My AST Rework idea to bridge old and new buffs

Generally speaking there are two camps on the AST cards, people who want the damage and prefer the damage ups and people who want the variety buffs, My idea is to change the way divination works, currently 1 seal gets you 4% 2 gets you 5% and 3 seal types get you the full 6% except.... why would you ever use one seal type? There are 2 cards of each seal type so it takes more luck/effort to end up with 3 of one seal as you have a 1/3 change to draw say a Sun card as opposed to a not Sun card, so why would you ever put the extra effort in for the weaker effect?, Instead, why not have the 3 same seal cards give a variety buff ala pre rework AST. It wouldn't require more hotkeys and would add that layer of choice beyond "this card goes to melee, this one to ranged" and would allow, at least in part for both types of AST camps. You could even give some purpose to Undraw by making it burn a saved seal if you changed your mind about what you need.

I think bridging the two buffs or two approaches is not a bad idea. Whilst I don't think the old system needed changing, but if change had to happen, then I see room for compromise.

The way I kinda ended up thinking about it. If people are so concerned with balance fishing, I think keep Divination as is and keep Arcana as it is. Replace the rest with the old system. If you keep getting The Bole but want a DPS boost card instead, King or Queen it. If you want Divination, play the card game. Because in the current system, I'm still fishing for seals anyway and Kinging or Queening a card I don't work or accept that I'll get a lower-powered divination, but I feel like that's admitting defeat. :P

AST card system is complicated.
You cannot reach a perfect system.
- if you want diverse card effect like the old system, it will cause a lot of issue (stability, reliability and balancing)
- if you want a more reliable card like current system, it will cause a monotone play style (less interesting)
- all card system will always be a fishing game as long as we have redraw and something different with the card (seal or card effect)

I think SE will make the card system more simple in the future due to current condition.
We do a lot of work with current card system, but its result is not worthy
Probably we ended up with only 2 card in the future: Lord and Lady (oh wait, they already done it in PVP)

I think an acceptable compromise would be to keep parts of both systems.

For example, the old card effects and duration, but with halved potencies and a 3% damage buff on each of them (and another effect for Spire, of course)
That way every card would directly contribute to dps, and we'd get the choice and variety the old cards had.

Alternatively, we could keep the current card system, but change Divination so it also adds the old effect of each card used (ex: using Balance, Bole and Arrow for seals add to Divination a dps, attack speed and migitation buff). This would make Divination feel truly powerful and modular.

The old card system is too good to be completely scrapped, and the current one has a reliability the former system lacked. I would personally love to see a new system that combines the best of both.


And if the devs really don't want people to fish for a certain card, just remove Redraw or slap a longer CD on it. If you give players the ability to redraw every card, of course they'll go for their favourites.

I think the best solution is to completely divorce damage and utility cards. Make them separate decks with separate draw CDs. If neither one comes with a cost to the other then optimal play will require using both.

I'd change damage Draw to have a 30 sec CD and provide one of each seal when used out of combat. Add utility Draw with a 30 or 60 sec CD. Each deck gets its own Play button. Remove Sleeve Draw or change it to immediately draw one damage card and one utility card. Both decks would have their own Redraw, possibly sharing charges.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

I think the best solution is to completely divorce damage and utility cards. Make them separate decks with separate draw CDs. If neither one comes with a cost to the other then optimal play will require using both.

I'd change damage Draw to have a 30 sec CD and provide one of each seal when used out of combat. Add utility Draw with a 30 or 60 sec CD. Each deck gets its own Play button. Remove Sleeve Draw or change it to immediately draw one damage card and one utility card. Both decks would have their own Redraw, possibly sharing charges.

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So I definitely like the idea of this, but in that implementation would be a lot of button bloat, especially if you consider minor arcana. It's a nice foundation, but it needs some fat trimming.

I feel like a good compromise between reliable utility and "the way things used to be" would be do keep the melee/ranged divide and make the cards dhit, crit, and speed with the same seal fishing for divination. Add a new ability on a 2 min cooldown to turn current card into a defensive buff, which also offers the seal, and a new ability that turns the current card into a power up for the next major arcana, also grants seal, so there's two ways to churn cards in a stacked party that doesn't have what you drew, and still get the seals. Cards feel like a resource again, and more of the deck management would be back in my gauge.

