I just got to 80 Bard. and it baffles me. Since we need to fire it off asap at 100 soul voice gauge it just feels janky. Am i the only one that feels this way? The damage also feels a bit underwhelming given how long it takes to get to 100 soul gauge.
I am sad overall that our dots got nerfed for the utility tax...im not even sure the extra 1-2% makes a significant difference?
Why is apex arrow a gcd??
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11-12-2019, 10:37 AMPhileasWhy is apex arrow a gcd??
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11-12-2019, 11:08 AMRika007
The entirety of things done to Bard between patch 4.5 till now is baffling. They took a job that was universally loved by those that played it and butchered it for the sake of 'balance' and the new shiny toy on the block.
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11-15-2019, 11:05 PMBrandedblade
Yeah, I just got my brd to 80 last night and while I do agree that Apex Arrow feels kinda wierd as a gcd. I still love it alot more then i thought i would but I would not be hurt if they made this an ogcd.
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11-16-2019, 12:56 AMwereotter
Because a 600 potency OGCD would be too much. Same thing going on with Saber Dance on dancer.
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11-16-2019, 01:58 AMKitfoxAutomaton Queen is a ~2070 potency ogcd at 100 battery, and due to being ogcd and having no gcd opportunity cost, the scaling potency makes it so you can use it at any gauge amount for the same potency/gauge.Quote:
Originally Posted by wereotter
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11-16-2019, 03:20 AMRika007SMN: Aka Morn and Revelation 650 potency, both oGCD'sQuote:
Originally Posted by wereotter
DRG: Stardiver 600 Potency, oGCD
SAM: Hissatsu: Gurren and Sensei, 850 and 1,100 potency respectively, both oGCD's (but share a recast timer)
GNB: Blasting Zone 800 potency oGCD.
Not to leave out the already mentioned Automaton Queen and Living Shadow.
The potency of the skills have nothing to do with it. -
11-16-2019, 06:11 PMSaitoHikari
It’s pretty clear the devs are very afraid of overpowering Bard. When you really think about it, Bard’s balance history generally revolves around the existence of other classes, rather than being allowed to be its own thing for any longer than a single patch cycle. Recall that we only got bow mage because the devs were afraid that people wouldn’t try out MCH if Bard wasn’t tied to the same mechanic, and now history repeats itself four years later. Bard support got gutted to make room for Dancer. Bard community reacted badly for obvious reasons, and now we’re in a limbo that likely won’t be addressed until next expansion, because ALL of the ranged are suffering from the devs trying to figure out how they want to handle support.
The revelation is kind of upsetting. -
11-17-2019, 03:50 AMRika007It's funny you state this because I would also state Bard's level of "OP" has also revolved around other jobs as well, and yet Bard probably took the biggest axe to it as if it was the lynchpin job that held it all up. People say Bard has been OP since day one but in reality that has more to do with the jobs around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
-In ARR was the only time you could really claim Bard was OP, when 2 of the job was being brought into raid groups and it had to be toned down. But outside of that it was the only party source of mana regen, and the only mobile ranged DPS that could handle mechanics, so even if it's DPS wasn't too strong it still would have been Insta lock, it had no competition.
-In Heavensward it started off strong and then fell behind MCH as it's primary competition got buffed. After some follow up buffs you got the dual ranged DPS comp because of how well they synergized with Dragoon and Ninja. People look at this as the moment Bard was it's most balanced, but it's really because it was the first time and only time till 5.0 that Bard had a legitimate competitor that people WANTED to play.
-In Stormblood Bard got a rework people absolutely LOVED and was almost universally held up as one of the best reworks the devs have ever done. At the same time MCH got a rework that was nearly universally panned as one of the clunkiest and unwieldy jobs the devs ever did. On top of that SCH got Chain Stratagem, Bard received it's passive aura's, AST got the crit rework to the spear, SMN got the Devotion, and DRG added Dragon sight, and thus the "Synergy meta" hit it's ultimate form. All those crit buffs along with the piercing debuffs turned Bard into a monster, and yet speaking as someone who had to play with a White Mage and no DRG in my party, I can tell you that when those jobs were not present, Bard was very much a balanced job. It was the presence of all the other jobs and their synergies along with how powerful crit scales in this game that made it 'OP'. And to top it all off you had the job in it's most fun and playable state, while it's direct competition was in it's absolute worse state.
Now we've come to Shadownbringers and of course all synergy took a hit, but the Dev's treated Bard like it was the lynchpin of the meta, not just the benefactor. If anything the removal of just the crit reliance for procs and the piercing debuff was enough. Foe's and the passive songs could have stayed along with no damage nerfs and that would have let Bard keep it's utility feel and also kept it's power at a proper level. -
11-17-2019, 03:59 PMShurrikhan
Personally, I prefer it to be GCD. Too many Bard animations get clipped off half-finished as is. I'd just prefer it have a stronger potency floor and, ideally, a bit higher a maximum, too. (Honestly, 1000 potency or even higher wouldn't be remotely out of the question; pick smooth floor and per-gauge potencies and see where it ends up.)
Bard's presently underpowered. If it doesn't make Bard leveling suffer too much to allot it some of its level-80 strength only to its capstone ability, then I can see no better place than Apex Arrow to place that missing rDPS besides perhaps some more active support skills (ideally, replacing and doubling down on the recently returned lackluster passive support). -
11-17-2019, 06:24 PMKarshanFor SMN it's pet potency, so it's actually 0.8*650 = 520, but yeah I agree with everything you point out, 600 is definitely not too strong as an oGCDQuote:
Originally Posted by Rika007
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11-19-2019, 03:24 PMPhileas
Thanks for the responses. I think for a gcd button that apex is too weak on top of the long time it takes to charge the soul gauge to 100....
It is probably the reason why i cant play bard right now since its underwhelming in damage and janky in terms of trying to fit it in. I think its potency should be increased if it remains a gcd...i mean even afflatus misery is more satisfying and consistent to use than apex arrow :( -
11-27-2019, 02:59 AMGrimoire-MARR Bard had no other options but was actually overtuned during the launch patch leading to an immediate hot fix nerf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rika007
HW Bard scaled far better than MCH and remained the stronger of the two, just clunky as hell to play and nigh impossible to keep up with how busy it got.
SB Bard kept the broken crit scaling of HW Bard but gained from every utility and mechanical change made to it.
ShB Bard has numbers issues and just needs its songs pushed a bit further or the DoT potency reverted. -
11-27-2019, 04:15 AMShurrikhanTo be fair, splitting the crit stat into both chance and damage actually significantly reduced the damage floor of River of Blood (now Repertoire).Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimoire-M
Bow mage was also scarcely any clunkier than HW MCH. Though procced shots offered MCH more mobility and weave opportunities over time, Feint was a smaller damage loss for Bard, seeing as it has less filler damage in the first place.