2P Skin Color

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10-20-2019, 03:27 AM
Gula

2P Skin Color

Uh... what happened? I could have sworn she was a pretty brown shade in all media prior to now.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...QUhnSTV56w.png
10-20-2019, 03:43 AM
monk-dps

Wait I missread. Tho I think it still might be a game lighting thing honestly... I don't think she was that much darker then 2B honestly. more of a tan really.
10-20-2019, 04:26 AM
TheForce

Quote:

Originally Posted by monk-dps

Wait I missread. Tho I think it still might be a game lighting thing honestly... I don't think she was that much darker then 2B honestly. more of a tan really.

Nah, she's a bit darker then regular 2B. I play Soul Calibur 6 just about every day so I'm pretty much always seeing the two.
10-20-2019, 04:33 AM
Enla

Quote:

Originally Posted by monk-dps

Wait I missread. Tho I think it still might be a game lighting thing honestly... I don't think she was that much darker then 2B honestly. more of a tan really.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqxzZR6WkAIIPnm.jpg
https://geekreply.com/wp-content/upl...libur-6-2b.jpg
That's really not how darker skin works, it doesn't pale up that much in direct light. With that said for reference here's the skin in full direct light in Soul Caliber 6. They definitely lightened it. I'm just scratching my head as to why.
10-20-2019, 05:42 AM
ReiMakoto

Wheres that screengrab from OP, skintone deffo looks darker in the trailer

Edit: https://gamespot1.cbsistatic.com/upl...594198-2p2.jpg

Looks darker here, dunno where OP's render is from or it could just be my eyes
10-20-2019, 05:55 AM
Freyyy

Uhhh... "2P" isn't a character in SC6. It's just 2B's alt color 2P = player 2, the normal 2B color is 1P = player 1... That's how it's called for every character in the game, not just for 2B. 2B's alt color basically just reverses the black and white colors, but instead of making the skin jet black like her hair they just made it tan. In FFXIV, it's not just 2B with an alt color, it's a new character based on 2B's design and a color scheme that was inspired by her alt color from SC6 which doesn't mean that it has to be 100% the same. And it kinda makes sense too since all of the Yohra have the same skin color/overall physique. They only have different clothing and hairstyles.
10-20-2019, 06:00 AM
Enla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freyyy

Uhhh... "2P" isn't a character in SC6. It's just 2B's alt color 2P = player 2, the normal 2B color is 1P = player 1... That's how it's called for every character in the game, not just for 2B. 2B's alt color basically just reverses the black and white colors, but instead of making the skin jet black like her hair they just made it tan. In FFXIV, it's not just 2B with an alt color, it's a new character based on 2B's design and a color scheme that was inspired by her alt color from SC6 which doesn't mean that it has to be 100% the same. And it kinda makes sense too since all of the Yohra have the same skin color/overall physique. They only have different clothing and hairstyles.

They're literally called 2P on the Nier tie in site.

https://i.gyazo.com/ce8f8617ac398f6a...bb8fa45567.jpg

And 2P as a skin has an already existing look, one they've even made a figure of.
https://cdn-prod.scalefast.com/publi...ddf_KR_369.jpg

That's why people are confused, especially as this raid is being touted as the continuation of the actual Nier game. Given that 2P has reached a status of being a recognized character in their own right, palette swap origins or not, that is why people are confused. 2P didn't just spring into being for this raid.
10-20-2019, 06:03 AM
Barraind

Quote:

With that said for reference here's the skin in full direct light in Soul Caliber 6. They definitely lightened it. I'm just scratching my head as to why.

The same reason a lot of things are different in fighting games for the 2p side, especially in modern titles.

Look at Blanka's 2p skins (both the real ones and the gimmicks) in SF5 or Dhalsim's 2p skins in almost every SF he's been in for the most egregious example of this.

The weirdest one is probably Eddy in Tekken though. He's had a completely different skin color in every different game he's been in, and his 2p skins have been subtly different as well.
10-20-2019, 06:10 AM
Freyyy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enla

Snip

Yes, I know that she's called 2P in FFXIV. That's precisely why I said that she's inspired by 2B's alt color in SC6 but she's a new character. In SC6, the main colors are called 1P and alt colors 2P. This figure you posted is even called "2B - 2P color variant". It literally says that it's 2B but with the SC6 2P color. 2P in FFXIV is inspired by that but "2P" in the first place doesn't exist as a character. FFXIV's 2P is the first time we ever see her so they can definitely give her a different skin color if they wish to do so, especially since it makes sense with the aesthetics of NieR Automata's androids which are all sharing the same skin color/facial features/body. Once again, every characters' alt colors in SC6 are called 2P (and that's the case for a lot of fighting games in general).
10-20-2019, 06:38 AM
Eloah

