Extreme/Savage/Synced roulettes

Hello,

I had a little idea, nothing to freak out over, just something to consider.

I notice a lot of people have no problems doing dungeons for exp, but then other types of content seems to be completely dead.

I would like to propose the idea, of adding:

-Extreme Primal Roulette
(Synced, no echo, pre-made parties/and solo-party queue'd)

-Savage Raid Roulette
(Synced, no echo, pre-made/solo-party queue, Coil of Bahamut included)

and

-Minimum Item level Roulette.
(could be similar to mentor roulette, but you can queue in pre-made parties, or by queueing solo/random amount of party members.)



Details:

Possible Rewards Ideas:
-1 full level of exp
-300 Tomes of content type
-50 tomes of current weekly cap type
-10,000+ gil


Possible Requirements Ideas:
-Can queue solo (content will be based on your item level)
-Can queue in partial party
-Can queue in full party



Could also offer other rewards as well. I personally dont see a reason why old content that isnt a dungeon has to be dead. The rewards simply just arent there. Dungeons are getting done every day. I'm aware dungeons are more "easy" and everything, but the rewards are also worthwhile, so maybe if enough a reward is added to older content that isnt dungeons, people might be more interested. Its just an idea. Could also consider sycned but with echo too. Just something to breathe a little life into more types of content.



****************************************************************
The community is growing stale, and doing only current content, while the options for leveling is extremely limited. People also are beginning to only focus on being fast, but also lazy, and I feel this could breathe some life into old content, while also rejuvenate the community.


Just an idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Savage Roullete is a big nope from me, people barely are able to push their buttons in dungeons and PF, automatching these people in a situation that requires actual awarness sounds like a great waste of time

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Infindox

I'd like to see a Roulette include Binding Coils, but Mentor Roulette already gets synced Extremes and they are usually a mess. If it was a HUGE reward I could see it, but I'd want it to be like Expert Roulette and change often as it does. (Ex: A Extreme Roulette now would be Titania EX, Innocence, or Hades. Next patch knock out older ones.)

Savage .... No.

---

Mentor roulette is not the same concept. Most extreme primals are trivial, and are cleared easy with a mentor who.. actually mentors.



And this is what I mean by the community is going stale. Even the thought of putting incentive behind content that is beyond the simplest of tasks, is met with "no"

We need to encourage the community to work together, and become successful again. Something to drive players to improve, and want to do better, not only at rotations and mechanics, but teamwork, and motivation.


If we arent going to gate entry to harder content with some solo test, and players can go from just pressing one attack or being half afk the entire dungeon, to right into extreme and savage, the community is only going to continue to degrade.

Lastly, Coil is set at the same difficulty as Savage. I did coil when it was new, and I do savage when it is new, they are the same "difficulty."

Savage Roullete is a big nope from me, people barely are able to push their buttons in dungeons and PF, automatching these people in a situation that requires actual awarness sounds like a great waste of time

I'd like to see a Roulette include Binding Coils, but Mentor Roulette already gets synced Extremes and they are usually a mess. If it was a HUGE reward I could see it, but I'd want it to be like Expert Roulette and change often as it does. (Ex: A Extreme Roulette now would be Titania EX, Innocence, or Hades. Next patch knock out older ones.)

Savage .... No.

See, the idea of these might sound good when you think about "It'd be nice to have people revisiting old content". I know I've certainly lamented feeling like I needed to jump into content within the first month of release otherwise I'll likely rarely get to do it.

However, consider the idea of Shinryu EX, a fight with three very punishing phases that start you over from the very beginning if you fail, being in DF. Or Hades EX, which has six phases with the same stipulation.

It's easy to say "Mentors who actually mentor should be able to help people through fights", but this is not always the case. Some people might learn how to react to mechanics slower than the rest of the party, which might hurt the DPS check. Other people might not understand the way a complicated mechanic works. Consider Neo Exdeath, where one person messing up during Grand Cross will push everyone off the stage and kill them. Would you want to do something like that in DF where there are multiple status effects going out and only seconds to explain to a person what they have to do? Especially when there are multiple outcomes for status effects you can have?