I wouldn't like this system as well as the old but if we have to keep going from where we are, then something along these lines would help me enjoy the cards a lot more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

I think the best solution is to completely divorce damage and utility cards. Make them separate decks with separate draw CDs. If neither one comes with a cost to the other then optimal play will require using both.

I'd change damage Draw to have a 30 sec CD and provide one of each seal when used out of combat. Add utility Draw with a 30 or 60 sec CD. Each deck gets its own Play button. Remove Sleeve Draw or change it to immediately draw one damage card and one utility card. Both decks would have their own Redraw, possibly sharing charges.

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It would take a rework of AST healing as well, to account for the crazy button bloat and mental energy this would take to manage, BUT I like it. I would enjoy the cards being so pivotal to AST gameplay that it takes two resources that are managed separately and focus on different things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

I think the best solution is to completely divorce damage and utility cards. Make them separate decks with separate draw CDs. If neither one comes with a cost to the other then optimal play will require using both.

I'd change damage Draw to have a 30 sec CD and provide one of each seal when used out of combat. Add utility Draw with a 30 or 60 sec CD. Each deck gets its own Play button. Remove Sleeve Draw or change it to immediately draw one damage card and one utility card. Both decks would have their own Redraw, possibly sharing charges.

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I've said this in a different thread as well and I agree that dps increase and support cards should be separated because support cards cannot compete with dps cards.

I'm not a fan of different DPS cards because the direct damage increase will always be better. Meanwhile, a direct hit or a crit card can be either great or useless for a given target.

So here's a quick brainstorm:

Draw/Play (DPS): 2 DPS cards, one for melee, one for ranged.
Draw/Play (Support): up to 4 support cards - pick your favorites (e.g: mitigation, SB lady, self ewer, next cast is free).

Redraw:
- If used after drawing a DPS card, give the opposite card (details below).
- If used after drawing a Support card, give another support card.

Divination:
- Base 4% for example.
- 4 slots for DPS cards: 1% better divination for each card, going up to 8% (details below).
- 1 slot for a Support card: functions as the activator. Fill this seal (use any one support card) and you can cast Divination.

Some details:

Divination could give an additional 1% for each pair of different cards: 3 melee + 1 ranged (9%), 2 melee + 2 ranged (10%). Maintain the Balance, if you'll pardon the pun. But if this is the case, you'll want to Redraw to ensure that 10% Divination, in which case you're giving up reliability on the Support side and can cause reluctance to use Support cards.

Redraw on Support cards needs to be reliable. So if you've drawn Card 1, then Redraw will give 2,3 or 4. If you don't want the 2 you've redrawn, the second redraw will pick between 3 and 4. Draw resets your pool of cards and Redraw shrinks it to the point where you're guaranteed to get the one you want.

If both statements above are the case, then we need a lower cooldown on Redraw (or just deal with the randomness on the support side, because 2 Redraws will be saved for the worst case DPS draws in favor of 10% divination). If Support redraw is on 1 min cd, we might not. Gotta think about this some more.

Minor Arcana and Sleeve Draw can disappear in the interest of having fewer buttons.
If you want even more interaction, you can have the Support seal in Divination function as Spread did in SB. This will seal the card and give you access to Divination, essentially banking one support card for later use, giving you access to two support cards at any one time. But you'd have to make sure a Support card is sacrificed so that Divination is usable when it goes off-cooldown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

I think the best solution is to completely divorce damage and utility cards. Make them separate decks with separate draw CDs. If neither one comes with a cost to the other then optimal play will require using both.

I'd change damage Draw to have a 30 sec CD and provide one of each seal when used out of combat. Add utility Draw with a 30 or 60 sec CD. Each deck gets its own Play button. Remove Sleeve Draw or change it to immediately draw one damage card and one utility card. Both decks would have their own Redraw, possibly sharing charges.

