Updates to the Commendation System [Suggestion]

The current commendation system has a few key flaws that could be improved.
Namely:

• no incentive for players to commend anyone
• no rewards for using the commendation system (a small challenge log reward not included)
• the inability to commend players that leave a duty early

All of these factors make it increasingly difficult for new players and players who, for any reason, had to or chose to start a new character. In relation to the mentoring system this makes it nearly impossible and certainly not feasible for players to work towards becoming a PvP/PvE mentor in any realistic time frame.

This holds especially true for anyone who was allowed to become a mentor under the temporary 500 commendations rule that has now been raised by a steep 200% requirement.

After some consideration the following changes would likely benefit the commendation system:

• a selection the commendation dialog should be required to leave a duty
• in accordance to the prior point - an option "chose not to commend" should be added
• include the ability to commend party members that already left the duty

There's more options like allowing additional flavors to the commendations like "skilled dps player", "good party support" etc. but the main idea is to have a player have to interact with the commendation window - even if it's just to click "chose not to commend".
As things stand now - especially on new worlds - players simply rush out of duties without giving as much as a consideration to the commendation window, so raising awareness of it could greatly help.

NOTE: this suggestion is written from an EU-perspective based on the observed commendation behaviour of three worlds and is not necessarily applicable to other worlds / regions or data centers.

So just more of the mentor thing being a reward? I think the requirements should be steeper, with no change to the commendation system. :)

I'm not against steep requirements, the old 1k was fine as are the new 1.5k, the issue is there is no incentive for anyone to commend players so people just don't do it.

Right now the system is a already a reward for players who managed to stick around long enough / on the right worlds and accumulated the commendations [partially over years].

IMO being around for long enough doesn't necessarily qualify more than being a good player - and that's what commendations were conceived to mark.

Most of the commendations are given to tanks and healers. That means that people who want the burger king crown usually pick these and so it decreases the queue times for the rest. If we speed up the generation then it's going to negatively influence the queues.

-raises eyebrow- I start new characters all the time and have not noticed a change in the frequency of comms at all. 1000 comms is hardly steep, I have three characters that have more than 3x that, and a few others that meet it or are really close.

If people could comm before leaving a duty it could probably be really easily exploited. I don't think this should be changed at all.

The only thing I think would be reasonable is maybe adding a second challenge log thing for maybe five more comms, but I don't think comms need to be changed. It shouldn't be incentivized for me to comm someone. If someone did good enough for me to want to comm them, then I will. If you give incentive, then people will just commend people just to get their prize, and that defeats the purpose of the system. Comms should be earned, not just given out because you want something shiny.

The comm system certainly is strange but I’m not really sure what can be done to correct it without annoying people. This game does a really awful job of rewarding or even showing decent play. Couple that with the average roulette player who literally doesn’t care and typically is barely even looking at the screen it seems and yeah. It’s not a great mix if you’re actively trying to get those comms. I’ve had literal top 10 logs in the dungeons and very few comms come from that. Rather most of mine come from carrying parties in the 24 man raids these days. It’s a bit more noticable when you repeatedly save the party from a full wipe there ;)

I fully agree the comm system needs some sort of rework but I've no ideas on how, sadly. I just don't see people using the system all that much in its current format.
I know people have their misconceptions of "oh I didn't get a comm, X role gets all the comms" or some such idea, but really I think the challenge log is the biggest influence here and people are throwing comms out blindly just to get their weekly hit of exp and forget the system exists for the rest of the week.
I worry putting incentives would just encourage people to comm for the benefit rather than what the player they are giving the comm to has achieved, but I like the idea of giving of flavored comms based on what people did during runs, a lot.

I have accumulated over 3k over the past years.

After reading this thread though, it occurred to me that I don't often see a notice of this in chat and then also I realised that I actually forget to commend people.

I just don't think about it, I run as soon as I enter the dungeon, pop sprint right before the first pack, keep running until sprint falls off, AoE everything down, rinse and repeat.
As soon as the last boss dies (usually I don't need any of the loot anyway) I hit U and select leave (faster then manually running to the circle on the end to leave).

I just speed run all dungeons and I just totally forget about the commending thing. Only thing I do is say 'Hi' & 'Thanks, bye' (which are also on macro's because ... faster).

Okay, I was hesitant to post in the first place and my worries were confirmed.. out of all replies two people actually read and understood the idea.

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Most of the commendations are given to tanks and healers. That means that people who want the burger king crown usually pick these and so it decreases the queue times for the rest. If we speed up the generation then it's going to negatively influence the queues.