And that's not even getting into people who don't listen to or respond in chat.

As long as there's no punishment for leaving after the first pull. :)

Even if a mentor actually “mentors” doesn’t mean much if no one listens, which is majority of the time. This is a bad idea from the get go. All savage and extremes are optional content anyways, why extremes are in mentor roulette I have no idea.

Ehhhh, Extremes could work if they found a way to limit it only to people who have the clear achievements (preferably the 10th clear one so you can excuse it as not being a fluke) but even then I doubt you could pay the majority of the playerbase to even attempt it.

Savage? Literally no, nope, nadda, nein, begone Satan levels of do not want. There's no way that's going to end well, especially given how hard some of the later fights are and how many people expect to be carried while doing content.

They're good ideas on paper but one look at even Trial Roulette can show you how it'll go in practice. We have way too many people who just spam one button and expect to be carried because 'my tomestones' even there and there is very little doubt in my mind that people would be crowing for the Extremes/Savage fights to be nerfed because people can't get their rewards or some other silliness.

Yes, please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enla

Ehhhh, Extremes could work if they found a way to limit it only to people who have the clear achievements (preferably the 10th clear one so you can excuse it as not being a fluke) but even then I doubt you could pay the majority of the playerbase to even attempt it.

---

Savage is the 1/5/10 clear achievement one. EX has only one achievement for clearing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enla

Ehhhh, Extremes could work if they found a way to limit it only to people who have the clear achievements (preferably the 10th clear one so you can excuse it as not being a fluke) but even then I doubt you could pay the majority of the playerbase to even attempt it.

Savage? Literally no, nope, nadda, nein, begone Satan levels of do not want. There's no way that's going to end well, especially given how hard some of the later fights are and how many people expect to be carried while doing content.

They're good ideas on paper but one look at even Trial Roulette can show you how it'll go in practice. We have way too many people who just spam one button and expect to be carried because 'my tomestones' even there and there is very little doubt in my mind that people would be crowing for the Extremes/Savage fights to be nerfed because people can't get their rewards or some other silliness.

---

Im of the same opinion, pretty much. Though, it does occur to me that the clear requirement you mentioned might not even work, you can afterall just solo some stuff at lvl 80 while skipping most mechanics, atleast the ARR ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

snip

---

Extreme trials could potentially work, but it'd need to be for some other rewards other than exp or tomestones...Perhaps the roulette could give you x10 of whatever token of whatever fight you get as a clear bonus? If its for tomes or exp, people will jump on it and either play as little as possible expecting the tomes to be dropped on their lap, as they do now with even casual dungeons, or they'll be playing a class they're not confident playing in certain extremes - For example, i rarely play healer, but am confident enough playing healer in innocence and titania extreme because there is very little for them to do. Ifrit extreme, synced? Yea nah mate.

And yes as many have said, Savage roulette is a terrible idea. You might get 4 people who have done it before, 2 of which have forgotten half of the mechanics, and 4 that havent done it before. Savage fights take organised midcore groups weeks to progress - A group mashed together in duty finder of varying skill levels wont have a prayer to clear savage content in the alotted time, and for basically any amount of rewards.

good luck getting it to fill after the novelty wears off, your rewards aren't incentive enough to run it after everyone has everything levelled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hugowulf

Even if a mentor actually “mentors” doesn’t mean much if no one listens, which is majority of the time.

---

100 times this.

I have a Astrope. I stuck out every extreme I got thrown into. And I can’t tell you how many times Ramuh fails because tanks won’t listen to how to how swaps need to happen. How people don’t shock people out of seduce.

How “grab Suparna and move her here”!gets ignored in Garuda.

