fey Wind has been added to Selene skills. (CD : 120s)
- - Increase the attack speed by 3% and movement speed by 25% of party members for 21s.
Resurrection (lvl 12)
- No change.
Miasma (lvl 18) [New]
- Deal unaspected damage with a potency of 100.
- Deal unaspected damage over time with a potency of 20 for 30s.
Bio II (lvl 26)
- [Trait] Still upgrades Bio to Bio II.
- Potency has been increased from 40 to 50.
- Duration has been reduced from 30s to 15s.
Adlo (lvl 30)
- Catalyze effect from critical Adlo takes now the damage first before Galvanize.
Succor (lvl 35)
- No change.
Ruin II (lvl 38)
- Potency has been reduced from 200 to 160.
Aetherflow (lvl 45)
- No change.
Energy Drain (lvl 45)
- It increases now the gauge of the current fairy Eos or Selene by 10.
Lustrate (lvl 45)
- It increases now the gauge of the current fairy Eos or Selene by 10.
Miasma II (lvl 46) [New]
- Deal unaspected damage to all nearby enemies with a potency of 125.
- Deal unaspected damage over time with a potency of 15 for 15s.
Sacred Soil (lvl 50)
- [Trait] Sacred Soil enhanced has been reworked (lvl 78 → lvl 68).
- Increases the duration from 15s to 20s.
- It increases now the gauge of the current fairy Eos or Selene by 10.
Bane (lvl 50) [New]
- Extends Arsenic and Cyanide effects affecting currently the target to nearby enemies.
- It increases the gauge of the current fairy Eos or Selene by 10.
- Cost 1 Aetherflow stack.
Indomitability (lvl 52)
- It increases now the gauge of the present fairy Eos or Selene by 10.
- Cost has been changed to be either 1 Aetherflow or 1 Angelic Aetherflow.
Broil (lvl 54)
- Potency has been reduced from 240 to 210.
Deployment Tactics (lvl 56)
[Trait] Deployment Tactics enhanced (lvl 78) [New].
- Extends the effect of Excogitation cast on self or target to party members but its potency is reduced by 60%.
Emergency Tactics (lvl 58)
- MP for next Adlo or Succor is reduced by 50%.
- Recast time has been increased from 15s to 30s.
Summon Seraph (lvl 80 --> lvl 60) [Rework]
- The ability cost 50/50 (Eos/Selene gauge) in combat and 0/0 out of combat and last 30s. (CD : 120s)
- Seraphic Veil untouched.
- Angel’s Song has been added to Seraph skills. (CD : 60s)
- - Gradually restore the HP of all nearby party members with a potency of 120 for 12s and add gradually a shield applying cumulatively on teammate with a potency of 100 for 12s.
- Angelic Benediction has been added to Seraph skills. (CD : 60s)
- - Grants you Angelic Aetherflow at 3rd degree (only in combat) until Seraph disappears.
- - Allows the execution of Adlo, Succor, Indomitability and Excogitation being a critical hit.
- - Cost 1 Angelic Aetherflow.
Excogitation (lvl 62)
- It increases now the gauge of the current fairy Eos or Selene by 10.
- Cost has been changed to be either 1 Aetherflow or 1 Angelic Aetherflow.
Arsenic (lvl 64) [New]
- [Trait] Upgrades Bio II to Arsenic.
- Deal unaspected damage over time with a potency of 60 for 15s.
Broil II (lvl 64)
- Potency has been reduced from 260 to 230.
Chain Stratagem (lvl 66)
- No change.
Fey Deployment (lvl 70) [New]
- Summon the 2nd fairy Eos or Selene while the 1st is already in combat. They cast together Embracing Aurora on the target being healed last by Physick or Science. Otherwise, they focus together the ally with the least HP.
- They can’t use their abilities and Seraph or Feo Ul can’t be summoned.
- Duration : 20s. (CD : 120s)
- The pet summoned by this ability leaves the battlefield at the end of the duration.
- Using Aetherflow abilities increase Eos and Selene gauges both.
Cancel Fey Deployment (lvl 70) [New]
- Cancel the current Fey Deployment and the pet summoned by this ability leaves the battlefield.
