SCH 5.1 seraph changes...... What? Did SE misunderstand our issues?

Hey soooo,

Quote:

---

Summon Seraph>> Duration has been increased from 20 to 22 seconds.
Seraph must now wait 2 seconds after being summoned to begin executing actions.

---

So there are two ways this could go. Either they lock the skills in which case we'll need two weave windows for our first consolation. Or we can still queue our changes and this just delays our consolation by 2s.

In either case: why? Is this them thinking skill ghosting happens after seraph comes around? Someone please explain this to me because I refuse to believe they are THAT disconnected from the class. I mean surely they have someone testing this stuff.

With that said, them moving the consolation stack refresh from 20s to 30s just because the fairy is out 22s kinda shows they don't understand how the ghosting works.. It would've been impossible to get 3 consolations off anyways... sigh.

EDIT: for any SE employees reading this. There are two issues with the faerie:
- Casting a faerie skill BEFORE seraph or dissipation will use the cooldown but not deploy the skill (because the skill takes time to execute but the faerie disappears from the field before). The reason is also in part because of the second point:
- because embrace/veil are insta cast we need to wait for the faerie GCD to come back. Which delays ALL faerie skills. Faerie skills are already dependent on the caster gcd. They SHOULDN'T also be dependent on the faerie gcd (they should be a faerie ogcd).

SE's balance team has proven time and time again how clueless they are when it comes to healers. I seriously think that they have no idea what is wrong with sch (or healers in general, for that matter). I would love to be proven wrong, but I have close to zero confidence in the competency of the balance team.

Usability buffs that only added more clunk. Thank you Square. For 6.0, don't even bother adding any skills. Just increase Broil and Biolysis and leave the class alone. Thanks.

This does fix a bug, but not one that needed fixing. Seraph could sometimes act too quickly, causing her abilities to not appear in the combat log (or floating combat text).

Here is a gif of it happening. What you're looking for is my HP going from 8160 to 13362 (+5202 HP), and me gaining a shield buff as Seraph is coming out. No floating combat texts shows any healing on me, nor does the combat log. I even get another passive health regen tick before Seraph casts a Seraphic Veil on me for 5256 that does appear in the log.

This is what the combat log looks like for this time period:
[14:41]Eos casts Embrace.
[14:41] You recover 55 HP.
[14:41]You use Summon Seraph.
[14:41]You use Consolation.
[14:41]Critical! You hit the striking dummy for 246 damage.
[14:41]Seraph casts Seraphic Veil.
[14:41] You recover 5256 HP.
[14:41] You gain the effect of Seraphic Veil.

The important distinction is that even though this was technically a bug, it didn't impact gameplay at all. The heal still happened. Putting a 2-second "summoning sickness" on Seraph just seems like a cover-up for game engine/server deficiencies.

This was the oddest and least beneficial change to Scholar I could have ever imagined. I read the patch notes and the forum was my next stop because I was so confused. Summoning Seraph was already a weird extra step to using her abilities that required ridiculous amounts of concentration to keep from ghosting abilities and now we have a 2 second drooling window forced on us and can still ghost abilities... I don't want to wait 2 seconds to apply an already delayed Consolation Shield. Better know the fight well cause nothing is gonna be there in time if you just react to cast bars.

cool, now I get 2 seconds on the front end that I can't use anyway and the 2 seconds on the back end that I cant use. very cool change! (yeah I'm bad and end up losing things like the fairy regen a lot because of seraph)

I'm not gonna lie, the fairy is kinda killing scholar. SE either needs to double down hard on it and actually make the fairy worth a damn and the focus, or ditch the fairy and focus on the rest of the scholars kit. It's unrealistic, but, I really wanna like this job and keep trying to convince myself I do and it almost works. maybe ill just go AST...

I'm pretty sure Square Enix doesn't understand Square Enix.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZaqueXIII

cool, now I get 2 seconds on the front end that I can't use anyway and the 2 seconds on the back end that I cant use. very cool change! (yeah I'm bad and end up losing things like the fairy regen a lot because of seraph)

I'm not gonna lie, the fairy is kinda killing scholar. SE either needs to double down hard on it and actually make the fairy worth a damn and the focus, or ditch the fairy and focus on the rest of the scholars kit. It's unrealistic, but, I really wanna like this job and keep trying to convince myself I do and it almost works. maybe ill just go AST...

---

You're in luck if you only swap to it now. It'd be like never noticing that your kidney should be necessary and that you didn't need to be on dialysis. So long as you never know what you're missing, right?

