Viera and Hrothgar...

I have to be honest. Viera and Hrothgar are mad WHACK! Me and my friends have waited years hoping and praying for the Viera to come out as a playable race and I was happy when they finally announced them. However, these races are clearly not finished and it sucks to have waited so long just for this. I knew a lot of the helms and stuff that were developed pre SHB would not show up at launch however even the gear from shadowbringers does not appear on our heads. What?

Also, gear is one thing but where are the hairstyles? What exactly is the problem? I hear we will get hair that is being developed exclusively for Viera (and Hrothgar??) but we haven't gotten any of that.

TBH none of us really asked to be treated any differently from the other races in the game or have a ton of exclusive hair and gear (which we don't have. We don't even have unique Hemp gear!) We want the same treatment as everyone else. It sounds kind of funny but can we all be treated as equal as possible? THe modern asthetics don't even warn players that the hair will not show up on the Viera or Hrothgar. At least let us know what is going on.


I mean come on when a new hairstyle contest comes out will Viera and Hrothgar be excluded from that too? At least let us get the unlockable hair job gear show up. It's straight-up WACK these are unlockables from grinding various content in the game that we are legit excluded from using this needs to be fixed.

Sorry to be adding another Negative Viera/Hrothgar post but it's gotta be readdressed. The Viera and The Hrothgar are lesser races as I see it.

*puts another tally mark on the wall and resets the "We've gone [X] days without Hrothgar/Viera discourse" sign back to zero.*

It could simply be that alot of items were designed before Viera/Hrothgar was even in production.
And altering what gear they already had within that limited time, since they already stated it's due to lack of manpower and such that there aren't any Male/Female counterparts.
Not all items are made up and created during/after an expansion/update. Alot of items could've been made a long time ago but stored away for the right time to bring them in.

And I've seen quotes about how Viera/Hrothgar will get new hairstyles after 5.0. But remember, after 5.0 is anywhere after. So it could be untill 5.8 or even further. But it could also be sooner.
I think people need to relax and enjoy what they got for now.
More things will be added in time.
be happy one can play a race they wanted to do for so long instead.
Or maybe waiting til next expansion (or even further) for complete races would've been better.
But then people would complain about still not being able to play them.

I know people love FFXIV. But c'mon. Nothing is perfect.

Yeah, I'm getting more and more convinced that they should have simply not added Viera and Hrothgar at all.

Not because they're limited in some fashion, but because going by reactions like this it was clearly not worth their immense (over)time, effort and ressources. They kept saying again and again that they cant really add anymore races, yet people wouldnt listen and ask again and again for their bunnies to be added.
So... the devs gave in, tried to make something they said wouldnt really work work as best as possible.
And here we are now, with people not understanding the workload or the things the devs say - from "we really cant make another race work" to simple things like "They wont be able to use most headgear, we'll add what we can".

Its not that I dont get that people are unhappy with certain aspects of those new races, but its not like they didnt told us all of that before: That it would be difficult, that there would be limits - while certainly never making any promise that everything past 5.0 would be accessible by those races or that by 5.1 all the old gear would have been altered to fit them (yet it seems some people seem to believe that...).
If not getting new hairstyles bothers you so much: Switch to a different race. I'm afraid with Viera you cant have it all - you couldnt even have it at all if the devs didnt give in... which they obviously shouldnt have considering that you cant make people happy.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

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https://i.imgur.com/3db8wHn.gif

I know what you mean, I barely post on the forums and I'm happy that the race came out don't get me wrong. It just starts to get really frustrating after a while.
I've been holding back but this past week it seemed to urk me more than usual.

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Originally Posted by SockOutlet

Sorry to be adding another Negative Viera/Hrothgar post but it's gotta be readdressed. The Viera and The Hrothgar are lesser races as I see it.

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So you knew it was a repost and did it anyway.

Man this is Western entitlement at it's finest, rather than be grateful we got what we initially asked for. Yeah I'm a bit annoyed I can't use hairstyles I've earned or paid for too on Viera, and that I can't even use all the base ones, but I'd rather have access to the race now than wait longer for extra customization - and to be honest, SE gave us all the choice rather than making it for us.

I'm not saying these aren't issues, but 5 months into the expansion to complain about something relatively low on the release priority list as "things we need to fix" when the alternative would have been not releasing them at all and there being just as many threads of "You promised us Viera" "Well yeah we did, but they aren't ready yet because we don't feel we're offering you enough customization of them" and along "Where's Viera?" after every Live Letter, it's like they really can't win.

However them not having tagged premium hairstyles as not being compatible with Viera is unacceptable lol.

Yeah by I knew as in I know people have been adding complaining posts since release. What's actually the problem? To be honest, I feel they shouldn't have released them. At least not in this way but I like the races just not the limitations. I've thought about switching back to an elezen but I'd end up flip-flopping back and forth between the two which I'm not trying to do. It's a love-hate relationship.

