Thoughts on the Onsal Hakair?

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We had the recent live letter showing off Danshing Nadaam, the new map for the Onsal Hakair ruleset.

This is the suggested Seize 2.0 map that Yoshi-p has been throwing around for a couple of months. What are people's thoughts on it?

If it plays similar to how it was in the SB MSQ I think it's going to be pretty fun. If people needed a quick reminder it's pretty much a copy of Seize. There's white circle areas on the ground that you had to interact with and claim, and the group that fills the gauge to 100 would claim it for their team. I believe there was only one in the MSQ so this will be their answer for not using Allagan technology in the Steppe if they substitute them for the Tomeliths.

I like the map layout being much flatter then Seal Rock, which will allow you to see more going on in the field. Hopefully it allows for even more fast paced gameplay with the cut out time of trying to reach the top (like the center top tomelith in Seal Rock for example).

I think it looks cool
I do love seal rock but it does normally just become let those 2 fight while other grabs pillars and wins

So would be nice not be 1v1v1

Yeah that's the problem with 1v1v1 as a whole. I just hope instead the map design forces everyone to be closer so that becomes less of an issue of one group camping far away from the rest.

Map looks nice! Very “capture the Hill” type game mode vibes I’m getting, like the above comments 1v1v1 will be similar “wait for two teams to fight then flank them” so I hope it’s just 1v1 instead, I also hope the map isn’t too big or we’ll be spending too much time chasing objectives.

Man this map design already screaming flank dump and poach lmao.

I just wish they'd get away with that 1v1v1 system. It's just no fun and not intuitive. I really think ff14 pvp would benefit from having all its battleground changed into a more regular 1v1 format.

It's a frontlines so I inherently doubt I'm going to enjoy it.

Three-way PvP only works when all three teams aren't stupid and have their priorities straight, because what usually happens is second and third place getting into constant fights while letting first have all the objectives for an easy victory.

If the objectives aren't RNG, it might be slightly more enjoyable because both Seize/Shatter can randomly give a team a huge advantage simply by being closer to where a high-scoring objective happens to appear.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

I just wish they'd get away with that 1v1v1 system. It's just no fun and not intuitive. I really think ff14 pvp would benefit from having all its battleground changed into a more regular 1v1 format.

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Frontlines most definitely will not benefit from 1v1 gameplay, because that actually benefits premades to go on a spawn camping stomp even more, the only thing that gives any team breathing room and gives them a minute chance of beating a premade, is that they can't focus on one GC for too long or the other one will get far too far ahead making use of the distraction. People being bad at understanding how 1v1v1 works is not a good enough excuse to change the mode, especially when the outcome of "i just wanna kill stuff" is still going to be a reality.

XIV is an oddity among MMOs for making its large-scale PvP a three way affair.

1v1 formats work in several other MMOs largely because they tend to make killing players a lot less productive then it is in XIV. Rival Wings is a much more "standard" PvP format for its heavy emphasis on objectives but sadly goes largely ignored due to not having a roulette bonus attached to it. Almost everyone I've talked to finds it to be the more enjoyable mode overall.

It doesn't change the fact that a team with premades is always going to be at an advantage but at least makes spawn camping a much less viable strategy that quite frankly is the polar opposite of fun for the ones on the receiving end of it when their campers are swimming in battle high and virtually unbeatable.

I'd agree that because of how XIV sets up elements with frontlines with the kills giving so many points and BH being a main element it does force people to farm outside a base to get the advantage. Secure is just notorious for this since the map is THAT huge and the third team could just be claiming zones instead of coming for the base you're farming kills from.

I'd really say if the kills were potentially reduced to 1 even 2 points a kill and say 5 for a BH kill it would at least change up the farming strats to focus more on objectives.

That's a really a big reason I prefer Rival Wings, killing is nice if you can do that while getting an objective, but the objectives will always take importance.

1v1v1 is a garbage concept and format for large scale team based PvP with maps that have various objectives hahahaha!!! Why bother trying to learn the fundamentals of the format or mode if its just trash to begin with xDDDDDDDDDD

In 1v1, you only have to worry about your own team not being stupid.

In a three-way format, you have to pray that all three teams have their priorities straight or else you'll frequently end up with one of the teams just feeding the win to someone by dragging down the second place team with them instead of trying to close the gap between everyone by targeting first place. It's exceedingly rare to get games that have all of the teams relatively close in points due to them constantly changing their targets based on the situation.

My most recent game had the Maelstrom constantly moving in on our base in Secure despite the fact that Adders had a 100 point lead and they also kept trying to pinch us whenever we went after them. There's simply no way to prevail in a situation like that where none of teams are dominating enough to get battle highs but one of them is effectively siding with the first place team.

As long as there aren’t any ice or other PvE targets to kill, this map is alright. I feel fighting over the capture points will be very similar to fighting over the train in Hidden Gorge.

Premades on this map will be fun.

I just hope they dont remove any of the existing maps from the rotation queue. Any new achievements should be tied to the rotation queue and not only for the map.

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

As long as there aren’t any ice or other PvE targets to kill, this map is alright. I feel fighting over the capture points will be very similar to fighting over the train in Hidden Gorge.

Premades on this map will be fun.

I just hope they dont remove any of the existing maps from the rotation queue. Any new achievements should be tied to the rotation queue and not only for the map.

