I have been biting at the bit for more story to Shadowbringers. I had fallen in love with so many characters, and some all over again. I couldn't wait to hear more of their story, to see where the story would go: And then I realized....
Emet-Selch is dead. What reason do I have to go on? To see my beloved G'raha Tia again? Oh Emet.... you were taken too soon. We should have let you live a while. What will the rest of the expansion be without you taunting us? Without you making my heart bleed for your plight. You too, deserved to see your friends again. You, children of eld, true keepers of The Source. You WILL be remembered. We WILL remember, that you once lived.
And then I realized... (ShB Spoilers!!)
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10-11-2019, 12:32 AMAngellosAnd then I realized... (ShB Spoilers!!)
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10-11-2019, 12:58 AMSerLuke
I don’t miss the guy who boasted he was planning on murdering the scions and whoever else was left on The Source that wasn’t originally an ancient.
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10-11-2019, 01:22 AMTheodricThat's fine. Many people - myself included - do miss him.Quote:
Originally Posted by SerLuke
He's by far the most compelling antagonist we've had in a while. -
10-11-2019, 01:25 AMIscahSounds like a perfectly worthwhile reason to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angellos
>_> -
10-11-2019, 01:33 AMShougun
"remember us"
Next expansion: Eme--
Players: Who?
SE: You know Emet-Selch the main--
Player: Imma let you finish but Livia sas Janius is the best bad guy.
:3
Idea entirely being born from a selfish biased desire for instanced houses (pocket worlds, key point without going on too much that the wards would not be destroyed or left out), an idea that I felt might be a fun way to introduce that and play around with stress at the same time was having Emet-Selch suddenly appear nonchalantly as he does and telling he wants to show us something, wants to teach us something.
"Well if this is the best we got I suppose we'll have to make do, too bad we don't have any better" type of remarks lol. As you travel around the whole of the game to specific locations of plants, weather, and history, as he tells you some lore and even referencing old-old events (like unknowable history for most of us, creations, etc)- for the purpose of imprinting these objects you cross to your mind and materia-izing. Then he begins to teach you how to create some of these objects from these gathered memories, perhaps at the place of his great creation magic (final zone) as a way of power boosting as if you were at a crafting station sort of aspect. Weaving in his own creation magic remnants like one weaves in HQ materials for a better chance at a good product, that way it's explained that we're not lords of creation magic but getting a bit of help by having a huge resource on hand. The whole time the game plays with you to determine whether that's him, a fragment of him, his own magic recreating it's master in an attempt to live- somehow aware of it's demise and not welcoming it, or even sort of a traumatic response to everything that's happened (figment of your imagination attempting to cope and yet still march forward, echo and other magics twisting the experience further). Preferably the truth not being they actually are back already though lol, I'd rather lean towards magic that has fragments of the owner left (he dead, but remembered) + trauma to make some sort of magical PTSD. Of course you can include the other members of that final area, especially the one who knows they're a memory.
Besides that I also see perhaps having our echo / role-play experience being a fun way to visit these characters again, like it would be interesting getting to play as Emet himself (and others), perhaps getting to absolutely own the WoD party lol. But mostly for that unique view of their experience. Might be fun to have one where long ago they attempted to parley with Hydaelyn but for whatever reason (preferably a good one) she was unable to help and had to stick strong even though it pained her to do so -
10-11-2019, 01:44 AMEdaxQuote:
Originally Posted by Angellos
I'm not sure your "remembering" properly with this revisionist history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angellos
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10-11-2019, 02:07 AMAngellosHey. Hey. I REALLY love Ascians, okay?! I really loved Emet. My heart bled for his plight. The eons of despair he's endured. The loss. The fear. The pang of simply wanting to be returned with his family and friends. It's a story I want to continue... but can Elidibus really hold a light up to Emet? Time will tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edax
RIP my most beloved FFXIV characters:
Haurchefant
Emet-Selch. -
10-11-2019, 02:10 AMRasikko
There was just some really good writing that's all. He had like all the best lines.
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10-11-2019, 02:17 AMAlucard135
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10-11-2019, 03:02 AMnoxenRemember us, and that a smile better suits a hero.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angellos
There's a double-barrel quote for you. I will dispense the comforting hug bot to your apartment/house/fc quarters at your earliest convinience. -
10-11-2019, 03:12 AMHyoMinParkAgreed. Emet was a perfect anti-villain. That I could disagree with his methods and goals, yet still sympathize and feel sorry for him, really is a testament to the effort that went into writing his character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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10-11-2019, 03:15 AMdinnertime
I'll miss Ardbert.