So this is the 30th thread in the last week or so? People can't even be bothered to check the top 10 threads on the front page of general discussion (because that's where all those thread usually are, anyway) anymore? And they call me lazy.

Yeah it's like the flood of light but with Viera and Hrothgar posts.

Viera and Hrothgar posts..?
All I see is Viera people complaining about viera limitations who includes Hrothgar in their posts as a sidenote most of the times.
So it wouldn't sound like everything is about Viera. Which to be frank, it is.

What do you mean? The Hrothgar has the same limitations but worst. They came in Expansion together and are held back together. They are in the same boat.

Personally I am hoping that the Viera and Hrothgar get completely deleted and reworked from the ground up - and that that's the reason beyoned the current state of silence. The races lack basic optimalization - which is apparent with the Hrothgar hair glued to face, similar issue for Viera ears. The devs tried to provide variety, yet failed miserably and caused the otherwise. The races need to be reborn to make it easier to implement content for them.

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Originally Posted by SockOutlet

What do you mean? The Hrothgar has the same limitations but worst. They came in Expansion together and are held back together. They are in the same boat.

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Yes they are in the same boat. And like you said, Hrothgar has it even worse than Viera. But still it's like solely Viera posts about their limitations with hats and hairstyles.
Rarely have I ever seen a Hrothgar start a thread about their limitations.
It's mostly Viera complaining about limitations.
So do like the Hrothgar, be happy with what you got for now and be patient.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Personally I am hoping that the Viera and Hrothgar get completely deleted and reworked from the ground up - and that that's the reason beyoned the current state of silence. The races lack basic optimalization - which is apparent with the Hrothgar hair glued to face, similar issue for Viera ears. The devs tried to provide variety, yet failed miserably and caused the otherwise. The races need to be reborn to make it easier to implement content for them.

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They didnt really had the ressources in the first place to make those races, which is part of the reason they had to make certain compromisses (mainly the one-gender thing). They also told us on multiple occassions that they dont have/had the ressources to create new races.
What makes you think that changed and that they magically have those now? Specially after just spending time, effort and money on creating a working version of those races, no matter how limited they might be?

I could get behind them simply getting removed - but without any replacement. Just going back to our former set up instead of wasting more time and effort on something thats never gonna be good enough for people.

A part of me feels that could be the case or partially I can't see them allowing a Hrothgar to have a hair change option at all. It seems rushed or poorly planned and I wouldn't mind if that happened down the line. I don't know if it the coding or the design or if it really is just the shape of their heads. It could be both because one helm I know works on hrothgar while it doesn't work for viera. That is the Traveler's scion helm that Tataru makes for us before ShadowBringer's came out. If that helmet though works on Hrothgar don't get why some other's can't seem to show up. It seems a lot like they had to rush them out.

They split their development when it came to adding these races. They shouldve just all in one race(either Viera or Hrothgar), and settled on that. To be frank, if it came down to it, they shouldve never added Viera simply because Viera is IMO fan service and doesnt even fit to well within the Lore of FFXIV in its current incarnation. And if they want to fix the mess that these two races ended up creating, its gonna need the off sexes + lore retconning + design updates to allow both Hrothgar and Viera to use the barber guy (cant spell atm) to make them complete.

My cynicism leads me to believe that none of this will happen. Best youll get it youll get a few more hair style options before they throw up their hands and say "Eh, thats good enough."

I think more viera complain because the years of hoping with the artwork back in heavensward. People saw Viera there was a male and female counterpart and had expectations set high. However, you're right and I'll refrain from making more posts about it in the future.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

I could get behind them simply getting removed - but without any replacement. Just going back to our former set up instead of wasting more time and effort on something thats never gonna be good enough for people.

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I would be fine with that. The Hrothgar are the main reason I picked the game up again, so if they get removed, I would be able to stop playing and be unaffected by all the issues the game has.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

I would be fine with that. The Hrothgar are the main reason I picked the game up again, so if they get removed, I would be able to stop playing and be unaffected by all the issues the game has.

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Lol Don't remove the Hrothgar, just take a break from the game haha

I think removing them would just anger more people than the limited options currently have, and would just result in people saying the opposite, that they'd rather have limited customization than none at all. Personally I probably would've switched to Hrothgar if I didn't like Au Ra so much. Even with the limitations.

The problem with adding such unique heads is that they have to be treated as unique and the circumstances of these 2 races release ties them together and the devs know this.


So they are planned to be given unique hairs (And in Hrothgar's case, unique faces) at some point in time.
Which I feel is the right way to do things. It would be a hindrance to the possible hair styles and head gear for every-other-race if the devs only made new stuff for all races that could ALSO reasonably work for Viera. It's actually a pretty big deal that their ears come out of the top of their head like that.