Personally, I enjoyed micro-managing my fairy back during ARR. I enjoyed stutter-stepping for two, dodging for two, and its relatively meaningful buffed periods. That feeling seems to die off further with each expansion, though when it should be getting more prominent. What part of my fairy do I have to look forward to now, rather than merely begrudge? If I have to even ask that question, something's gone horribly wrong.

This weird change would definitely destroy my pace on Seraph usage.

I usually go like this:

Summon Seraph > immediately follow with 1st Consolation > Broil III > Fey Illumination > Broil III > Whispering Dawn > Broil III > 2nd Consolation

That 2s delay out of no where would mess up my Seraph rotation and Broil III still wouldn't fit in. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SE???

Didnt want to look like a total noob but whats ghosting? And how that ghosting turned out to be a reason for them disastrous Seraph changes? :O

2 sec is enough for someone to die... My seraph froze for 2 sec, not my fault

Ghosting is when u press the skill button and the skill did not execute, but it goes to cd

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antoine_Lenheim

Didnt want to look like a total noob but whats ghosting? And how that ghosting turned out to be a reason for them disastrous Seraph changes? :O

---

Basically because of how the fairy queues abilities, they can go on our cooldown, but the fairy doesn't use them right away. If something then interrupted the fairy, she wouldn't cast it, meaning it's just gone completely.

Examples are using Whispering Dawn right before Dissipation: if you press WD, but eat the fairy before it goes off, you've just lost that regen.

Seraph is a pretty bad example of it because you only have a 20 second window to use Seraph-specific cooldowns. That means if you use Blessing on Eos, then pop Seraph, you could lose that Blessing. Then later if you pop Angel's Whisper when you only have 2 seconds left, if Seraph is doing something due to her own personal GCD she might go away before the cast goes off.

It basically means Seraph has a timer of 20s, but only like 16 are useable without eating your cooldowns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayesafaile

This does fix a bug, but not one that needed fixing. Seraph could sometimes act too quickly, causing her abilities to not appear in the combat log (or floating combat text).

Here is a gif of it happening. What you're looking for is my HP going from 8160 to 13362 (+5202 HP), and me gaining a shield buff as Seraph is coming out. No floating combat texts shows any healing on me, nor does the combat log. I even get another passive health regen tick before Seraph casts a Seraphic Veil on me for 5256 that does appear in the log.

This is what the combat log looks like for this time period:
[14:41]Eos casts Embrace.
[14:41] You recover 55 HP.
[14:41]You use Summon Seraph.
[14:41]You use Consolation.
[14:41]Critical! You hit the striking dummy for 246 damage.
[14:41]Seraph casts Seraphic Veil.
[14:41] You recover 5256 HP.
[14:41] You gain the effect of Seraphic Veil.

The important distinction is that even though this was technically a bug, it didn't impact gameplay at all. The heal still happened. Putting a 2-second "summoning sickness" on Seraph just seems like a cover-up for game engine/server deficiencies.

---

Yeah I was following the whole ordeal on the balance as you were testing things out.
I personally don't think this is to fix the logs. Might be an unpopular opinion but it's a really convoluted way of going about it. It also seems like outreaching to fix an obscure issue without fixing the more obvious ones. Some of the more plausible theories I've heard have been that they implemented some quick hack for the smn wyrmwave and needed to add the 2 seconds to seraph to correct an issue that hack created. Or that perhaps seraph will cast a lingering skill that went on CD but wasn't executed before you called her out. The later being less likely as I'm sure the devs would have loved to place that fix in the changelog for all to see.

The real fix would be to change the actual summon animation but most likely something devs can't do that easily, so yeah the extra 2 secs is a kinda bandaid for now. As for consol, it's just because of the seraph change to 22secs, old consol was 20secs, I'm sure someone would try to squeeze out a 3rd consol with server ticks, lol, it should still have the 2 charge uses so no worries.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Metsonm

Basically because of how the fairy queues abilities, they can go on our cooldown, but the fairy doesn't use them right away. If something then interrupted the fairy, she wouldn't cast it, meaning it's just gone completely.

Examples are using Whispering Dawn right before Dissipation: if you press WD, but eat the fairy before it goes off, you've just lost that regen.

Seraph is a pretty bad example of it because you only have a 20 second window to use Seraph-specific cooldowns. That means if you use Blessing on Eos, then pop Seraph, you could lose that Blessing. Then later if you pop Angel's Whisper when you only have 2 seconds left, if Seraph is doing something due to her own personal GCD she might go away before the cast goes off.

