Given that RDM isn't looking like it's going to be in the best place next patch (they specifically mentioned all the phys ranged, SMN, and the accompanying reworks while saying several jobs might go without adjustments), I've put together a few changes for RDM that would put it roughly on par with where everyone else is going to be.
Dualcast: Altered Functionality - Now reduces the cast time of your next spell by 6s.
This change nerfs Dualcast Verraise a fair amount while still making it overall better than when any other classes have to hardcast their raise. I'd rather see Verraise gone entirely, but this is a relatively happy medium.
Jolt II: Potency increased to 260.
Verfire/Verstone: Potency increased to 290.
Verthunder/Veraero: Potency increased to 330.
Enchanted Reprise: Potency increased to 300.
This change is meant to bring Reprise back to its Media tour numbers, when using it intelligently had the potential to be a large gain for the RDM player but misusing it would just about tank your damage. Currently it's just the latter, almost none of the former. Also, this change brings Reprise's potency per second value just over Moulinet's, so we can finally get rid of Moulinet's usage in the 120s Manafication rotation.
Manafication: Now increases magic damage by 10% for 10 seconds.
This change is meant to make the 120s rotation slightly more appealing and make our most defining ability more impactful to use, given multiplicative scaling on buffs. Also, regarding the common Scorch complaint, Scorch's damage is snapshotted when you press the button, not when the numbers on the screen show up. 10s is plenty of time, just keep calm.
Please Buff RDM For 5.1
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10-05-2019, 09:48 AMLeidirivPlease Buff RDM For 5.1
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10-05-2019, 11:20 AMZynesteI would say we need to be about 5% higher in damage. All the ranged do. So to get there we would need about 850 DPS to make up for it at the current tier using E2s as the Metric for its 100% uptime. [~14,150 is orange RDM damage. The ADPS of a rdm around 13,650 for simplicity/consistency later.]Quote:
Originally Posted by Leidiriv
RDPS increase from Magical Embolden [165/850]
Magical Embolden is the number one thing I want even over personal DPS buffs. We need both, but if we don't get Magical Embolden we'll never be able to party with another caster without being gimped. That alone would add about +165 from the good Healers. We'll also be getting some DPS back from Ninjutsus/the other classes that have magical skills in their bursts. [7,500 DPS healer +6% with 1/6 fight uptime. ~1% DPS increase. More when you multiply it with other buffs so well estimate it at 1.1. 82.5. x2 healers.] This leaves us about 685 for personal buffs.
Raw Potency Increases [425/685]
[If you're going to increase the others by 20, you should be increasing jolt. You shouldn't punish RDM harder for its RNG. We can only do so much to mitigate bad procs.]
Jolt II: Potency increased to 270. [Makes up about 4.4% of our aDPS currently. If doing 13,650 thats 600 from this skill]
20/250 = 8% increase in potency. 8% increase to 4.4% of our damage is a ~50 DPS increase.
Verfire/Verstone: Potency increased to 290. [Makes up about 16.5% of our aDPS currently. If doing 13,650 thats 2250 from these skills]
20/270 = 7.4% increase in potency. 7.4% increase to 16.5% of our damage is a ~165 DPS increase.
Verthunder/Veraero: Potency increased to 330. [Makes up about 26% of our aDPS currently. If doing 13,650 thats 3550 from these skills]
20/310 = 6.5% increase in potency. 6.5% increase to 26% of our damage is a ~210 DPS increase.
Enchanted Reprise: Potency increased to at least 270 to stay in the same shape it is in now. Ideally this just needs to stay relevant to compete. 300 would be better but 270 minimum. You can't really count this towards our DPS goal of 850. We have about 260 DPS we still need to make up for, thats about 1.5% damage increase.
Increasing Manafiction [~260/260]:
Manafiction is essentially 5% of 2250 potency so 112.5 potency every 120 seconds in the 120 rotation. [Jolt II does about 19.2k per cast on a log similar to the criteria set. Jolt II is 250 Potency. About 38% DH and 31% crit. Thats about 9,600 Damage for 112.5 potency.] Over 120 seconds this converts to about 80. So increasing it from 5 to 10 would be a 80 dps increase.I would say we could go farther and increase it to 20%. That would be 240. Factor in raid buff alignments and we'd be pretty close to that 260 mark, bringing us very close to our goal of 5% damage increase on RDM. If Its damage is barely too high, just reduce Manafiction from 20% to 15% to knock down 80-100 DPS.
To me the change to Dualcast you suggested is meh okay, but being 6% behind BLM is more than enough of a tax. -
10-06-2019, 05:51 AMFFgame
Calm down with these threads res mages, eureka 5.X is coming.
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10-06-2019, 08:00 AMLeidirivNo, I will not calm down. Did SCH calm down in 4.0? Did WAR? How about AST in 3.x? If we want change, we have to make our voices heard. I'm making my voice heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by FFgame
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10-06-2019, 08:48 AMCetek14
Just buff potencies, everything else is fine. And rework embolden, because now it's somewhat useless, depending on your party.