I'm sure that the unique hair styles your race of choice will be getting are gonna be great seeing how well made newer hairs are for this game. I get that it sucks to have to wait but I don't understand the point of knowingly spamming this grievance.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Yes they are in the same boat. And like you said, Hrothgar has it even worse than Viera. But still it's like solely Viera posts about their limitations with hats and hairstyles.
Rarely have I ever seen a Hrothgar start a thread about their limitations.
It's mostly Viera complaining about limitations.
So do like the Hrothgar, be happy with what you got for now and be patient.

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There have been plenty of hrothgar who complain about their limitations. I am active in many of these threads, and always bring up that hrothgar always have it worse. I actually respond with viera/hrothgar in about every post about this issue.

I think it is one thing to have viera in the state they are in, but SE have completely bungled hrothgar development to the point I don't think there is any return for that race aside from a complete overhaul. I have speculated that they ran out of time, or something similar while creating hrothgar, then they doubled down for the release of ShadowBringers, and that's how we are in the state we are in now of these limited races. I'd have to find the post with my full speculation, but that's buried by now months ago.

I have continued to speculate that perhaps they won't release anything new for either race unless they both receive it in one update, but then lately seeing future datamined sets (valentines) I don't think they actually even bother to work on them for the new races aside from the bare minimum. No headgear support whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

The problem with adding such unique heads is that they have to be treated as unique and the circumstances of these 2 races release ties them together and the devs know this.


So they are planned to be given unique hairs (And in Hrothgar's case, unique faces) at some point in time.
Which I feel is the right way to do things. It would be a hindrance to the possible hair styles and head gear for every-other-race if the devs only made new stuff for all races that could ALSO reasonably work for Viera. It's actually a pretty big deal that their ears come out of the top of their head like that.

I'm sure that the unique hair styles your race of choice will be getting are gonna be great seeing how well made newer hairs are for this game. I get that it sucks to have to wait but I don't understand the point of knowingly spamming this grievance.

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The thing I was trying to say was I would prefer if we could get the old hairs and what every other race had. I didn't want to be on a different schedule or receive unique stuff. On both sides it will just make non Hroth and Viera wish they had those hairstyles, while Viera and Hrothgar will still be wishing they had the old stuff back. It's just gonna cause more complaining I think if they at least don't just make the unlockable stuff go to every race. Since they still haven't updated the text to those Modern Aesthetics maybe they do plan on at least fixing those so whos knows.

People act like this is 'entitlement' even though we paid for the game and feedback is the only way businesses will change things. SE aren't mind readers, feedback is helpful to devs so they know what in the future needs to be worked on; why do you think arr even exists? If we just stayed content and didn't show our problems with the game we'd still be stuck with ffxiv 1.0, quite possibly the biggest failure in the whole final fantasy series. There definitely are too many threads about this problem, but why not just ignore them? Problem solved, bumping these threads with comments make them stick around even longer.

Regardless, even if change never comes i love playing as viera and rather have it than not have it at all, viera is what made me want to start playing ffxiv again. If you dont like it then dont play as it, no reason to outcry for deletion of viera and hrothgar, we got our wish, and you guys got like 6 other races to choose from. No one is forcing you to play as these races.

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Originally Posted by SockOutlet

The thing I was trying to say was I would prefer if we could get the old hairs and what every other race had. I didn't want to be on a different schedule or receive unique stuff. On both sides it will just make non Hroth and Viera wish they had those hairstyles, while Viera and Hrothgar will still be wishing they had the old stuff back. It's just gonna cause more complaining I think if they at least don't just make the unlockable stuff go to every race. Since they still haven't updated the text to those Modern Aesthetics maybe they do plan on at least fixing those so whos knows.

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IDK what to tell you, it was their design choice to stay true to what a Viera is and not give them a head that's more like other races which would allow for them to share hair styles with ease. As such they are treated as unique heads that will be supported with new unique hair styles instead of bending over backwards to make things like the Form and Function style look right on them. Don't like it then again, IDK what to tell ya other then chill and wait for it or change races.

Sure, when ever Viera and Hrothgar get new hair I'm sure some people are gonna wish it was for everyone just like they did on release (Viera at least. Hrothgar hair is extreme simple and very beastly, never seen anyone care that you can't toss a mane on their Middie) ... and that will fad shortly after.

Also, they don't need to spell it out for anyone that Viera and Hrothgar can't use shared hair styles by putting it in text on items, they have made that very clear by now. :/

Personally, I just gave up.

When I realized that I was expending too much mental energy about something that may come, I realized that I was giving that thing power.

I know it sounds like some stupid zen bullshit but you have to understand: the older you get, the more you realize you should try to give a damn about the things you can actually control or effect, rather than the things that are completely out of your hands.

EDIT: to be very specific here and somewhat ontopic, make your request for change, by all means. But like...don't let it take hold of you or some of you. It doesn't deserve it.