You can macro a sound to Shiva pulling out bow and getting behind for Glass Dance and half the party will still die to it.

Shouting to watch moogles health in Mog typically ends in someone slaughting the same one to death immediately every time.

Try getting tanks to do anything for Odin’s tankbuster or the healers to pay attention to it with all the aoe damage happening.

I cannot teach those who refuse to listen.

The idea that extremes are trivial if a mentor only “mentors” is RIDICULOUS, and shows OP has never been in situation where doing just that has resulted in any advice falling on deaf ears. They’re trivial to people who know what they’re doing. People who have gotten everything they’ve ever wanted and have no need to want to go back.

I can understand the want for incentives for people to experience older content. But just making a roulette isn’t going to be a viable solution. The incentives should be on people to get better.

I really like the idea of an ex trial roulette you can queue for as a premade.

Savage raid roulette on the other end will end in tears. I can go back and do any ex trial in this game synced and remember what to do, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find the majority of veteran players who only had a couple of clears on some of the older savages that will still remember what to do, and many of those mechanics take an extremely long time to learn and survive - tbh even simple things like the tentacle knockbacks in OmegaScape - I cleared that fight 30 times but I wouldn't remember how to do it because it was extremely precise, if you clipped someone else you all died, at least with the ex trials virtually anything you don't remember comes back to you after it kills someone because ex trials have generally always had extremely simple mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Mentor roulette is not the same concept. Most extreme primals are trivial, and are cleared easy with a mentor who.. actually mentors.

---

This quote makes me seriously doubt if you've done mentor roulettes and experienced the joy that is 7 completely blind new players that didn't bother to reference a guide and don't seem to understand tank swapping, using esuna and have any kind of environmental awareness. Then combine that with a measly 1 hour time-frame to teach them. ARR primals, sure, it's do-able, though some sure are harder than others (Ramuh EX, Levi EX, and Titan EX being the biggest hurdles).

Mercifully, they seem to get a clue once they hit Heavensward and jump into party finder. I can't imagine trying to teach Ravana EX if you don't have the DPS to just push him into basically doing no mechanics. I certainly can't imagine teaching the Warring Triad, any of the Stormblood primals, Thordan or Nidhogg, in only 60 minutes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Lastly, Coil is set at the same difficulty as Savage. I did coil when it was new, and I do savage when it is new, they are the same "difficulty."

---

https://i.imgur.com/AfC79o9.png
You point to any Coil fight and tell me how they equate in difficulty to any of Midas Savage or any mechanic that comes remotely close to Hello World 2. Nael and Turn 7 (both) are the closest and they still pale in comparison to what Hello World 2 and Midas Savage in general demand of you. Mechanically, a lot of normal mode fights since Heavensward are the same difficulty as normal coil as well as having a fairly lenient DPS check most of the time. As opposed to most savage modes since Heavensward having more rapid-fire mechanics that often need everyone or specific roles with DPS checks that can be tough to make with many deaths (and sometimes without any).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeowingKittens

100 times this.

I have a Astrope. I stuck out every extreme I got thrown into. And I can’t tell you how many times Ramuh fails because tanks won’t listen to how to how swaps need to happen. How people don’t shock people out of seduce.

How “grab Suparna and move her here”!gets ignored in Garuda.

You can macro a sound to Shiva pulling out bow and getting behind for Glass Dance and half the party will still die to it.

Shouting to watch moogles health in Mog typically ends in someone slaughting the same one to death immediately every time.

Try getting tanks to do anything for Odin’s tankbuster or the healers to pay attention to it with all the aoe damage happening.

I cannot teach those who refuse to listen.

The idea that extremes are trivial if a mentor only “mentors” is RIDICULOUS, and shows OP has never been in situation where doing just that has resulted in any advice falling on deaf ears. They’re trivial to people who know what they’re doing. People who have gotten everything they’ve ever wanted and have no need to want to go back.