This sounds like how Dark Pit came into existance, as he started as an alternative coloration of Pit in Smash Bros.
10-20-2019, 06:46 AM
Sei_Konsetsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freyyy

Yes, I know that she's called 2P in FFXIV. That's precisely why I said that she's inspired by 2B's alt color in SC6 but she's a new character. In SC6, the main colors are called 1P and alt colors 2P. This figure you posted is even called "2B - 2P color variant". It literally says that it's 2B but with the SC6 2P color. 2P in FFXIV is inspired by that but "2P" in the first place doesn't exist as a character. FFXIV's 2P is the first time we ever see her so they can definitely give her a different skin color if they wish to do so, especially since it makes sense with the aesthetics of NieR Automata's androids which are all sharing the same skin color/facial features/body. Once again, every characters' alt colors in SC6 are called 2P (and that's the case for a lot of fighting games in general).

Fans of 2b loved the look of the alt color dubbed the alt skin 2p (cause player 2 and all that) and it stuck with the character. Seems the devs liked the name 2p and made this charecter after the fan dub of the name. It is an odd choice for them to change the skin tone given what fans already dubbed 2p, if they were just gonna lighten her skin, might as well as just slapped 2b in the game cause the darker skin, dark hair instead of white, and white outfit makeing her a polar opposit of 2b is what fans loved about it.
10-20-2019, 07:02 AM
Freyyy

I mean, I'm gonna take kind of a wild example here but if you happen to follow Dragon Ball, it's kinda like Gogeta. He's been non-canon for decades and his original vest's color scheme was different from Gotenks' (orange vs yellow), but it was changed to match Gotenks' in the recent Broly movie which is his first "canon" appearance. Some fans loved the old "non-canon" orange vest but the change makes sense, there's no reason for the metamoran outfit to be different depending on who are the fusees. Same can be said with Broly too, the character's design and backstory were changed when going from "non-canon" to "canon", even if it retained a lot from his original self. That's kind of the same here. The character started out as a "not really official" palette swap for 2B, but is now introduced as an independent character. They adjusted her skin color to match the other androids so that it fits within the lore of the source material.
10-20-2019, 09:41 AM
Fredco191

Ok.

10chara
10-20-2019, 10:10 AM
MikkoAkure

SE already has a pretty weird habit of lightening the skin of characters we're "supposed to relate to". It's possible I might be reading too much into it, but there's a lot of examples. I don't think it's enough for it to be malicious, but there's at least a subconscious bias. Cirina is pale with a human-like skintone while the rest of the steppe are dark or pale blue. The professor duskwight in the leatherworker quests is pale while the duskwights we fight are dark-skinned. Most of the moon keepers we interact with are pale with 1 exception but the ones we fight are dark-skinned. Yda, Lyse, and Minfilia? are all highlander women with pale skin, blue eyes, and blonde hair while most of the rest we see are all at least tan. Most of the important good-guy lalafell are pale but the two bad guy ones have darker skin. Viera have always been darker-skinned but the only ones we interact with on both the First and the Source apart from Fran are all pale.

As for 2P, it's strange because in the concept artwork for the patch, she is as dark as the player 2 reskin that inspired her.
10-20-2019, 10:46 AM
Freyyy

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

SE already has a pretty weird habit of lightening the skin of characters we're "supposed to relate to".

What does the skin color of a character have to do with relating to them ? Relating to a character is about relating to what they're going through, how they react to it, the decisions they're taking, how they interact with other characters and the world around them. Relating to a character has nothing to do with sharing physical traits with him/her. You can relate to characters of the opposite gender as well as long as he/she is well written and well... Relatable. Hell, my mother told me multiple times that she relates to Peter Parker/Spiderman in most of his incarnations.
10-20-2019, 11:17 AM
Anterious

What happened is the antagonist of the raid stole her melanin so they wouldn't get sunburned as it's their weakness. Each time we beat a boss in the Neir raid 2P will get darker, this is a battle to take her melanin BACK!
10-20-2019, 11:31 AM
SigmaOZ

I like 2P from Soul Calibur VI better, she's just a prettier 2B and that's how she should have looked in this game.
10-20-2019, 02:08 PM
ElHeggunte

She looks brown/tanned in the other screenshots and trailer, so I don't know why her render on the special site has her looking so pale.
10-20-2019, 04:10 PM
MikkoAkure

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freyyy

What does the skin color of a character have to do with relating to them ? Relating to a character is about relating to what they're going through, how they react to it, the decisions they're taking, how they interact with other characters and the world around them. Relating to a character has nothing to do with sharing physical traits with him/her. You can relate to characters of the opposite gender as well as long as he/she is well written and well... Relatable. Hell, my mother told me multiple times that she relates to Peter Parker/Spiderman in most of his incarnations.