Embracing Aurora (lvl 70) [New]
- Restores target’s HP with a potency of 350.
- Increases Selene Gauge and Eos Gauge by 5.
Cyanide (lvl 72) [New]
- [Trait] Upgrades Miasma to Cyanide.
- Deal unaspected damage with a potency of 150.
- Deal unaspected damage over time with a potency of 40 for 30s.
Broil III (lvl 72)
- Potency has been reduced from 280 to 250.
Art of War (lvl 46 → lvl 74) [Rework]
- Upgrade Physick into Science.
- When you execute Science, it turns into Steel.
- When you execute Steel, it turns into Science.
- Duration : 15s. (CD : 90s)
Science (lvl 74) [New]
- Restores target’s HP with a potency of 600.
- This action can’t be assigned to a hotbar.
Steel (lvl 74) [New]
- Deal unexpected damage with a potency of 450.
- This action can’t be assigned to a hotbar.
Art of Poison (lvl 76) [New]
- Increase by 50% the potency of the current Arsenic, Cyanide and Miasma II affecting the target.
- Duration : Time remaining on original effects. (CD : 120s)
Summon Feo Ul (lvl 80) [New]
- The ability cost 80/80 (Eos/Selene gauge) in combat and 0/0 out of combat and last 30s. (CD : 180s)
- Dreamlike Enchantment has been added to Feo Ul skills.
- - Deal unaspected damage with a potency of 120 on the same target as you. Otherwise, on the target with the least HP.
- - Grants 1 Dreamlike stack to Feo Ul.
- Pixies Sneer has been added to Feo Ul skills. (CD : 60s)
- - Reduces by 5% the damage dealt by enemies around for 15s. The reduction is increased by 1% for each Dreamlike stack on Feo Ul.
- Pixie Malice has been added to Feo Ul skills. (CD : 60s)
- - Grants you Pixie Aetherflow at 3rd degree (only in combat) until Feo Ul disappears.
- - Executing Adlo and Succor grants Trapped Galvanize, a barrier exploding with Galvanize if destroyed and dealing damage to enemies in a radius of 5y.
- - Potency (Adlo) : 300
- - Potency (Succor) : 50
- - Cost 1 Pixie Aetherflow.
About the removed skills :
- Recitation has been changed for Angelic Benediction, a Seraph skill, and adjusted.
- Biolysis, Dissipation, Fey Blessing, Fey Union and Consolation have been removed.
About the different type of Aetherflow :
- There are three different Aetherflow : the one we are used to named Aetherflow, the one given by Seraph named Angelic Aetherflow and the one given by Feo Ul named Pixie Aetherflow.
- UI changes : Aetherflow color is green, Angelic Aetherflow color is blue, and Pixie Aetherflow color is red.
- When SCH gains one of the Aetherflow type, it takes the place of the current one.
So he can goes from 3 Aetherflow stacks to 3 Angelic Aetherflow stacks for example, which mean he lost his 3 Aetherflow stacks.
If you have any questions or comments, if you like it or not, feel free to share it there.
Edit : Final Adjustments :
- A new gauge has been added and shared between Angelic Aetherflow and Pixie Aetherflow.
- Cancel Fey Deployment has been removed.
- Fey Deployment has been adjusted and changed to Fey Reverie.
The 2nd fairy is appearing now with a dream form (it should resolve the lore issue).
It’s now possible to use Summon Seraph and Summon Feo Ul.
- Art of Poison has been adjusted.
Now, refreshing Arsenic, Cyanide or Miasma II will remove the Art of Poison effect respectively.
What's wrong with SCH and how I envision a rework
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12-07-2019, 11:22 PMCeasariaWhat's wrong with SCH and how I envision a rework
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12-08-2019, 06:42 AMLodi
Interesting ideas, and I fully support the idea of putting back shorter DoTs. Having to maintain two 15s dots sure feels more interesting than one for 30s.