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Tanks and healers tend to receive commendations if they saved the parties ass in raids, otherwise no-one commends a tank for tanking or a healer for healing. That's a sad reality. Go back two years and a tank would get most comms, not anymore (again based on a number of EU worlds).

@Anaree

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-raises eyebrow- I start new characters all the time and have not noticed a change in the frequency of comms at all. 1000 comms is hardly steep, I have three characters that have more than 3x that, and a few others that meet it or are really close.

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You play on Siren - NA servers don't have the commendation issues a lot of the EU worlds do.

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If people could comm before leaving a duty it could probably be really easily exploited. I don't think this should be changed at all.

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I never said that; I asked for the commendation screen to be displayed at the end of duty, as it is right now, but making a choice on it a mandatory thing, including an option that reads "chose not to commend". The idea is to make players aware that the screen exists while giving them the choice to still not commend anyone.

I do commend players I think did a good job, the majority of players out there give a damn to even open the commendation screen.

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Originally Posted by Hibikii

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I like the spirit of your suggestions but I feel there's a few ways it can be improved.

IMO, the best similar system I've seen doesn't try to hold you in a duty - instead, you can access it more or less any time. For example, you can leave and immediately requeue, and while in the queue for the next roulette or whatever else, then you can pull up a list of people you might like to commend. You could also do it before you left the duty (like now), or even into the next duty as long as you haven't finished it yet.

Essentially, the idea is to remove time and place restrictions - not so dissimilar from yours, but forcing interaction with a prompt is usually a UI-no no.

As for incentive, I think the challenge log is a bit of incentive, but I do think it could be improved too. Utilizing the previous example again, their system gives a small amount of exp for giving out commendations - the FFXIV equivalent could be, I don't know, maybe 2 weekly capped tomestones and 5 uncapped tomestones? Small, but giving them out consistently adds up. Or EXP if not max level.

But the biggest part I would like to see is removing the restrictions on when and where you can comm someone after the conclusion of a duty.

Lastly, that system requires giving as well as receiving to maintain rewards you get for receiving a lot of commendations. Something like this wouldn't be so easy to incorporate into 14 since here, commends are a simple counter on your character profile. But it might be something worth thinking about if it ever became more than that.

I like your ideas. I generally give commendations if people are helpful, play well or are simply good company, but very often I find people leave before I can comm them. In that case, I assume they don't actually want the commendation, so I'm not sure I'd give one to someone who had already left the instance, even if I could.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

I have accumulated over 3k over the past years.

After reading this thread though, it occurred to me that I don't often see a notice of this in chat and then also I realised that I actually forget to commend people.

I just don't think about it, I run as soon as I enter the dungeon, pop sprint right before the first pack, keep running until sprint falls off, AoE everything down, rinse and repeat.
As soon as the last boss dies (usually I don't need any of the loot anyway) I hit U and select leave (faster then manually running to the circle on the end to leave).

I just speed run all dungeons and I just totally forget about the commending thing. Only thing I do is say 'Hi' & 'Thanks, bye' (which are also on macro's because ... faster).

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Hmm let's see you macro your hello and goodbye, you don't ask if anyone needs advice with mechanics, you don't check in with your healer before going turbo and of course you never think to comm anyone else. "I've got mine so forget you all", right?
I used to look forward to having a crown in my group. I used to find them polite and friendly and generally nice to play with. But now that I've made a new character since returning to the game I find that is no longer the case. Any respect I had for the crowns has vanished.
Thank you for confirming what I suspected.

Just let me comm people that already left.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

Just let me comm people that already left.

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This. By the time I load when the fights done I'm lucky there's anyone left in the instance. I'd love to actually commend on occasion.

All I'd want to see is the ability to comm someone who left (though maybe they left because they didn't want comms, I've done this) and the ability to comm multiple people.

A forced commendation dialog wouldn't change anything; people already apathetic on commendations will either click the first name in the list, or scroll down to the 'do not commend' option without a second thought. In my case, it'd be an annoyance for the unfortunately frequent situation where I don't feel ANYONE performed well enough to earn a commendation. I would like to be able to comm people that have left, though; sometimes the only person that I felt did something positive bails before I have the chance. :(

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Originally Posted by SonjaSummertide

Hmm let's see you macro your hello and goodbye, you don't ask if anyone needs advice with mechanics, you don't check in with your healer before going turbo and of course you never think to comm anyone else. "I've got mine so forget you all", right?
I used to look forward to having a crown in my group. I used to find them polite and friendly and generally nice to play with. But now that I've made a new character since returning to the game I find that is no longer the case. Any respect I had for the crowns has vanished.
Thank you for confirming what I suspected.