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10-06-2019, 10:00 AMArchwizard
Uh, having Dualcast reduce the cast time of Verraise wouldn't exactly be a nerf to Verraise since it would still consistently have a cast-time below the GCD. In fact, since Dualcast presently works by doing a check if the last spell was instant or not (partly to mitigate the effects of chaining Swiftcast I imagine), the fact that Verraise would still have a cast time would actually allow it to proc multiple Dualcast in a row, which could be seen as sidegrade at worst or even a small buff.
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10-06-2019, 10:10 AMLeidirivWith a cast time reduction of 6 seconds and Verraises's base cast time of 10s, Verraise would have a total cast time of 4s. It'd still proc Dualcast and RDM would be better at rezzing without Swiftcast than SMN or the healers, but it wouldn't be "good" at it. It'd mitigate the loss of on-demand rezzing ever so slightly, but it would decisively be a nerf compared to current Dualcast RezQuote:
Originally Posted by Archwizard
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10-06-2019, 10:26 AMArchwizardHuh. TIL Verraise's cast time is innately 2 sec longer than other rezzes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leidiriv
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10-06-2019, 11:44 AMKatie_KittyYou're not supposed to hardcast it lol. They should actually make it 20 seconds or more so people would stop hardcasting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archwizard
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10-06-2019, 06:21 PMArchwizardNever said I did hardcast it, honey. If anything the fact I didn't already know its cast time should point to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
Not that it would matter, since OP would just say Dualcast would reduce it to 4 seconds anyway.
Seriously, context. Reading comprehension is a recurring problem for you. -
10-06-2019, 09:23 PMRasikko
Verraise doesn't even define the job anymore with the MP changes. You can spam it 2-3 times max before you bottom out. RDM really has no identity at this point.
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10-06-2019, 09:45 PMSaberMaxwellThat was true in 5.0 but that got fixed in 5.01. RDM raise machine got fixed quick for better or for worse, and it's telling SE rushed quick to make sure we had the Mana needed to be raise batteries first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasikko
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10-07-2019, 05:03 AMremiff
stop to open threads , in addition they have already announced that all the dps will be rebalanced to the 5.1, a little patience.
they are already aware that the ranges dps have a too big dps gap with melee job and blm . -
10-07-2019, 06:57 AMLeidirivThey announced the contrary with the Live Letter digest, saying that on top of SMN/NIN/ranged there would likely be some other jobs that got adjustments and some that didn't get any. As ranged is often used to describe the Physical Ranged DPS role while caster is used for Magical Ranged DPS, I thought it would be prudent to make another thread. After all, they also said in that digest that they would take player feedbakc into consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by remiff
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10-08-2019, 06:54 AMKarshanEven without using Veraise mana mangement was an issue before the change with too costy spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell
But if you're parsing, Veraise is useless, because no one in your group is supposed to die, and even if they do you let a healer swift (several deaths means you wipe to get a better try for the parse) -
10-08-2019, 07:15 AMSaberMaxwellThat's fair enough. Having an MP negative rotation was painful and it gave us a time limit in the fight. It's not that they fixed it, it's how much they fixed it. RDM went from MP negative to MP positive to an extreme degree; you can bottom out your MP pool from raising several times in succession, but between Lucid and new spell costs you'll be back up to near full capacity in (relatively) short order.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karshan
No argument from me here. That's a non sequitur, however, seeing as the post I was responding to only made the point that "RDM can't be a raise battery anymore," and my response was "They fixed it so it can be a raise battery still."Quote:
But if you're parsing, Veraise is useless, because no one in your group is supposed to die, and even if they do you let a healer swift (several deaths means you wipe to get a better try for the parse)
I can break it down further: "Verraise doesn't define the job anymore [...]. You can only spam it 2-3 times before you're out"
In StB it was 3,600/14,400 to cast; 25% exactly. In ShB, it's 2,400/10,000, 24% exactly. The only difference is in StB we had outside mana regeneration from the Phys Ranged, but we also now have twice the Lucid Dreaming ticks we did back then. The point? In StB, you could spam it just as much as you can now: 2-3 times, and you're out. The MP changes in 5.0 themselves made us MP negative, which actually did break us for being able to raise; they were fixed, we're no longer bottomed out for the rest of the fight after 3 verraises.
I should clarify that wereotter's position is also mine. RDM can't be the raise mage; that's a meme plain and simple. I'm merely stating that at the moment, it is the raise mage, whether people like it or not (and I certainly don't.)Quote:
Originally Posted by wereotter
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10-08-2019, 07:35 AMwereotterExactly, they tend to use the language used as caster DPS to be ranged magical and ranged DPS to mean ranged physical. If that assumption is made, it can be deduced that dancer, machinist, bard, and summoner will get adjustments while red mage will be left as-is. This would be very unfortunate as red mage already has the second lowest DPS in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leidiriv
The job can't be defined by "this is the job that can do chain raises" as that's not healthy for the job's ability to progress and evolve or for the game and its players. -
10-08-2019, 01:37 PMCroszArcenciel
Right now, the Devs kept on saying that the problem is the Utility of the Verraise and VerCure. Might I suggest that they just make Verraise and VerCure different:
Verraise - 360s CD. Resurection, resurrected player will have full HP and will not have a weakness. Instant Cast.