And the Art of War CD is really original, I love the idea. -
12-08-2019, 04:35 PMEaMettIf I'm reading it right it's 15s for arsenic and 30s for cyanide. Would be a waste to have two dots on the same timer. Even the 15/30s aren't ideal. It should be about 20/30 imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodi
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12-08-2019, 04:40 PMBillythepancake
Overall, it's a neat idea, one thing though. Why get rid of recitation? That's the 1 thing about ShB SCH I like. REEEEE. And, maybe I missed it, but, what exactly is the point of having different types of aetherflow? I can understand different things recharging it, or charging them in a different way, but, why have 3 different types that just replace each other?
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12-08-2019, 05:17 PMSloprano
"You can activate Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumniation for his hotbar", I like this rework already. Slap on the Embrace and the Embrace-likes with potencies up to "noticable" or above levels and I'd give you full endorsement.
More dots and ways to manipulate are always welcome, in fact don't be afraid to add even more. Which is why I wonder why Bane and Art of Poison are so high up. It makes no difference at max level, but both when desynced and for someone playing first time think core tools that help soloing and non-healing bouts could be acquired earlier. Same with Aetherflow, pushing it back to level 6 with traits of Aetherdamme spread out so you get three stacks at level 30.
Having Art of War live up to it's name and making you think a bit further is a great change. Putting more difference in the fairies is a great plus and that run speed buff on Fey Wind, any chance for a return of Caress?. Most fun surprise is definitly Feo Ul and how we could convice them to join us (as in we don't summon her from the aether but jealousy rivalry between them and Lily is so strong they can't bear being out at the same time) with a Joker-ish skillset of bombs and Feo Ul's sneering laughter. What monster does not feel their body fill with burning shame when mocked by a pixie? Filling the ears of your enemeis with derisive scorn of a pixies snicker. Their bodies shall become clumsy and foolish, easily struck and confidence shall be leeched from their muscles, weakning their blows.
I can join with lamentation for Dissipation, but only if Embrace, or Embraces was powerful as they used to be. Reason I could see to remove Recitation would be to remove Catalyze as we can't force crit anymore, but that seems to be still in. Maybe deliberate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billythepancake
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12-08-2019, 11:25 PMCeasariaAs Eamett said, SCH would have one DoT at 15s (Bio --> Bio II --> Arsenic) and one at 30s (Miasma --> Cyanide).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodi
Player would use his third DoT Miasma II instead of Ruin II to weave, but if after he has to weave again then he should use Ruin II (Art of War can serve this purpose too because of the spells Science and Steel being instant).
For Art of War, it's a reference to Alka Zolka. Maybe I don't have the right names in english, but in french he says "Science et Acier" which is translated as "Science and Steel". Thanks for the appreciation !
In fact, Recitation (renamed Angelic Benediction) is still here and you have 3 charges with Seraph :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Billythepancake
It's a good point you mention here about the 3 types of Aetherflow. I was thinking about separating the normal Aetherflow from the two others, but because I wanted Angelic Aetherflow and Pixie Aetherflow to be powerful, I had to find a counterpart. I think the other reason is because I didn't want player be bothered with two different Aetherflow at the same time. I had maybe other reasons but I don't remember for now. I will think about it, thanks.
I can understand for the Embrace actions being not powerful as it was before. I could maybe up the potency but it will be not much. If you have noticed, with Fey Deployment, you can guide the heal of Embracing Aurora with your Medecine/Science as it was before with macro. Maybe I should do it to with Embrace from Eos and Selene ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloprano
I see, you want more actions accessible at low levels. I will look into it if it's possible without creating a gap in leveling process.
About Feo Ul, it was what I was hoping for Shadowbringers for SCH. I hope, for the next expansion we will get her. There is really something to do with Pixies !