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Basing all of that spite over one forum post seems needlessly hasty.

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Originally Posted by Hibikii

Tanks and healers tend to receive commendations if they saved the parties ass in raids, otherwise no-one commends a tank for tanking or a healer for healing. That's a sad reality. Go back two years and a tank would get most comms, not anymore (again based on a number of EU worlds).

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That is not how it works here, or at least for me. I am lucky to receive ONE commendation for solo healing the entire raid, as evidenced in 'The Copied Factory'. I actively rescue, and resurrect people dying to stupid over and over and over and over and over and over and over, and GET NOTHING. That's how it is. Commendations are random everywhere, you are lucky to be acknowledged at all.

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Originally Posted by Hibikii

The current commendation system has a few key flaws that could be improved.
Namely:

• no incentive for players to commend anyone
• no rewards for using the commendation system (a small challenge log reward not included)
• the inability to commend players that leave a duty early

All of these factors make it increasingly difficult for new players and players who, for any reason, had to or chose to start a new character. In relation to the mentoring system this makes it nearly impossible and certainly not feasible for players to work towards becoming a PvP/PvE mentor in any realistic time frame.

This holds especially true for anyone who was allowed to become a mentor under the temporary 500 commendations rule that has now been raised by a steep 200% requirement.

After some consideration the following changes would likely benefit the commendation system:

• a selection the commendation dialog should be required to leave a duty
• in accordance to the prior point - an option "chose not to commend" should be added
• include the ability to commend party members that already left the duty

There's more options like allowing additional flavors to the commendations like "skilled dps player", "good party support" etc. but the main idea is to have a player have to interact with the commendation window - even if it's just to click "chose not to commend".
As things stand now - especially on new worlds - players simply rush out of duties without giving as much as a consideration to the commendation window, so raising awareness of it could greatly help.

NOTE: this suggestion is written from an EU-perspective based on the observed commendation behaviour of three worlds and is not necessarily applicable to other worlds / regions or data centers.

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Ohhh hey look; another thread of people whinning about the game

Except it is not whining?
OP was making suggestions to improve the system as were other players...

there should be no rewards for giving commendations, you are not suppossed to instantly get mentor status and if you started playing in 2019, you should not be a mentor if you ask from me anyway.

I'd imagine there being a lot more trade mentors sprouting up in case people really want their crowns back. I've been blasting through crafting and gathering with the new changes and I'd probably qualify for that in under a month if I really went all out.

I've been playin since release (2.0) but I only have about 1400 comms despite bein a healer main. Why? Up until a couple years ago I ran mostly preformed for everything outside of Alliance raids. Once I pulled out of the more active player base to a more casual scene by leaving the FC we ran for so long etc etc I started accumulating comms at a quick rate, not just as Healer but as DPS as well. Generally I'm chatty in instances and try if not to be outright helpful, at least encouraging, andI always admit, and apologize when I mess up. I don't think that's necessarily why I get comms, but I'm sure it helps. I am still a mentor due to qualifyin fer the hammer, but I don't care whether I am or not. I just renewed because it told me I needed to? Personally I think the Mentor system is broken, it was never good. I think the requirements should be more specific, maybe there should be role type mentors idk. I think comms are a terrible measure of quality as most people have noted because we all comm for different, not necessarily gameplay related reasons. My reason for commendation is generally going to be for outstandin gameplay, helpfulness, and/or good attitude in the face of adversity (or repeated wipes). In this I feel I'm the minority though

I'm going to say this... I almost always give a commendation to someone in every roulette I run. There are times I don't because people jet out as soon as possible, or I don't give one because I just didn't think the rest of my team was all that competent, but those are the exception.

I will say, though, there is one time when I don't give them, because the way this game works can actively discourage me from giving them out, and that's if I'm doing something on a level 80 job but am one commendation away from the weekly challenge log and the XP bonus it gives out, I feel like that bonus is wasted if I complete the bonus on a max level job. So if anything I would say that in my case, if the weekly challenge logs were something you had to claim while on a specific job from the log menu, I would feel more inclined to give more commendations.

Just let me filter my log when I'm receiving commends. This activates my OCD hella bad.