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I like this concept.
Maybe we get an additional trait upgrading Draw to Sleeve Draw at maybe LV 60 or 70?
So Draw only give you 1 card random
Sleeve Draw give 2 card (1 offensive + 1 defensive).
Kinda similar to Sleeve Draw in PVP during SB.

Not sure about Redraw and Minor Arcana as you will held 2 card at the same time.
Maybe Redraw and Minor Arcana can be used when you only held 1 card either offensive or defensive.
Both skill animation is only for 1 card anyway.

Then, I think we also need to adjust our healing a bit because we can give tank a reliable additional CD during the fight.
So we are not becoming too OP.
Well actually with this concept we have a change to turn AST into a different healer.
We can give-up our regen and shield from Aspected spell.
We only have access to shield and healer from a CD skill like COpp and CI (maybe both give regen and shield effect).
We focused more in reducing damage with our reliable card.
So our play style will be different compared to WHM and SCH.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

So I definitely like the idea of this, but in that implementation would be a lot of button bloat, especially if you consider minor arcana. It's a nice foundation, but it needs some fat trimming.

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I took a look at the current card buttons and tried to trim down how many buttons would be needed to support a dual deck system.

Current:
1. Draw
2. Play
3. Redraw
4. Undraw
5. Minor Arcana
6. Sleeve Draw

If implemented along the same lines as the current system, dual deck would require:
1. Draw (damage)
2. Draw (utility)
3. Play (damage)
4. Play (utility)
5. Redraw (damage)
6. Redraw (utility)
7. Undraw (damage)
8. Undraw (utility)
9. Minor Arcana (damage)
10. Minor Arcana (utility)
11. Sleeve Draw

That's an extra five cards, but I think we can trim some of that down.
I'd suggest merging Draw and Play into a single button like it used to be. Adding a 1.0 or 1.5 sec CD after Draw should eliminate accidentally playing a drawn card immediately. Alternatively, Draw could function passively. Every 30 secs you get a card if your hand is open. In either case that'll save two buttons.
Next I would remove seals from the utility cards. This means that being stuck with a poor utility card won't negatively impact Divination. Without that risk we can cut out Redraw (utility). As an alternative, we would merge them both into a single Redraw that functions on all drawn cards. That's another button removed.
With the way that Draw's CD starts immediately rather than after playing a card, there is no penalty to holding a card. In SB there were seriously penalties to holding cards and Royal Road meant that playing an unneeded card was a harmful way to dispose of them. With those penalties removed, Undraw is not necessary for either deck. If you do not want a card you can Play it without any downsides. Two more buttons removed.
By limiting seals to the damage cards there is no need for Minor Arcana for the utility deck. Strike out another button.
Sleeve Draw will be kept.

This leaves us with:
1. Draw/Play (damage)
2. Draw/Play (utility)
3. Redraw (damage or both)
4. Minor Arcana (damage)
5. Sleeve Draw

There we go. We can implement a dual deck system with one button less than we have right now. If we split Draw and Play back into two buttons for each deck we'll still only have a single button more than the current system.


Edit: I put some more thought into utility effects. A lot of utility effects are useful for both single target and party wide buffs depending on the situation. Rather than implement both single target and aoe cards, why not make it depend on your target? If you target an ally or self then a single target version of the buff is applied. If you have no target or are targeting an enemy then a weaker aoe version of the same buff is applied to nearby party members.

Suppose our effects are: reduced damage taken, increased healing received, Refresh, and an ability to reduce time remaining on Weakness or Brink of Death.

If the single target effects are -20% damage taken for 15 secs, +20% healing received for 15 secs, +300 MP per tick for 15 secs, -30 secs on Weakness/Brink of Death debuff, then the aoe versions could be halved. -10% damage taken for 15 secs for allies within 15 yalms, +10% healing received for 15 secs for allies within 15 yalms, +150 MP per tick for allies within 15 yalms, -15 secs on Weakness/Brink of Death for allies within 15 yalms.


As an alternative, if a utility card is drawn when an Earthly Star is placed then the aoe buff will be applied to everyone within the star when it detonates. This might reduce error caused by accidentally targeting a hostile target when trying to use a single target buff and vice versa.