Thanks for your comment ! -
12-09-2019, 03:18 AMLethros
Maybe 15 and 30 second DOTs would be good, I'm not against it, but I also wondered about them being less aligned. Like a more offset fraction like the old 18/24/30 spell durations. Not necessarily those lengths, but the durations as they deviate from each other in their timings as they are cast throughout the duration of an encounter. 1/2 is a simple timing fraction that would be very consistent, although I think still much better than only one spell, or two at the same duration (more like one), but wouldn't involve as much monitoring/focus to maintain and be engaged with as a less aligned timing. Thinking of possibilities like 15/18, 15/21, 18/21, 18/24, 21/24, 21/27, 24/30, .... But while considering alignment with cooldowns I thought of an unlikely hybrid alternative with three DOTs. Say if two were 15 seconds and 30 seconds, quite simple, perhaps at a high level you unlock a third, except it doesn't really align well like the other two. Maybe like 12 seconds, 21-27, or even something greater than 30 seconds. But especially if longer than 30 seconds I think maybe the third should be a less major damage contribution. Such a timing that in maintaining their up time a little more attention giving/thought is involved on top of an otherwise consistent, habitual, and simple two DOT operation. Or at least the minimum amount of attention/thought for maintaining them is increased a bit.
Idk, maybe 15 and 30 is fine -
12-09-2019, 09:15 PMWaxSw
Very interesting ideas, I'd prefer to play something like that more than Sch's current iteration tbh
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12-11-2019, 09:40 PMGrimGale
I would love some mechanics for strategy beyond the "Press 1 button and go" that's chain stratagem.
For example, giving the SCH some sort of build up in that department.
New skill: Tactical Observation- Scholar gives a buff to an ally or herself, increasing target's chance to get critically healed by the Scholar by X%. When the target strikes an enemy with a critical strike, he or she applies the "Exposed Weakness" debuff which last for 5 seconds and only the SCH can see on the enemy. It lasts until deactivated, like the Dancer's DP.
Changed skill: Energy drain is changed to Analyse, which now causes no damage but restores 5% MP. If the target has the "Exposed weakness" debuff, you remove said debuff and give yourself a buff called Tactical Knowledge, which can stack up to three times. Doing that also restores X% extra MP.
Chaged skill: Chain Stratagem: Requires three stacks of Tactical Knowledge. Increases critical hits damage and rate by 15% for 10s.
The idea here is that the Scholar would use one team member to find out the enemy' s weak spots. Every time the ally the SCH is observing crits, it leaves a window in which the SCH can gather data with Analyse. Then, once enough battle data is gathered, the SCH can use it to call a group stratagem. -
12-12-2019, 01:44 AMCeasariaHmm, I can understand the reason but if I do maybe I should reduce the amount of work in another part of the kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethros
Anyways, Miasma II (duration 12s) do the thing you want even if it's used only for weaving/moving when there is no better possibilities.
Maybe I could try to add an additional effect to Miasma II to incitate to use it more in some case, hmmm. Ty, I will think about it.
If I have succeeded to create/rework a job which give a such feeling, then I can say I'am very satisfied ^^ Thanks !Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxSw
It's not that bad. Tactical Observation could serve as a new base to enhance existing actions as you mentionned with Energy Drain and Chain Stratagem. I don't know if I would do it that way but there is something to explore there (maybe could be even a mechanic for a new job). Thanks for the idea !Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimGale
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12-19-2019, 09:34 PMMarikya
I would pref. this 100x over the current SCH.
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12-20-2019, 12:37 AMIllyaPrisma
I personally don’t understand why a SCH reword is necessary... you say “they took so much stuff away from the fairy”, but Selene was already very niche and hardly used prior to ShB. The Fairy is also an inherently overpowered aspect of SCH, and has been a troublesome point of balance for SE. An infinite, independent regen from a tool that also provides displacement healing and a powerful cooldowns is not weak....
Sch is still the strongest healer, partially due to how broken Sacred Soil is right now, but a rework just isn’t necessary.
You want more damaging abilities? SE doesn’t want that for healers. Any of them. You get 1 spam GCD, 1 DoT, and 1 AoE. Theory crafting possible solutions to a job that is functioning quite well at the moment seems silly. -
12-20-2019, 12:42 AMIllyaPrisma
I personally don’t understand why a SCH reword is necessary... you say “they took so much stuff away from the fairy”, but Selene was already very niche and hardly used prior to ShB. The Fairy is also an inherently overpowered aspect of SCH, and has been a troublesome point of balance for SE. An infinite, independent regen from a tool that also provides displacement healing and powerful cooldowns is not weak....
Sch is still the strongest healer, partially due to how broken Sacred Soil is right now, but a rework just isn’t necessary.