That's why I put quotations around "supposed to relate to". I don't understand it either but noticed that a few instances of specific characters of who have more dialogue than the rest of their sub-race or having more of a presence in a positive light tend to have a lighter skin tone than the rest of their sub-race. I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or a subconscious thing on the devs' part. I was trying to connect my findings with the fact that the player 2 reskin of 2B from Soul Caliber and the artwork of 2P for the patch are both darker than what the devs have given us for the actual game and she's expected to be an important character.
10-20-2019, 04:47 PM
MrThinker

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

That's why I put quotations around "supposed to relate to". I don't understand it either but noticed that a few instances of specific characters of who have more dialogue than the rest of their sub-race or having more of a presence in a positive light tend to have a lighter skin tone than the rest of their sub-race. I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or a subconscious thing on the devs' part.

I mean, Raubahn, Pipin, M'naago and Louisoix have/had darker skin tones, in line with the rest of their race/clan.
10-20-2019, 05:11 PM
NessaWyvern

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

SE already has a pretty weird habit of lightening the skin of characters we're "supposed to relate to". It's possible I might be reading too much into it, but there's a lot of examples. I don't think it's enough for it to be malicious, but there's at least a subconscious bias.

And then we've got the Garleans, one of this games baddies, being mostly pale with blonde or white hair.

Japanese media in general have a lot of pale-skinned characters, though.
10-20-2019, 08:35 PM
Videra

This reminds me of that time Casca was made white, I'm surprised more people aren't talking about 2P being whitewashed.
10-20-2019, 09:54 PM
monk-dps

If it's just posed to be an alt color like 2p Ryu or any other does it really matter in the long run?
10-20-2019, 10:43 PM
Hash_Browns

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

but noticed that a few instances of specific characters of who have more dialogue than the rest of their sub-race or having more of a presence in a positive light tend to have a lighter skin tone than the rest of their sub-race. I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or a subconscious thing on the devs' part.

I agree that 2P having lighter skin doesn't make sense in her artwork, but this is getting to tinfoil hat levels.
10-20-2019, 11:17 PM
Sei_Konsetsu

I know a lit of you may not get it, and im not trying to start a race war or anything like that, but here i go.

Im brown skinned and for me at least, growing up was weird. In video games in particular, the protagonist was usually lighter skinned in games, so as i got older, it was a treat to see darker skinned characters. Many of you may not even know it, but even when gta san Andreas came out, people were upset that the protagonist was black. Now, im not one for just makeing a character change to darker skin tons for the heck of it, but the point of 2p was to not be 2b. I would be upset if the character was called 2b, but sported darker skin, but with the character being called 2p, useing the name fans dubbed it for soul calibur, and the character clearly being based off that instead of the original 2b design, kinda feels a bit like a slap in the face. Is it one thats gonna make me hate the game? Nah, just shake my head on it, but ill still enjoy the content.
10-21-2019, 01:25 AM
Lacan

If she's a robot, she doesn't have a race/ethnicity to begin with right? :v Her skin color is completely arbitrary.
10-21-2019, 01:33 AM
NessaWyvern

Someone, somewhere decided to change it for the site, so it isn't arbitrary to them.
10-21-2019, 01:36 AM
Theodric

I reckon people are overthinking it and looking for controversy where there's none.
10-21-2019, 02:31 AM
Lauront

She's a bit tanner in the original pics, but honestly, it's a character inspired by Nier, much like Ivalice was inspired by the series' games, with its own adaptations. Not really an issue in any case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sei_Konsetsu

I know a lit of you may not get it, and im not trying to start a race war or anything like that, but here i go.

Im brown skinned and for me at least, growing up was weird. In video games in particular, the protagonist was usually lighter skinned in games, so as i got older, it was a treat to see darker skinned characters. Many of you may not even know it, but even when gta san Andreas came out, people were upset that the protagonist was black. Now, im not one for just makeing a character change to darker skin tons for the heck of it, but the point of 2p was to not be 2b. I would be upset if the character was called 2b, but sported darker skin, but with the character being called 2p, useing the name fans dubbed it for soul calibur, and the character clearly being based off that instead of the original 2b design, kinda feels a bit like a slap in the face. Is it one thats gonna make me hate the game? Nah, just shake my head on it, but ill still enjoy the content.