Honestly I wish the commendation system was more friendly to DPS mains, but more in a way that you don't have to play tank or healer a ton just to meet the commendation requirements everytime they update the mentor requirements unless you just run a crap ton of dungeons.

That is to say it's not that you can't get comms as a dps because I still get them sometimes, just that I feel like the system rewards healer or tank mains disproportionately.

I sometimes tank but for the most part I'm the happiest when I'm sitting in the back dishing out a lot of damage and throwing out mitigation/helping out the healers with raises when needed, honestly.

I'm not against improvement, but I like commendations as they are. With no incentive to give out commendations, players that receive them know it's because the other player wanted to share it. I, and many others, give out commendations to players who positively influenced the gameplay experience. Whether that's a tank who waits for the party, anyone who plays optimally without overstepping their bounds, someone who shares knowledge with first timers, engages in fun conversation, so on. It's a good way to say, "thank you for making this fun."

I really only commend lala, since I never saw them as anything useful, meaningful, or necessary. Overall never understood why players wants a system that encourages or rewards praising another player. Praise should be fostered organicly not by coercion via rewards. Just as I see the mentor system as flawed. Just my opinion of course.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Honestly I wish the commendation system was more friendly to DPS mains, but more in a way that you don't have to play tank or healer a ton just to meet the commendation requirements everytime they update the mentor requirements unless you just run a crap ton of dungeons.

That is to say it's not that you can't get comms as a dps because I still get them sometimes, just that I feel like the system rewards healer or tank mains disproportionately.

I sometimes tank but for the most part I'm the happiest when I'm sitting in the back dishing out a lot of damage and throwing out mitigation/helping out the healers with raises when needed, honestly.

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That's not an issue with the commendation system. That's an issue with player perception. Tanks and healers typically have a more noticeable impact than DPS, unless you either a.) are experienced and know how fast things should be dying and therefore notice when things are dying faster/slower than usual, or b.) are otherwise paying attention to either aggro bars or the like (to be able to get some idea of which, if any, DPS members of the party are doing particularly well.

That said, since mentors are supposed to be experienced enough in all three roles to teach them to others, the fact DPS players get less commendations than Tanks or Healers is sort of a moot point.

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Originally Posted by Machka

That's not an issue with the commendation system. That's an issue with player perception. Tanks and healers typically have a more noticeable impact than DPS, unless you either a.) are experienced and know how fast things should be dying and therefore notice when things are dying faster/slower than usual, or b.) are otherwise paying attention to either aggro bars or the like (to be able to get some idea of which, if any, DPS members of the party are doing particularly well.

That said, since mentors are supposed to be experienced enough in all three roles to teach them to others, the fact DPS players get less commendations than Tanks or Healers is sort of a moot point.

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Fair enough, I probably shouldn't have mentioned mentor status since the crown is kind of a meme at this point along with The Ultimate Legend title.

However, it would be nice if the player commendation requirement was lower since player commendations are just handed out without a second thought.

I think the commendation system is fine. Players should receive commendations because you felt that they brought something valuable to a duty, not because you feel incentivized to do so. That just defeats the whole purpose of commending. Imagine if the military were incentivized to give out medals of honor because there was some form of bonus attached to it.

I do like the idea of enhancing the commendation system in some way, but there is definitely a need to make sure that any changes don't make the system more cumbersome. Personally I do think it would be nice be able to give some sort of reasoning for giving/receiving a commendation. Something that gives an option to not only say "Good job tanking/healing" but maybe "Very helpful" or "Fun to run with" or something. This alone could start to open commendations up for more than just defaulting to the tank/healer and could potentially encourage a little more interaction and helpfulness instead of just the current 1 pull sprint to the end runs. And, of course, there needs to be an option to "no vote" if you don't feel a commendation is worthy for any of your fellow players. I'm just not sure how to do that in a way that doesn't make the process something people will complain about given that some/many already just choose to ignore commendations altogether.

Oh, and some sort of bonus for giving commendations in the first place, even just a handful of current level tomestones would be nice, especially for the weekly challenge log for level capped jobs.

How many threads are there now fretting about the change to comm requirement? The system is fine. Yes, it (potentially) takes a long time to accumulate the required number of comms. That's a feature, not a bug

I would agree with allowing comms for people who have left, though. Sometimes someone performs well but they leave too fast for me to comm them.

I comm every run I get and rarely get one in return, even when I know my numbers were good. I wish I could revoke my comm from everyone who never gives them. I have enough to not care if I get them any more, but I hate giving to people who never give them out in return.