Squadrons (healing)

I have noticed that the healer seems to not be able to keep me up (as the tank). I try to keep the gear updated, pop healing potions, but it seems like the healer is doing dps as well. It is almost as if I have to get lucky on timing to survive the final boss vale fight which is level 47. Tried it a bit ago and after 3 attempts I don't think it is going to work. I am not getting hit by the avoidable damage, but when the pods sprout when the boss hits near 50% I might as well quit soon after.

it just isn't always the boss fights either. I noticed the HP gets very low on a pull with 3 mobs as if I got to wait a set time to get healing. Since I am trying to level a tank and with my healing class maxed i had hoped the NPC could do the job.

Can I turn off dps from the healer?

It always seems like the squadron healer just takes way too long to decide what it wants to do. I've seen it just stand there doing nothing while I'm getting punched squarely in the face. Then it'll pop lucid (at full mp) and start cure 2 when I hit around the 30% hp mark. It's kinda scary.

Squadron healers are very slow at healing and as far as I know there's nothing you can do about that. I recently leveled three tanks to 50+ with a lot of that time doing dungeons with my squadron, and Aurum Vale tends to be the worst. Something about certain rooms really seems to boggle the healer's AI. It's certainly doable, though; just take it slowly, use your defensive cooldowns, and avoid as much damage as possible.

One thing to pay attention to for that dungeon, though: when you're fighting morbols (including the final boss), make sure you aren't facing the enemy towards any of the other squadron members. If one gets hit with Bad Breath, the healer is going to spend a loooong time slowly dispelling all of the debuffs that attack leaves. If two squadron members get hit...don't expect much healing for a long time.

Yeah, I tried the Vault with them once as paladin and I couldn't even get to the first boss

I wonder if being the healer yourself might fix this? I've only ever tanked for them.. how effectively can they do that themselves?

The trust healer is garbage as well.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The trust healer is garbage as well.

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I'm sorry, I can't stay quiet about this. Trust healers are a huge step up from Squad healers. They keep you alive as long as you do decent pulls. Don't pull more then two groups, and make sure your healer is close enough to heal you without having to move. It is best to do single pulls though. Most people say the Trust healer is bad, but then proceed to pull two, to three mobs then look at the screen in shock when they fall, like they didn't just try to run through a field of saw blades wearing only their undergarments. I'm not saying you pull three mobs, but I know for a fact the Trusts can heal well enough, because I leveled my PLD purely through trusts, and now are going to do my GNB the same.

I dont know why you play squadron to level tanks, tanks always get instant to a few minute queue times for a dungeon or even anything.

I think I've done most the dungeons with my squadron outside of 1 or 2 perhaps? I need to check as I can't remember, may have done them all, but from what I remember all dungeons excluding 2 of them are able to be done with the squadron healer, the 2 I would not recommend is Brayflox Longstop Hard (this isn't actually a healer thing) as the last boss spawns a bunch of bombs that you need to hit into the corner, it can be done with some stress as the AI ignore the bombs leaving you to individually hit them back your self, but the one dungeon I would 100% avoid with a squadron healer is Wanderer's Palace Hard, I must of wiped 4 or 5 times before giving up on the last boss as it was the same scenario on repeat, the AI just can't heal through the damage that goes off.

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Originally Posted by LeonTrifang

Don't pull more then two groups, and make sure your healer is close enough to heal you without having to move. It is best to do single pulls though.

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In other words, the trust healer is garbage. Even anxious newbie healers can do 2 pulls and follow the tank without me having to keep an eye on where they are.

Squadron npcs in general are pretty bad, though I actually found the healers to be the least bad.
But in general, I seemed to have noticed each has a dufferent beahviour, is it just me? As in, some are better than others.

EDIT: actually, I noticed that when I tank with the squadron indeed I don't get enough healing/the healer starts dpsing instead of healing me; instead when I run with them as dps they heal everybody just fine. No clue why.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

EDIT: actually, I noticed that when I tank with the squadron indeed I don't get enough healing/the healer starts dpsing instead of healing me; instead when I run with them as dps they heal everybody just fine. No clue why.

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The squadron tank takes less damage than a player on a tank. When I go in as a healer myself I barely have to heal the squadron tank at all, but when I am tanking it seems like I get two shot all the time. This is with synched level 80 gear.

I have two simple fixes: Make that the healer will not dps at all. And since the tank is even worse with aggro management, let him spam his AoE attack more often. At least three times when he pulls a new pack. He does it only one time and usually does not hit everything with it.

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Originally Posted by Tint

The squadron tank takes less damage than a player on a tank. When I go in as a healer myself I barely have to heal the squadron tank at all, but when I am tanking it seems like I get two shot all the time. This is with synched level 80 gear.

I have two simple fixes: Make that the healer will not dps at all. And since the tank is even worse with aggro management, let him spam his AoE attack more often. At least three times when he pulls a new pack. He does it only one time and usually does not hit everything with it.

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How do you make the healer not dps?

I\m not sure I've really experienced this on a large scale. There have definitely been moments where the healer seems to be off with their head in the clouds and I've died while waiting on what should have been an obvious heal but most of the time the healers in both Squadrons and Trusts have done a pretty solid job keeping me up, especially as tank and using my skills/cooldowns. I just make sure to always limit my pulls to single groups and don't expect them to be able to deal with what a player healer would be able to do.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The trust healer is garbage as well.