It basically means Seraph has a timer of 20s, but only like 16 are useable without eating your cooldowns.

---

While i'm not sure if it's considered as ghosting, but there's also the infamous case where you can cast both Fairy CD while she's gone and Seraph is up.
I dunno how many Whispering Dawn I've lost this way;...

The Seraph uses the same 2 fairy cds except they are called a different name while shes out, if thats what u mean. Only consolation becomes a completely seperate skill to Fey Blessing, while Aetherpact is killed off

another way is to put dissipation and seraph also on fey GCD ... but then would be annoying coz you'd want to disspate but have to wait for fey to use her abilities before disappearing ...

or as said, WD, FU, FB and so on should be OGCD for eos and she casts them fast and not every 3sec

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Impurrrsive

Ghosting is when u press the skill button and the skill did not execute, but it goes to cd

---

And is utterly infuriating.

https://i.imgur.com/XIz4sfM_d.jpg?ma...idelity=medium

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

https://i.imgur.com/XIz4sfM_d.jpg?ma...idelity=medium

---

It's still pretty unclear what this means. They've addressed the ghosting at the very least, what the drawback is if any is anyone's guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

It's still pretty unclear what this means. They've addressed the ghosting at the very least, what the drawback is if any is anyone's guess.

---

It's better then nothing I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

https://i.imgur.com/XIz4sfM_d.jpg?ma...idelity=medium

---

I'm surprised this didn't get more fanfare. It's almost like an afterthought.

5 minutes after logging in (and being crushed by the stupid housing disapointment again), i ended up causing that exact problem with dissipation, that hadnt been changed, and then watched my fairy plooooooooddddd through her animation to shield ppl late, woo, lol

Yes they haven't fixed anything and instead we now have a 2 sec delay on consolation. Because you know, SCH wasn't already clunky enough. /clap

Anyone else remember that brief period where they made fairy skills instant and all was right with the world? What was the board meeting like where they decided the effects from WHM Temperance needed to apply immediately and that SCH Seraph should wait 2 seconds to act even though it's literally the fairy equivalent of Temperance (increased healing on all actions and party wide mitigation)

https://i.imgur.com/XIz4sfM_d.jpg?ma...idelity=medium

Just use both Consolation stacks at once. Spam the button and you'll get exactly this problem. The fairy now queues the skills one after another but takes ages to use them. Dissipating or Changing to Seraph/Back to Eos still triggers the CD without using the skill. Consolations still gets eaten.

The 2 second delay is just???. Just today I wanted to apply Shields with Seraph before an outgoing AoE but I couldn't do it in time because of the 2 second lockout.

I feel like, with each and every patch, SCH is getting progressively worse instead of better. Even the return of Energy Drain could have been solved more elegantly to support THEIR idea of a "pure healer" role better(Just give 500MP for each stack that gets eaten if you use Aetherflow again for example?). Now I'm using 40 Energy drains in Titan savage instead of 40 heals on damage that should but doesn't exist.

Square Enix, please.

Yeah the 2 second delay is a real pain to work with. I just don't get it. It's like they're actively trying to make the class worse.

Passage of Arms had the delay problem and if I remember correctly they made the effect happen moment you pressed the button. Then made skills on the pet hotbar feel a lot more reactive and it sounds Temperance got the same treatment. The game have always had an odd fondness for tying spelleffects only happen after their animations, Hallowed Ground and Lustrate has come to mind, and that was in ARR. Now it's back to counting the seconds after Consolation lit up until Seraph makes the move. Just making an invisible Seraph spawn and start casting moment you press the button then have the flashy seraph do it's regular thing might work. Even better, make it a permanent summon like Lily with a usable petGCD, who I feel at least starts working a lot faster after re-summoning.

Speaking of, I can't help feeling SE hates Lily with a passion. Every max-level skill for each expansion has been about having less to do with the fairy: Dissipation removes her, Fey Union makes her stationary and Seraph removes her again for a flashy Rouse on a longer cooldown and 2 second delay. Then they made her invulnerable, less and less effective healing and made skills unsuable without commands. It looks half-assed with those four empty slots. I kept playing the job because I wanted to multi-manage a two-man healing party, not because I wanted less to do with my fairy partner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NobleWinter

I'm surprised this didn't get more fanfare. It's almost like an afterthought.

---

Because it still happens. Had a Consolation use it's charge, go on CD, and not be applied to party.