You want more damaging abilities? SE doesn’t want that for healers. Any of them. You get 1 spam GCD, 1 DoT, and 1 AoE. Theory crafting possible solutions to a job that is functioning quite well at the moment seems silly. -
12-20-2019, 12:52 AMBillythepancakeYou know what else was niche? Titan on SMN. Outside of some solo instances, you would never use him. (And even then it was hardly worth using) but come ShB they don't have Titan removed, they got to keep him so why cant we keep Selene? If the problem is that she's too niche then give her a moveset that isn't niche, or give her more content where you can take advantage of her moveset.Quote:
Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma
I genuinely don't see how it was "op", it allowed the 2 healers heal less, but, that's the entire point. Nerfing it to the point where it does practically nothing makes it nothing more than a glorified oGCD that barely works because of the ridiculous delay.
If SE doesn't want more damage abilities, then give healers more to do when there's no healing to do. DPS abilities make the most sense because this is a game where DPS is the only thing that matters, you spend 80-90% of your time as a healer DPSing, so adding more DPS abilities would be the simplest, but please, I'm all for something else to fill that time, because spamming 1 1000 times gets old real fast. -
12-20-2019, 01:58 AMIllyaPrisma
“Practically nothing”. Okay buddy...
I’m dumbfounded by people who think the fairy is weak. The endless regen that alleviates healing for both healers... and yet people are still confused when they see fairy nerfs... this is the weakest iteration of the fairy so far, and it’s still incredibly strong.
Healers have basic DPS tools. Sorry to inform you of this. Tanks also have basic DPS tools, with one streamlined combo, and only a few damaging cooldowns. Homogenization is the current balancing platform SE is exploring for healers. You can’t give a bunch of fancy new tools to SCH to make the job more exciting, without giving similar tools to the other two. -
12-20-2019, 02:52 AMGrimoire-MThe Healer forum has been clamouring for reworks since 5.0, this is an assumption you should have been able to make upon reading this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma
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12-20-2019, 03:06 AMBillythepancake
3k hp is practically nothing when everyone is rocking 90k+ and up with tanks at 130k and you have no say on who she heals. Is she going to hell the tank who is taking autos and could actually use the heal or is she going to heal the dps missing 100 hp? Hell if I know I have no say. The only content where her embrace makes a visible, sizable, difference is in low level content where the tanks are already taking so little damage that no other healer would ever need to do anything other than stop once every 2-3 minutes to use an oGCD, or if they don't have one yet, their weakest heal. wow so broken. When will the fairy not be OP? When they're healing for 0? When they're hurting themselves by just existing? And the weak thing doesn't even just refer to her embrace being pathetic, it's the fact they also decided to make all of her abilities oGCDs AND not responsive. But I guess the fairy actually using abilities when you told her was also op? Imagine, pressing a button and an ability happening instantly, so broken.
If you want to compare healers to tanks, I've recently gotten GNB to 80, and it's night and day compared to any healer. Yes they have a basic 1-2-3 combo, but there's so much to do and track outside of that combo I always feel engaged. If they can have that on top of their tank buttons I don't see why healers can't handle more broil/malefic/glare.
I can't think of any SCH that would deny WHM/AST any new tools to play around with, but this thread was about SCH so of course people are focusing on SCH. I'd 100% be okay with WHM and AST getting more to do (or in AST's case, having their card system fixed which seems to be the main problem with them) -
12-20-2019, 03:29 AMCrimsonGunner1 skill isn't basic dps tools or a combo tanks got and if tanks got what the healers got ,you won't find tanks in party finders at all that will gladly play and press one button the entire run.Quote:
Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma
as for fairy nerfs comment, people are confused cause it isn't buffs/nerfs people want SE to give to the fairy, its to actually fix her responses and delays/ghosting issues which it didn't do or even made a reply about said issues.
and lastly do you think that people wish to give shiny new tools just for scholars,read the forum and threads here and you will see no one here asks for just 1 healer,all 3 need love from SE while WHM has a somewhat decent kit compare to the other 2 it doesn't mean its good, it still need some more love put in his kit. -
12-20-2019, 03:58 AMIllyaPrisma
SE has shown they want to avoid any sort of complexity with Healer DPS, regardless of what forum ragers cry about. Give SCH and the other two more options for damage dealing, and all of sudden:
“Where’s your Shadowflare?”