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I have leveled a lot of jobs through squadron and trusts and at least Alphinaud is not garbage. If the NPC is the tank they can keep them up even with big pulls and unlike squadrons who take a long time to heal they are fast with it it too. Of course they will never be as good as real players but trusts are way better than squadrons.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

How do you make the healer not dps?

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Not us, they mean for the devs to make it so the squadron healers don't dps by perhaps taking away the skills entirely, at least that way the AI won't be deciding what to do due to keeping it simple for them.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

I wonder if being the healer yourself might fix this? I've only ever tanked for them.. how effectively can they do that themselves?

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When I used to actually do squadron missions I'd generally heal and essentially I had aggro at all times (even with tank full defense or full offense).

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Originally Posted by Crasherino

Not us, they mean for the devs to make it so the squadron healers don't dps by perhaps taking away the skills entirely, at least that way the AI won't be deciding what to do due to keeping it simple for them.

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Oh yeah, that would be ideal.
Although for a moment I had hoped there was such a command. Squadron really needs more micro-management tools imho.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

How do you make the healer not dps?

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That's something SE has to do.

I would be glad if we could at least use jobs on the squadron members, I would change my healers to SCH in a heartbeat, Eos is maybe weak, but at least she knows how to heal >.>

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

When I used to actually do squadron missions I'd generally heal and essentially I had aggro at all times (even with tank full defense or full offense).

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You have to hit engage on the mobs attacking you so the tank can go to them and AOE to get hate. Tank Squads don't automatically grab trash mobs. They will grab adds on certain boss fights, though.

It doesn't matter what tactic you apply to your tank (Defense, Independent, Offense, etc.). All it does is adjust are damage receive/taken. A rank 5 Offensive tank is going to do the same thing as a rank 5 defensive tank.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

When I used to actually do squadron missions I'd generally heal and essentially I had aggro at all times (even with tank full defense or full offense).

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The tank NPC follows a specific pattern when pulling: they run into range to use their ranged skill, then immediately use their AoE skill once, and then start their single-target rotation. What I've found works best for ensuring that the tank gets aggro on groups is to Engage them on the furthest target away. That way they should be in the middle of the enemy group when they use their AoE skill. Of course, if your tank NPC is a marauder they still likely won't hit everything. The tanks will eventually use Ultimatum, too, but I've seen no real rhyme or reason behind when it triggers aside from "it takes a while".

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

I dont know why you play squadron to level tanks, tanks always get instant to a few minute queue times for a dungeon or even anything.

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Very true ,but I just don't want to deal with randoms at the moment and since I have invested the time to level my squadrons, I wanted to use it. Also when tanking it seems you are expected to know the runs, and it has been a long time since I have done many of these.

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Originally Posted by RivinStormfang

Squadron healers are very slow at healing and as far as I know there's nothing you can do about that. I recently leveled three tanks to 50+ with a lot of that time doing dungeons with my squadron, and Aurum Vale tends to be the worst. Something about certain rooms really seems to boggle the healer's AI. It's certainly doable, though; just take it slowly, use your defensive cooldowns, and avoid as much damage as possible.

One thing to pay attention to for that dungeon, though: when you're fighting morbols (including the final boss), make sure you aren't facing the enemy towards any of the other squadron members. If one gets hit with Bad Breath, the healer is going to spend a loooong time slowly dispelling all of the debuffs that attack leaves. If two squadron members get hit...don't expect much healing for a long time.

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You have a point and one attempt that happened. But even with a food buff, using the pally cool downs, I have had to almost not hold aggro on the mobs and let the NPCs take the beating (especially when the small mobs show) to survive. I guess just from the general ideas here the NPC healer is not very good. Lets say I did run with some other players, and being I have tried to gear my gear as well as possible for his level, i don't think a real player healer would have any problems keeping my character up.

When trying to level my tank with squadrons, everytime I try to pull the 2nd pack, the healer just let me drop. I pop CD, invuln, everything in vain. He'll just ignore my HP dropping and continue to cast stone until it reaches 10% or less. Thats when he'll cast a single Cure and move on. On single mob pull, he'll properly heal me, but in a bit slow manner.

PC healer normally lets me do double pulls, even the zero DPS ones. And that's why I prefer zero DPS healer over zero HPS healer.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

When trying to level my tank with squadrons, everytime I try to pull the 2nd pack, the healer just let me drop. I pop CD, invuln, everything in vain. He'll just ignore my HP dropping and continue to cast stone until it reaches 10% or less. Thats when he'll cast a single Cure and move on. On single mob pull, he'll properly heal me, but in a bit slow manner.

PC healer normally lets me do double pulls, even the zero DPS ones. And that's why I prefer zero DPS healer over zero HPS healer.

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The squadron healer acts kind of like a lobotomized trust healer.

If you're leveling with squadrons, you should be pulling one pack at a time. You might be able to get away with more than that if you're the healer and are reasonably good at micromanaging squad positioning.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

In other words, the trust healer is garbage. Even anxious newbie healers can do 2 pulls and follow the tank without me having to keep an eye on where they are.

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Wow... I'd really be scared to be your healer. One slip up and I feel I'd be considered garbage by you. As long as a healer can heal you through normal pulls, they are a good healer. If they can dps and heal, they are even better. The trusts, do both.