I can understand the want for incentives for people to experience older content. But just making a roulette isn’t going to be a viable solution. The incentives should be on people to get better.

---

To add to this OP has clearly not considered EU servers as a thing. I gave up on mentor roullete eventually after being flung into too many EX trials filled with french and german people who had no idea what to do, and couldnt communicate to then how to do it. No amount of mentoring will cross a language barrier

As long as you can still queue for the content you cleared and it won’t put you in content you haven’t cleared. I would love the idea of more roulettes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hugowulf

Even if a mentor actually “mentors” doesn’t mean much if no one listens, which is majority of the time. This is a bad idea from the get go. All savage and extremes are optional content anyways, why extremes are in mentor roulette I have no idea.

---

Extremes being in the roulette is why I stopped trying to even unlock it. Zero interest in a random queue for those.

I'm not opposed to it existing, but I most likely wouldn't queue for it. Be interested to see how many actually would, and what that would translate to in terms of queue times...

I like the idea, until a full party can que. How about 4 man?

The novelty will wear off super quick and it'll just be people expecting to be carried knowing that they're gunning for a full level of EXP in your scenario.

Running them synced is what PF is for or if you're a masochist running them in DF will eat up your day but still get you what you want. The matter is seeing if people last for that long.

Roulettes are meant to be fast and relatively easy ways of capping tomes each week while also filling queues for necessary story progression. As Savage falls under neither category, making a Roulette for it is pointless. There is simply no way you'll make the rewards enticing enough for people to remotely consider it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JunseiKei

You point to any Coil fight and tell me how they equate in difficulty to any of Midas Savage or any mechanic that comes remotely close to Hello World 2. Nael and Turn 7 (both) are the closest and they still pale in comparison to what Hello World 2 and Midas Savage in general demand of you. Mechanically, a lot of normal mode fights since Heavensward are the same difficulty as normal coil as well as having a fairly lenient DPS check most of the time. As opposed to most savage modes since Heavensward having more rapid-fire mechanics that often need everyone or specific roles with DPS checks that can be tough to make with many deaths (and sometimes without any).

---

If you really think most coil fights are on the same level as normal mode, i want video proof of you going in with 7 randoms synced and clearing it in one shot with less than two deaths.

You have to remember that these days coils has had so many nerfs and has such a massive echo boost it makes a lot of the fights much easier, but still not easy enough to the point of ignoring the mechanics as people do these days in normal alex and omega. Coils are still difficult.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VenKitsune

If you really think most coil fights are on the same level as normal mode, i want video proof of you going in with 7 randoms synced and clearing it in one shot with less than two deaths.

You have to remember that these days coils has had so many nerfs and has such a massive echo boost it makes a lot of the fights much easier, but still not easy enough to the point of ignoring the mechanics as people do these days in normal alex and omega. Coils are still difficult.

---

Pugging Coil used to be a thing in Duty Finder, long before Heavensward, Party Finder and unsyncing were even implemented into the game. People did actually complete them - though Turn 7 and 9 continued to be hurdles. This was still before the nerfs. Before Duty Complete was a selectable option, so you got veterans with tons of clears and people that were new, but had at least looked at a guide and paid attention to text for call-outs. Macro call-outs were highly favored and used back then. I don't even think I could get that video for proof even if I wanted to because of unsyncing being a thing - there's no reason to learn 7 year old content. Back then, we didn't know SE would implement these systems, so people actually had to invest interest to actually learn.

Also, I want to emphasize I said mechanically normal coil is the same as normal raids. Coils and normal, you can mess up a mechanic and there was a good chance to recover. Nowadays, even when you know what you're doing in savage, have cleared it, etc., one mistake has a high chance of just killing the run outright. More importantly, normal coil is not on the same difficulty as savage. Savage Coil is on the same difficulty as savage.

I can't help but chuckle that you ask for 7 randoms synced with one shot and less than two deaths when that unto itself is highly rare in normal raids anymore.