“You aren’t refreshing all of your DoTs or you’re clipping too much”
“You aren’t using your DPS skills properly”
You give healers better more intricate tools for dealing damage, and sure it will make things more fun. But it also raises the expectation for Healers to not only DPS, but optimize their DPS efficiently. Granted, myself and many others would enjoy this optimization, but that does not align with SEs current goals. -
12-20-2019, 04:10 AMWaxSwEmbrace alleviates nothing, 3k hp on a target that you cannot choose is meaningless when any single target mechanic hits for way more than that, it doesnt even come close to cover a quarter of the damage of auto attacks in savage/ultimate, the fairy is only valuable right now for their cooldowns (which doesn't give sch any advante since they are normal cds), seraph (which again, any extra advantage to sch since its a normal ogcd) and dissipation. I remember how in Sb you had to think a bit when to use dissipation but right now eos/selene is so weak that you can use dissipation on cooldown without almost any drawback.Quote:
Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma
Tanks have a combo, healers doesnt have any, tanks have damaging cds, healers doesnt have any (with the exception of ed) if both must have the same "basic dps tools" then healers should be asking for those tools that we are missing, Where is my requiescant window? Where is no mercy? inner release? where is my 1-2-3 combo?
And note I've been saying healers, not sch, because we want that treatment to all the healers not only scholars. -
12-20-2019, 04:32 AMCrimsonGunneragain read the forums, people want more during downtime or have increased healing uptime which isn't just dps options.people cover all sorts of skills and abilities from the far end of the spectrums.Quote:
Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma
from all sorts of dps,buffs and debuffs to give for healers so they could be more involved then just be a healing bot that wait for someone to receive an ouchie and lets say thats all healers can do even then the healing downtimes are so low and short that it doesn't justify such approach.it was all covered from giving more skills to healer up until changing encounter and battle designs.
balance is fine among all healers ,we all agree that all 3 deserve to be equal and share the spotlight but we want all 3 to be fun to play as well and not dull with gameplay issues. -
12-20-2019, 07:53 AMVolkaj
A few mechanicals quirks, or just my 2c.
Summon Seraph has a 120s cooldown, and Angelic Benediction has a 60s cooldown.
Since Angelic Benediction is only useable while Seraph is up, this makes Angelic Benediction's effective cooldown 120s. Unless this is intended to be on cooldown with the 3 other fairy abilities, which either also have long cooldowns (120s) or would require massive gauge (Feo Ul).
Why would you ever want to use Cancel Fey Deployment? As worded, it would put both fairies in play and lock their abilities out, while granting an extra heal on Physick/Science. There doesn't seem to be a reason to cancel it. The current Fey Union locks your fairy in place, locks it on a specific target and has a very short cooldown. It is cancellable because you might need to move it or change target. You do not have this problem with Fey Deployment.
Due to the way DoT snapshot in this game, Art of Poison is very poweful. This is because, as worded, the effect will compound:
Cyanide + Arsenic + Miasma II under raid buffs (lets assume a low 10%) = 126 per tick
126 * 1.5 = ~189 per tick (Art of Poison 1)
189 * 1.5 = ~284 per tick (After 2 minutes, Art of Poison 2, keeping DoTs active the whole time)
284 * 1.5 = ~426 per tick (Art of Poison 3)
The Science/Steel combo is pretty strange, because it would effectively be another movement tool. 15s duration translates into 3 Sciences and 3 Steels. Using 1 Science and 1 Steel is worse DPS-wise than one Broil III, but better than Miasma II and Ruin II. You wouldn't use it in heal-intensive situations because 'spamming' Adlo (making sure the shield breaks before-reapply) would be more effective, and you still get the same MP efficiency as Physick (1 MP = 1 heal potency).