VerCure - 180s CD. Full HP heal ( Yes its a Bene ).
If they did it like that, would it reduce the utility by a lot? This way Verraise and Vercure will only be used on absolutely important moments.
Will these changes be enough for the Devs to buff the damage of the RDM? -
10-08-2019, 02:11 PMSaberMaxwellIf vercure becomes oGCD, RDM needs another spell to proc dualcast during downtimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by CroszArcenciel
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10-08-2019, 09:46 PMMaero
@ remiff
Why be patient though? The past has already showed itself that they care more for every other job.
If it follows again, jobs will all see 1 or 2 changes, then they will "look" at RM. -
10-08-2019, 10:57 PMJonnycbad
They can give Verraise a 30s recast or something. They've shown they can add individual recast to spells. Blue Mage for example has Peculiar Light and Offguard, which are spells that have their own recasts.
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10-11-2019, 09:01 PMAomine1992
With SE’s limited resources I say they need to yes boost all range but pay specific attention to the caster role as it has the biggest disparity. It’s sad to know that they will most likely overlook RDM cause they are so out of touch with the game.
RDM needs just as much attention as us SMNs cause we are all far too below BLM and honestly far too below in terms of magic damage dealers which are usually consistently high in what? every other MMO!
But I foresee reworks to NIN and SMN, buffs to phys range and then a complete overlook of RDM which has been pretty far behind since SB -
10-12-2019, 02:15 AMMaero
Exactly what i have been saying all along @ Aomine1992.
Would not surprise if it is an exact repeat of Stormblood. Every job seen multiple changes before they even "looked" at Red Mage because apparently they think it has always been fine as it is.
Smn may very well also follow every expansion and be more powerful then blm -
10-12-2019, 03:27 AMwereotterThe devs always seem to have a reason why BLM should have such high damage. Heavensward was because it was so immobile. But now between it's skills in that expansion, Stormblood, and Shadowbringers, if it has to, the job can 7 GCDs moving without losing a single cast, and for less intensive movement phases, it has Between the Lines and Aetherial Manipulation, which actually makes it probably the most mobile caster in the game... So now the excuse is that because black mage can't raise, it has to be massively above Summoner and Red Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aomine1992
Honestly to me, at this point it's starting to feel like an excuse for "the producer mains this job, so it must be powerful"
Likely everyone things that red mage being second lowest DPS job in the game is fine, and nothing will happen in 5.1.... or really any patch. -
10-12-2019, 04:51 AMSpeckledBurd
No comment on the specific changes proposed here but I agree Red Mage (and Summoner) need buffs. I don't particularly like the idea that Red Mage has always had to eat a huge DPS penalty just for having a Raise regardless of it being used, and I'm not really a fan of Summoner getting dragged down for it also. There's already two inherent Penalties for death, the 25-50% debuff that comes from Rez Sickness and the MP/Time that's burned getting them back on their feet. If the devs think that there needs to be more of a penalty on the RDM/SMN then fine, make casting Verraise/Resurrection give some kind of debuff too, but they shouldn't be penalized this much just for having the skills.
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10-12-2019, 07:08 AMremiffthe summoner was stronger than the black mage at 4.1 only, after the summoner had a small serie of deserved nerf, but after the blm had a potency buff so the job was more balanced in any case better than today, and then they have not talked about potency buff for the Summoner 5.1, but small rework to make it less busy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maero
but the summoner and the red mage need a dps buff because now the black mage is about 2k-2k6 of dps higher than the summoner and red mage.
it is too much . -
10-13-2019, 02:48 AMAsuras
I remember the simpler days when cloth/light armor dps did the most damage, leather/medium armor dps did less, and metal/heavy armor dps did the least. It went the opposite for squishiness. Of course, there were "hybrids" who could wear different kinds of armor and equip a larger variety of weapons; they could also heal, take a slight beating, and do some damage. They tended to scale pretty well with equipment and were usually the envy towards the end of an expansion life-cycle when everyone was maxed out; up until that point, they tended to just solo. The red mage certainly isn't that.
Nowadays, the perception of where dps should stand depends on how many gimmicks a class has, how easy they are to play compared to others (whether it is in their rotation or encounter mechanics", how "needed" they may appear to be in this situation or that situation, and whether they are in this dps role or that dps role. Since SE will never clearly answer the question (because they are probably as confused about it as everyone - nothing was ever outlined or what was originally outlined was never adhered to), the speculation of who should do what and why just gets crazier and crazier. -
10-13-2019, 03:53 AMHyperiusUltima
Generally what SE needs to look at is buffing Jolt so it's not garbage when RNG doesn't want to cooperate, and Embolden. Reprise was a useful utility for burning gauge when you weren't allowed to Disengagement, but it could use a slight buff to make it equal to Disengagement. Though, Raise can honestly be removed from Casters in general. Why did we have it? Because SE wanted to keep the semblance of 'utility' in saving Healers MP for raises; but in reality, once people are good enough to not die, RDM's raid value drops like a rock, let alone is affected by raid composition because of Embolden.