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10-11-2019, 03:15 AMAlleluiaYeah. I mean, I miss Hades, too, but G'raha is a perfectly valid "reason to go on". lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
I'm hoping against hope that he's not gone entirely. Its a long shot, I know, but still.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnertime
So many new people I want to stick around in the story after this xpac. G'raha, Feo Ul, Ardbert... lol The characters in this one really were such a standout for me. -
10-11-2019, 03:19 AMEnlaIt also really helps that Natsuko Ishikawa intimately seems to understand the process of grief and how it can warp a person. All while acknowledging that one person's pain does not give them the justification to harm others. It's a much more nuanced take on a villain than we've gotten in awhile and while I'd prefer they leave Emet at rest, I do hope that nuance continues to be present in future villains.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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10-11-2019, 03:27 AMHyoMinParkI agree. Bringing Emet back would lessen the impact of his death. I wouldn’t want that either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enla
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10-11-2019, 03:28 AMSerLukeDon’t get me wrong I agree that he was an excellent villain but he had to be stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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10-11-2019, 03:30 AMHyoMinParkI’m not disagreeing with you on that. But I do agree that he was the most compelling villain that this game has ever had—and I will miss his theatrics.Quote:
Originally Posted by SerLuke
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10-11-2019, 03:32 AMSerLukeAye I loved how they kinda setup for that in the Ivalice raids when they mentioned Solus had a love for the theater it really shows in his characterQuote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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10-11-2019, 03:37 AMHyoMinParkThe story writers have a really high bar set with Emet lolQuote:
Originally Posted by SerLuke
I’ve gotta be honest: not looking forward to going back to mustache-twirling Zenos eventually. Whether that be before or after we deal with Elidibus. I’d hope Natsuko can make him more compelling than he was in SB—but he has been sort of like that annoying fly that snuck into your kitchen for me, so I’m still like :/ about him being bad. -
10-11-2019, 03:44 AMLauraAdalenaBut he'll forever be with us... in our heart. I think literally.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnertime
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10-11-2019, 03:47 AMHyoMinParkHe’s even deeper than that: he’s within our very soul. Quite literally.Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraAdalena
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10-11-2019, 05:10 AMJazmyn
Hmmmm miss a psychopath bent on killing tens of thousands people untold animal life for his own personal gain Yeah not happening
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10-11-2019, 05:15 AMAlleluiaI mean, to be completely fair, he can't really NOT be bent on that. Tempering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazmyn
At least he wasn't just murder happy. Or else he'd have just personally offed us all and been done with it. -
10-11-2019, 05:18 AMRivinStormfangThat's my biggest worry about the story going forward. Zenos was a terrible, boring villain and I really would have preferred it if he'd stayed dead. Varis was evolving into an interesting character during the end of Stormblood; I think they should've let him take the reigns of main villain for a while instead of just dropping Zenos back on us. But then we got Emet-Selch and I was just blown away with how well-done he was as a villain. If they really try to make Zenos the "final boss" of the Ascian storyline, as they seem to be hinting towards, it's probably going to be a huge disappointment after what we got in this expansion. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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10-11-2019, 05:34 AMErryKCan I have your stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by Angellos
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10-11-2019, 05:37 AMFredco191
Oh shit.. I forgot he died!
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10-11-2019, 05:38 AMEnlaI think the kind of villain they were going for with Zenos could have worked, it's just his execution was utterly flaccid. The unstoppable force of nature who has the depth of a thimble but doesn't need any complex motivations to be interesting or fun to go against? That's a legitimate way to write a villain and has been used to pretty great effect in the series past with villains like Kefka. Kefka does have a tragic backstory that informs you of how he got the way he was but it in no way affects who he is /now/. Zenos likewise has an informed backstory where you understand why he seems stripped of all humanity, it's pretty heavily implied he was experimented upon, but he just wasn't interesting enough to work with what he was given.Quote:
Originally Posted by RivinStormfang
My hope is that Ishikawa can work her magic and at least make Zenos /fun/ to go against if not particularly interesting or complex. I think it's a touch too late to fix his character in such a drastic fashion unfortunately. Though I sincerely hope she has something planned given that like you said it's hard not to notice the writing on the wall that's hinting at Zenos being the final boss of this particular overarching storyline. -
10-11-2019, 05:52 AMHyoMinParkZenos seemed interesting enough during Stormblood—especially since he was the first villain that had ever really “defeated” us; so I was kind of intrigued by him in the beginning. I could even accept his abrupt death at the end of 4.0’s story, though that was kind of like “o okay well he dead so uh... what now”. When they brought Elidibus back in Zenos’ body, I thought that this had potential—but then we find out Zenos is running around in the body of a Haurchefant doppelgänger and I kind of rolled my eyes. Especially since his entire reasoning was just to get his body back so he can RAWR FIGHT THE WOL again. It just felt like empty motivation to me, and there’s not really been anything about Zenos’ character that made me sympathize with him even though he was the villain. So the part of 5.0’s ending where he was just like “Bye Varis” and stabbed him made me kind of roll my eyes again, because I thought to myself “Really... we have to deal with him again?”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enla
I’m with you in hoping that Ishikawa can make him at least an interesting character in 5.x—even though I think it’s a bit too late for him to develop the kind of complexity and depth that Emet-Selch had. So I’m remaining cautiously optimistic in that regard. But it is disappointing to think that Zenos will be a “final boss” of this expansion too, since we already dealt with him ad nauseam in 4.0 and 4.x (even if 4.x was technically Elidibus body-snatching Zenos—which was more interesting, honestly). -
10-11-2019, 06:53 AMdinnertime
I never really liked Zenos but the trend of the writers bringing back dead people has gotten old already, and it was more apparent on Zenos because they made an elaborate attempt to bring him back and it kept going for multiple patches. The whole "reveal" at the end of the 5.0 story was messy, too. Why is Elidibus, an ancient eternal being with powers of creation, afraid of some dude with a katana? Seriously... I'm tired of this fool.
I hope Emet-Selch doesn't come back. I'll miss the guy because he's an entertaining villain but he's fulfilled his purpose in the story. -
10-11-2019, 05:44 PMFoxyAreku
He was very well written and compelling, but I can't say I'm going to miss someone who was in favor of genocide.