Just having tanner skin wouldn't make her a different race, as the biological concept does not work that way... but she's an android anyway. So there's not really anything to shake your head at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

That's why I put quotations around "supposed to relate to". I don't understand it either but noticed that a few instances of specific characters of who have more dialogue than the rest of their sub-race or having more of a presence in a positive light tend to have a lighter skin tone than the rest of their sub-race. I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or a subconscious thing on the devs' part. I was trying to connect my findings with the fact that the player 2 reskin of 2B from Soul Caliber and the artwork of 2P for the patch are both darker than what the devs have given us for the actual game and she's expected to be an important character.

No, it's quite ostensibly the case that pale skin is generally preferred in eastern cultures... you can call it a "bias", but whatcha gonna do about it? Moan on their instagram?

Like other people pointed out, it doesn't even divide that way, but I guess you need something to be up in arms about...
10-21-2019, 02:49 AM
Lauront

Just book her a spray and bake session at a tanning salon on the First and all will be right with the world again.
10-21-2019, 03:00 AM
Nedkel

This render probably been done by someone who had no idea about Nier. :P
10-21-2019, 03:35 AM
Samsta

Brown 2B looks so much better.
10-21-2019, 04:10 AM
alimdia

Even if she ends up looking pale in-game, anyone pinning this on SE is forgetting that Yoko Taro has full creative freedom on this raid, anything that changes is because he (and not SE) decided to change it.
10-21-2019, 04:13 AM
Reap00

Keep fighting over skin color folks. Its exactly what the people at the top of the food chain want you to do.
10-21-2019, 04:17 AM
MikkoAkure

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauront

No, it's quite ostensibly the case that pale skin is generally preferred in eastern cultures... you can call it a "bias", but whatcha gonna do about it? Moan on their instagram?

Like other people pointed out, it doesn't even divide that way, but I guess you need something to be up in arms about...

I'm not "up in arms" or angry or moaning or anything. I was just making an observation and trying to add to the conversation.
10-21-2019, 04:34 AM
Sei_Konsetsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lacan

If she's a robot, she doesn't have a race/ethnicity to begin with right? :v Her skin color is completely arbitrary.

If it didn’t matter, why change it from the orginal source? Its pretty obvious its based off the 2p color from Soul Calibur, and even uses the same name fans dubbed it, so why change it at all?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theodric

I reckon people are overthinking it and looking for controversy where there's none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauront

Just having tanner skin wouldn't make her a different race, as the biological concept does not work that way... but she's an android anyway. So there's not really anything to shake your head at.

I don’t know about others, but I’m not out to make a controversy. The fact is, that it was changed from the original to be more light skinned. If they wanted it to be this way, why not just put 2b? I would have been fine with that, because that’s what 2b looks like, but this is clearly based of the 2p skin in soul calibur which was darker in skin tone, which while I can see why it wouldn’t bother some of you, it does slightly bother me that someone made the change because someone felt that a character that was shown to be of darker skin was less appealing than that of a character of whiter skin tone, which I’ll just shake my head at and move on.
10-21-2019, 04:54 AM
CookiesNCreams

Is this 2P story connected to Nier Automatas story in any way? Does anyone know? And if it is, is it cannon or filler? Sorry if I’m slow to the party.
10-21-2019, 05:06 AM
Berethos

This 2P? Not at all - the story we will see in the raid, involving these characters, is specific to the universe of FFXIV and canon to the universe of FFXIV. We will certainly see plenty of elements inspired by Nier Automata and its story, but they almost certainly won't be connected in a narrative or canon sense (like 99.9% certain...I won't say 100% because who knows with Yoko Taro, lol).

Our version will basically be "What if Nier Automata type stuff happened in the XIV universe, what would that involve?" rather than a spin-off adventure involving any of the characters from the actual Nier Automata.
10-21-2019, 05:07 AM
Barraind

Quote:

Is this 2P story connected to Nier Automatas story in any way? Does anyone know?

2p doesnt currently exist in the Nier universe, so nobody even knows how, or even IF, they're connected in 14's tie-in. Since they're both squeenix properties, they can always just retcon anything any way they want after the fact.

2p currently is only the second player skin for 2b in Soul Caliber, like blue dhalsim, orange blanka, pale eddy, ect,
10-21-2019, 06:50 AM
linay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sei_Konsetsu

If it didn’t matter, why change it from the orginal source? Its pretty obvious its based off the 2p color from Soul Calibur, and even uses the same name fans dubbed it, so why change it at all?

The simplest explanation is whoever in charge of this particular render either does not know everything about the source material or simply prefers the aesthetics of a lighter skin tone. And if it really does not matter, then they can change it or stick to the source, whatever suits them.

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