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That will be the real question. Do they disable the rotation que for awhile? Are new achievements tied to the zone? I know people are trying to get some of the old achievments. But it would suck waiting every 4 days for the new map to show up if it has map related achievements. I guess they could keep roulette locked and leave this map open. I doubt foresight was involved when devs discussed this. I would bet at least 2 titles and a mount are in the zone.



A new zone should help the que. Not sure about aether now but at the start of SB it was almost instant any time of day, sure more bots than people would like. Crystal is pretty bad right now. Even at night it can be 15 mins and day time can be over 24+. And while I have free lancer on and get lots of Flame que. It has got to be worse for the people queing maelstrom only.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

That will be the real question. Do they disable the rotation que for awhile? Are new achievements tied to the zone? I know people are trying to get some of the old achievments. But it would suck waiting every 4 days for the new map to show up if it has map related achievements. I guess they could keep roulette locked and leave this map open. I doubt foresight was involved when devs discussed this. I would bet at least 2 titles and a mount are in the zone.

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The "Vanguard" title and the black/yellow ADS mount were added with 4.3 and those can be earned on any map. This should be the standard for Frontline achievements going forward.

One alternative would be to remove one map from the rotation and let this new map take its place. Since this is the sequel to Seal Rock, maybe it should replace SR? Since they didn't mention anything about the queue, I think they will just add this map to the rotation.

Another alternative is to have 3 maps in the rotation but they get rotated out every week.

For example;

Week 1 of 5.1, you have Onsal Hakair, Secure and Seize.
Week 2, you have Shatter, Onsal Hakair and Secure.
Week 3, you have Seize, Shatter and Onsal Hakair.

As always, only one map is available each day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

The "Vanguard" title and the black/yellow ADS mount were added with 4.3 and those can be earned on any map. This should be the standard for Frontline achievements going forward.

One alternative would be to remove one map from the rotation and let this new map take its place. Since this is the sequel to Seal Rock, maybe it should replace SR? Since they didn't mention anything about the queue, I think they will just add this map to the rotation.

Another alternative is to have 3 maps in the rotation but they get rotated out every week.

For example;

Week 1 of 5.1, you have Onsal Hakair, Secure and Seize.
Week 2, you have Shatter, Onsal Hakair and Secure.
Week 3, you have Seize, Shatter and Onsal Hakair.

As always, only one map is available each day.

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If a current map needs to be removed I'd prefer they remove that ice map...

I tend to have the worst time with Seize, personally. Being at the objective first there is a lot more advantageous then in Shatter as you can't get any points from the node at all if there's even a few enemy players present to keep you from accessing it.

I feel like both Seize and Shatter would benefit from having node spawns telegraphed some time in advance so it doesn't end up handing them to a team that happens to be in the right place at the right time.

They also seriously need to add a roulette for Rival Wings because getting either of the mount achievements is virtually impossible right now due to how low the interest in the mode is. I know the Revival Wings discord does actually get enough people together for games queue relatively quickly on weekends but that really shouldn't be necessary.

I'm hoping the map layout is mostly balanced/symmetrical because let's face it, Seal Rock often times is an unbalanced mess. The caves team have the terrain advantage on a lot of their tomeliths and more are in closer proximity to their spawn, and the north team is prone to getting sandwiched due to the map layout and how the tomeliths are positioned by their spawn (and having less tomeliths in their 'territory'). To a lesser extent this is true for Shatter as well I guess. Due to how far apart the West and East teams are from each other at the middle clearing, the South team typically gets focus-fired for being the closest between them (But potentially made up by the fact their two adjacent large ices are literally a few seconds away from their base).

I can't see much about the map layout from the screenshot for Onsal Hakair, but I guess it's good that it's relatively flat with little to no obstructions so the people who typically don't pay attention to their map and the objectives aren't completely helpless.

Something else I am not sure has been mentioned. Rotating games doesn't help people get used to the map. I am not saying it makes players way better. But when you do say seize over and over you know when to leave how teams move to some degree. When to spread and which nodes are a bad push. Or in shatter I never see 2 people go left and 2 people go right in case first little spawn is side. When you see the same map every day multiple times of the day it grinds a little of the stupid out.

So we got more details. Plays similar to Seal Rock but once you have a point capped by your team you don't need to worry about it being taken over. You legit just go from one to another.

This is easily going to make the mode way more fun and force people to fight each other on the field as opposed to just defending the spot like in SR.

Deleting 24 man instead of 72 man was an act of sheer idiocy. Ideally bring back 48 man and just have that, but limiting it to 72 man only is going to have us dealing with the same dumb queue issues once again... Once the "hype" dies down anyway... We're only seeing frequent 72 man right now because of the Garo event ending and Treasure Trove event, once those end it'll be new content hype for the new map, then it'll die because 72 man wont fill fast enough or frequent enough for people to tolerate the long queues.

really going to miss seize 24 :\

Can't be more glad with all the overall PvP changes. Unlimited recall, overhauled less landslidy battle high, and most of all the end of 24 player FL. If the hours were too late and I got into one of those I just rather have been put into The Feast.

Glad you'll be able to keep doing your chaotic mess zerglines matches in the near future, for a few months while they hype might still be there assuming you queue during prime time.