so been wanting to make a Tank but im scared. i dont wanna be that fail tank that pulls like grandma. i am coming from WoW and I know how much I hated getting stuck with some n00b tank. The ones that turn whats normally a 10 min dungeon run into a 30 min one. I dont want to be that guy here because its rude to the other 3 people to make runs take longer. However I have noticed dungeon maps arent like the ones in WoW that show you where to go. I have even noticed some dungeons require bosses to be killed in certain orders cause they drop keys to different rooms. How are you supposed to know where to go without a map? Also I plan on making a Paladin so whats the optimal number of mobs I need to be pulling that wont get me killed but also wont piss off the rest of the party for not being fast enough. Finally do bosses ever get mechanics I need to watch out for cause they could one shot me?
new player with tank questions
Printable View
-
12-07-2019, 06:50 AMThomasMGPnew player with tank questions
-
12-07-2019, 07:17 AMSekuThe dungeons after around 50 or 60 are rail road (only one way to go). When you do the dungeon it'll unlock. Keep a defensive cool down up per mob pack and keep your gear up to date. For the ones that do have keys and ect you'll have to learn where to pick them up at.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasMGP
-
12-07-2019, 07:51 AMCanadane
Yeah the small handful of fun and unique dungeons end pretty quickly.
You’ll find that there’s just a single path in the majority of dungeons. The few that do give you choices normally don’t gate you too badly.
I kinda wish we had more labyrinth type places... -
12-07-2019, 09:17 AMAllooutrick
When you pull one enemy, all mobs near it will get aggro as well. Most of the time you won't be able to pull precise numbers of mobs. Rather, you'll be pulling precise packs of them.
My general rule has been if you're new to a dungeon just say so. You may even have someone with plenty of tank experience leveling another class. They will be invaluable. Aside from that, if you're unsure about a dungeon, try pulling only the first pack of mobs and gauge it from there. If the damage is negligible then try pulling two packs. It's when you start going wall to wall that things can get sketchy.
Normal enemies tend to not have any tank busters. You'll just need to learn the ones that do. Practically all bosses have one or more tank busters. You'll just need to recognize the skill name when the boss begins to cast it. For casual content it's not so bad so long as you keep a defensive skill up and not pop them all at once.
Good luck and happy tanking. -
12-09-2019, 12:36 AMSnowVix
don't pop more than one defensive at once (with some exceptions) because damage reduction from multiple sources gives reduced benefits - if you pop both Rampart (10% damage reduction) and your 30% damage reduction, you don't get 40% damage reduction, you get ~36% damage reduction (if i recall the math correctly)
-
12-09-2019, 02:53 AMCelaeno
Former WoW Tank/Healer. The big changes are you'll always want to use at least 1 CD per pull, stacking only certain ones so not to have all them missing when you need them. Being able to dodge avoidable dmg is big, less you take the more the healer can do other things, same goes with knowing when to use CDs to reduce dmg on Tank/Group busters. That comes with trial and error as I have learned while leveling.
Another big thing was always telling the group I was new to the dungeon for first time run. Always asked for any key mechanics I should watch out for. Example being don't stand near X position, or beware of Knockback that can send you off the edge (Looking at you Titan).
The biggest thing is finding the Tank that works for you. Each one plays a bit different and isn't a 100% it works for you right off the bat. Warrior didn't feel right for me til around the 30 mark, DRK still doesn't feel right and thats just about to hit 60, PLD feels solid like a traditional tank with the shield, and GNB I haven't used yet but went through the Job Tutorial obtaining the soul stone for it. Each tank has ups and downs, different gauges, and different cooldowns and what they do. So would be good to go over what they have and playing them each for a bit to see which one you like the looks and feel of.
There is also a Map in the form of the mini map on the radar in the corner of your screen. The full normal Map is blanked out, but most dungeons are just linear follow through Zone A to get to Zone B, etc... That starts around Heavensward. Though same thing with most dungeons in ARR, I didn't have much trouble navigating and when I did I just followed the others and they guided me through to where I needed to tank next. Doing those dungeons as DPS/Heals should give you all the clues you need as well to be able to tank them just fine for direction.
Have yet to meet anyone to tell me to leave or I suck as a Tank for not knowing mechanics or my way around. I have been given criticism to help improve my gameplay, and nudges from the healers that tell me they can handle more dmg output to my HP if I wanted to pull 2 or more packs. Those first pulls you do will determine how competent of a group you have is for dealing in AoE or ST. Just remember not all classes have AoE in low dungeons so its up to you to do most of the AoE even on the small pulls. Don't have to worry about Aggro generation as long as you have your tank stance on (Grit, Oath, etc...).
My biggest tip though, dive in, cause dipping your toe won't help you overcome any doubts or fears. It's how I started trying out different jobs and now have nearly all them at the 50 mark, and a good chunk sitting at the 60 mark. Never hurts to fail unless you give up right away. You have nothing to lose, only things to gain. Also getting friends or members of your FC to be your healer or guides as dps helps too, but I did all my experiences Solo. -
12-13-2019, 05:36 PMMugiLulu
All the replies so far have been great, I just want to mention that while you're running casual content/leveling dungeons and stuff you can "abuse" some situational abilities to make your life substantially easier.