As worded, it seems like you will always have enough gauge to use both Seraph and Feo Ul on cooldown. Embrace generate 5 per cast, 20 casts per minute for 100 gauge + 30 from Aetherflow actions gives 130 per minute. Seraph has a 2 minutes cooldown and takes 100 (50 per fairy) for 50 per minute. Feo Ul has a 3 minutes cooldown and takes 160 (80 per fairy) for ~54 per minute. 50 + 54 = 104 < 130.
Sorry if I got any of the math horribly wrong. -
12-20-2019, 10:01 AMKabzyThis whole “give one give all” thing is a huge part of the problem in the first place. If you couldn’t handle DoTs, clipping etc you play WHM, the basic bee of the three.Quote:
Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma
Giving SCH some of its past identity back doesn’t mean everyone needs to get the same things. Obviously if SCH was given more DoTs, there would be an expectation that their other DPS tools would be heavily nerfed in power. Nobody is asking for SCH to be OP, they’re asking for some fun back. BACK being the key word there. -
12-21-2019, 02:25 AMCeasaria- Imagine Angelic Benediction with 120s cooldown. Let's say I use Summon Seraph at 1 min and 3 min in the fight, and Angelic Benediction at 1 min 20. You see I could only use it the next time between 3 min 20 and 3 min 30.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkaj
If you delay too much this ability and want to use Summon Seraph as quick as CD is up, you may loose you Angelic Benediction.
Of course what I want is being able to use Angelic Benediction during all the time Seraph is summoned and everytime I call her as soon as she is ready.
- The fact I want to cancel Fey Deployment is to use principly Summon Seraph, Summon Feo Ul or using a fairy ability now. I don't want to have the restriction to wait for Fey Deployment to end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkaj
- Hmmm, not sure if I have understand what you say about Art of Poison, but in no case, it become stronger over the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkaj
Your current DoT become stronger on the target who you applied Art of Poison. You can see it as a debuff on your target instead of a buff on you. And it works only on the effective DoT. When they end or are refreshed, Art of Poison doesn't work anymore on those DoT until you apply again Art of Poison the next time.
- Yes for Science/Steel, I have looked at Afflatus from WHM for this. They lose a bit of dps while doing this but they can move and are doing good healing. If you think about efficiency heal/dps, it's worth to use Science/Steel if the fight require some mono healing and moving. It's better than the use of Regen from the co healer plus you aside using Broil III.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkaj
- You can remove ~ 6 cast every 2 minutes because of their abilities which will prevent the fairy to cast Embrace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkaj
In the world of dps optimization, you will summon Feo Ul prepull, like maybe 5 sec before the start.
After she disappears, the goal is to have the possibility to summon Seraph around 1 min after.
Then after Seraph disappears, it left 1 min before Feo Ul is up again. You have to use Fey Deployment to increase your gauge gain (if not did before).
During the moment where you Summon Feo Ul around 3 min, you should have 20/20 left if everything is going good.
This 20/20 is here to prevent long cutscene or disadvantageous moments avoiding you to increase you gauge.
PS : I can put my mathematical operations here if you want.
Thanks for your opinion, I hope I have answered some of your concerns. Tell me if you need more explanations ^^ -
12-21-2019, 11:14 AMVolkaj
P.S. Really sorry for cutting the quotes, post was getting too long (3000 chars) :(
Accounting for leeway in this manner gives a 90s cooldown. And realistically, the average is still 120s since you must've waited until the end of Seraph's duration for that to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
It seems simpler to me to have Summon Seraph/Feo Ul just cancel the effect, rather than requiring a separate skill. Just like using any fairy skill or summoning Seraph right now in ShB cancels Fey Union.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
As worded, this does not mention any extra debuff. You have to keep in mind that when DoTs are refreshed, they always keep their current properties. This is called DoT snapshotting. This is why the "current" part of Art of Poison's description leads to this conclusion; you increase the current potency of your DoTs, which they keep when refreshed.Quote:
Art of Poison
Increase by 50% the potency of the current Arsenic, Cyanide and Miasma II affecting the target.
Duration: Time remaining on the original effects.
WHM Lilies are often kept until needed. Science/Steel, as designed, would not work this way. It would replace uses of Adloquium that are for pure healing rather than shielding (pretty rare), and you'd often only need the first Science/Steel combo for that. Anecdotal evidence: in all my runs of O8-12S and E1-E4S I do not recall having ever used Adlo outside emergencies or shielding for Deployment Tactics. Both cases which would not be covered by Science/Steel. As a movement tool it would be more potent than Miasma II only if you needed to move for a full 2 GCDs. That does happen, but most of the time you can slidecast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
Fairy skills are OGCDs, and Embrace is instant cast. There should be no missing Embraces from fairy skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
T: 0, Prepull Feo Ul, 180s cooldownQuote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
T: 30, Feo Ul leaves. Keep Eos up for 30s = 10 Embraces = 50 gauge.
T: 60, Swap to Selene for 30s = 10 Embraces = 50 gauge.
T: 90, This is enough for Seraph. Summon Seraph, 90s left on Feo Ul.
T: 120, Seraph leaves, 60s left on Feo Ul. Keep Selene up for 30s = 10 Embraces = 50 gauge.
T: 150, Swap to Eos for 30s = 10 Embraces = 50 gauge.
T: 180, Summon Feo Ul.
From fairy actions alone you will have 100 gauge at this point, but 180s is also 3 full Aetherflow stacks,
or 90 gauge. Substracting what you're missing for Feo Ul, you're left with 30, or an average of 15 per fairy. This is without using Fey Deployment, which effectively doubles your gauge generation. -
12-21-2019, 01:58 PMEloah
I'll have to examine this a bit more when my cold does it's own form of "Dissipation", lol. I can't say whether this is a good direction or not just yet, but I can say one thing, well maybe two.
First, there is only 1 fairy, I dont know why people always forget that. So a move that relays on summoning multiple isn't a good addition since that isn't something SCHs do. It's specific to their lore, the Seraph is just another form she takes. So skills like "Fey Deployment" or "Summon Feo Ul" are not good skills to have. I am okay for more glamour options, which are what Eos and Selene are right now.
And second, again someone tries to rework SCH and doesn't add Meltdown, grrr...
Also a few bonuses for now. One I would add Recitation back in in its original form, since by removing it you are actually taking away from SCHs tactical aspect some. Second, I would change the name for either Art or War or Art of Poison, Since in Japanese, Art of War's name is actually Poisoning Art. And last I would find different names for the upgraded Poisons, Science, and Steel. The poison names feel too "real" and the other names feel too out of place. Why not something like Pox or Helix for poisons and something as simple as Physick II and dare I say Meltdown, lol. Also why not just keep the name Biolysis? -
01-01-2020, 01:52 AMCeasaria- In fact I could but it doesn't really matter, since we don't have that for Consolation which has 30s cd (but I agree that 45s cd would work too which would lead to 90s cd for my fairy skills).Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkaj
- The problem is how I have formulated my skills. Summoning Seraph and Feo Ul require to call back the current fairy. The problem is I have 2 fairies with Fey Deployment, so I would need to add extra text for this...Hmm regarding Eloah comment ^^' about Lily, I will try to adjust the text so as you say, we will no need Cancel Fey Deployment anymore.
- "This is called DoT snapshotting", oohhhh, okay I didn't know that O_O, oops.
I will adjust this skill too then.
- Hmm, you are maybe right. I still have the old Embrace in mind where she took time to cast it. My bad. Anyway, I'm not sure if I will adjust the gain somewhere. I think, It's fine to have more ressources in stock in case.
- I understand this (and forgot too). I will try to adjust that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
- What do you want to do with Meltdown ? Where does it come from ?
- Recitation has been moved to Seraph skill. It's maybe more restricted to access but you have 3 uses. For Poison names, I have just taken those from FFIX ^^
Edit : Final Adjustments :
- A new gauge has been added and shared between Angelic Aetherflow and Pixie Aetherflow.
- Cancel Fey Deployment has been removed.
- Fey Deployment has been adjusted and changed to Fey Reverie.
The 2nd fairy is appearing now with a dream form (it should resolve the lore issue).
It’s now possible to use Summon Seraph and Summon Feo Ul.
- Art of Poison has been adjusted.
Now, refreshing Arsenic, Cyanide or Miasma II will remove the Art of Poison effect respectively.