Every tank has an invulnerability CD you will almost never use unless you're raiding or doing ex trials, they give you 8-10 seconds of invulnerability you can use for bigger pulls without putting too much stress on your healer.
Arm's Length is also nice for trash pulls, again you won't need it unless you're doing raid or trials, and it's really nice for bigger pulls because it gives a slow debuff to all enemies that attack you.
Also, you won't know it the first time you go in a dungeon, but if you pay attention to what surrounds you, you'll start noticing some dungeons have little details that help you manage packs, like environmental damage that would damage you also putting debuffs on mobs and such.
Good luck and happy tanking :3 -
12-14-2019, 07:55 AMValic
Just remember, you're a blue dps. The only difference between you and a dps is a toggle to hold aggro, your healers actually cares about your health bar, and you have even less mechanics to do than the majority of your group(s). Confidence is key to tanking, and failing isn't the end of any group unless you don't try again and learn to progress.
-
12-14-2019, 08:14 AMAsbelLahntThis is going to be nitpicky, so please know I'm simply wanting to avoid a rough situation. From what MugiLulu said, they are exactly right for Paladin. Your Hallowed Ground is invulnerability, and you take no damage. All the other tanks have the invulnerable ability work in other ways that ends up being pretty tight on your healer. Since you're leveling PLD, you can happily use Hallowed Ground in leveling content as you would like, no worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by MugiLulu
A couple extra caveats to remember: on top of Arm's Length actually being a defensive cooldown to use, Reprisal is also a defensive cooldown for you in dungeons. Our main message with talking about those are to keep the thought of defensive cooldowns in your mind during content to hopefully help you remember to activate them during the pulls, especially.
A big thing I see a lot of tanks do (and extend this to heals and dps on some of their abilities for some weird reason) are activating some abilities first, before anything else. Grab an enemy with Shield Lob, use your AoE on all of them to make sure you aggro them all, hit one of your defensive cooldowns, run to the next mob, Shield Lob one of them, AoE that new pack, AoE all of them together, check if you've lost aggro on a baddie or two and go over to those and AoE them back into your focus, check how much time is left on your first defensive cooldown, throw another one up if it's dropped off, or has a second left, but only if there's still a majority of the pack with half health, continue AoE'ing to your hearts content.
I realize that sounds like quite a few steps, but it's what you'll find yourself doing more and more as you play the class.
As you get through the 34-50 dungeons, they're...sometimes not great to tanks, and you pull too much accidentally, or don't expect some rando's to walk through and really add a little too much to the pull. Those ones are where you have to experience it to start memorizing it, but you don't run into it often. Most of the time, if you say at the beginning that you're still learning tanking, and that you're open to feedback, players are rather understanding, and can tell you "You can pull more here" at some points. And then, if it turns out to be too much, and you all die, it's on the person that suggested to pull more, and they tend to laugh it off. -
12-14-2019, 11:44 AMEnkidoh
Hallowed Ground is not complete invincibility though, alhough it's unclear exactly what sort of damage it no-sells and what it doesn't, normal physical attacks at least are (making it somewhat like the PLD's old 2 hour ability 'Invincible' in FFXI). In fact, it's shameful of me to admit it but it was for this reason for much of my career as a PLD here in FFXIV I actually rarely used it, so used to keeping it as a last resort in FFXI was I (and especially because in FFXI it was basically a giant 'hate magnet' - it generated the highest amount of enmity out of any ability in the game, save for WHM's 2 hour Benediction, not to mention it had a two-hour long cooldown), and I have to keep reminding myself "it is not the same here, it's not the same ability, you're fine to use it when you need to!"
Either way, I concur with the above about not being afraid to use Hallowed Ground liberally, especially when you get tons of trash mobs link which can quickly whittle your HP down. It can be a downright lifesaver at times. -
12-14-2019, 12:05 PMxJimmehx
Most bosses get a tank buster and a cleave. Tank busters will kill you if you arent mitigating with a cool down and nearly/fully topped off. Cleaves are frontal attacks that are aimed at you. If you stand near a party member and get cleaved, they do too and they dont have the hp or defense you do. They'll likely die.
There are other mechanics. Some bosses require tank swapping to prevent debuff stacks from getting too high on one tank.
Your best bet is to know the fight before hand. Read a guide on what moves each boss uses and remember what they do and how they need to be handled.
Because gear changes, stats changes, and party make up are never the same. We cannot tell you how many to pull. It varies. As one user mentioned, you pull packs that are tethered. You cant really pull a specific number of mobs.
I would pull small and add more until you feel that you cant safely pull any more. If the healer is sitting at full mp and not healing much, pull. If you are barely losing hp, pull. If your'e running in a pug, its best to have communication and to ask "how many?" "is this too much?" "too little?" Its not as hard as it seems. If you sneeze, you have full aggro these days. If your bar is going down faster than your healer can raise it, you pulled too much. :P