Square Enix prosperously ignores the housing issue to promote filling out Servers

Its literally is the only thing that makes sense to me, if you dont want to add more plots? thats fine. then allow private plots like the apartment system with tons of room for small houses so players who have lives can enjoy the housing mechanics other than a small room. Its a complete have and have not system which is disgusting.

I seriously dont have any hatred towards the devs directly, its more sheer annoyance with the amount of housing items this game burys you in, it feels like im being taunted. Like the Summer fest thing, the pool. " HERES SOMTHING FUN TO DECORATE YOUR HOUSE for 10% OF THE PLAYER BASE!" I mean wtf!

Or, it could be that housing doesn't affect a large enough percentage of the player base to devote a large amount of resources to. I'm sure they want server populations to balance out, but when they added new wards the last time I relocated to a larger house in one of the new Wards. After the time when only FCs and relocators were allowed to buy homes, there were only seven plots taken in my ward, seven. Then when it opened up to everyone, it took weeks to fill up. If housing were as important to players as its made out to be sometimes, all the wards would have filled up in days, not weeks. You figure probably two-thirds of the player base don't have houses, but you only see a small number of players at any given time camping a placard. SE probably figures they're a lot of things that affect a much larger percentage of the player base they can devote resources too.

Instanced Housing, revamping apartments, is the cost/benefit there for them to take on these types of projects?

Here we go again..

Okay! First, SE is not "ignoring the housing issue". They've said time and time again at both FanFests this year and in the Live Letters that they know it's an issue and are working Post-Shadowbringers launch to try and fix said issue. But this takes time, considering the line they have to tread. Given the Dataload burden on Data-centers, grandfathered players not being effected (or punished) by the new systems and such.

Secondly, they're not promoting server fill-out as a solution. They're trying to promote evening out the NA player numbers because we're all clustered on a handful of servers. NA is the only region (that I know of) that has two datacenters. Meaning 16 servers. I wouldn't know factual numbers, but I know on the Crystal Datacenter, Balmung, Mateus and such are still pretty much near at-cap, despite having world-visit and compensation for lowering the server-burden by moving to a less clustered one. All in all trying to help avoid an entire Data-center crash, as I'm sure plenty of NA players remember just how infuriating it was when the entire data-center went down because SOMETHING happened on Balmung because it was cramped to bursting at the seams.

Thirdly, they can't just "add more plots" or change the Apartment systems. The Apartments are meant to be small, affordable spaces for people to try their hand at the Housing System, without having to fork out millions of Gil and fight other players for something you may not know you want to even do. For them to make Apartments bigger, then they would have to make Small Houses bigger by comparison to keep its worth value, then that sadly comes with a domino effect. If they make smalls bigger, then they have to touch mediums and larges to not piss off their more wealthy (or lucky) players. Then we're back to step 1.

Adding more plots will not fix the issue. It'll only make it worse. The Dataload issue (all of your characters data. Everything they've done and I mean EVERYTHING carries around with your character) is the main concern. With more houses, comes more data to put into players back pockets, meaning loading times and teleportation would be more taxing on the server and clog up the metaphorical travel tubes. They have already pointed out that people with high Data values (For example, someone from the Mew FC) spam-teleported around. it could crash a server because of the burden it puts on the server. Purely without even meaning to!

(No hate meant for Mew. Just for examples sake, hope you don't mind)

I think upgradeable apartments are coming. They talked about small, medium and large and that they were looking into that. One has to hope that will be a part of this xpac and soon. The current apartments are far from interesting and decent apartments would make lots happy and reduce the demand for actual housing.

Relative to gardens we are getting farms I believe. I wonder if those will be a substitute for housing gardens and allow the user base to grow things they would normally do in a housing garden.

Let hope they address and clarify what is coming and what these will be able to do. 5.1 live letter info is coming on the 15th so lets hope we hear something.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I think upgradeable apartments are coming. They talked about small, medium and large and that they were looking into that. One has to hope that will be a part of this xpac and soon. The current apartments are far from interesting and decent apartments would make lots happy and reduce the demand for actual housing.

Relative to gardens we are getting farms I believe. I wonder if those will be a substitute for housing gardens and allow the user base to grow things they would normally do in a housing garden.

Let hope they address and clarify what is coming and what these will be able to do. 5.1 live letter info is coming on the 15th so lets hope we hear something.

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They've been pretty vague about farms, other than that minions will be tied to them. I wouldn't count on them including intercross gardening for to those without a house. It's one of those things where it's best to wait for SE to give us more specific information than get hopes up that it's what you've been wanting.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Here we go again..

Okay! First, SE is not "ignoring the housing issue". They've said time and time again at both FanFests this year and in the Live Letters that they know it's an issue and are working Post-Shadowbringers launch to try and fix said issue. But this takes time, considering the line they have to tread. Given the Dataload burden on Data-centers, grandfathered players not being effected (or punished) by the new systems and such.

Secondly, they're not promoting server fill-out as a solution. They're trying to promote evening out the NA player numbers because we're all clustered on a handful of servers. NA is the only region (that I know of) that has two datacenters. Meaning 16 servers. I wouldn't know factual numbers, but I know on the Crystal Datacenter, Balmung, Mateus and such are still pretty much near at-cap, despite having world-visit and compensation for lowering the server-burden by moving to a less clustered one. All in all trying to help avoid an entire Data-center crash, as I'm sure plenty of NA players remember just how infuriating it was when the entire data-center went down because SOMETHING happened on Balmung because it was cramped to bursting at the seams.

Thirdly, they can't just "add more plots" or change the Apartment systems. The Apartments are meant to be small, affordable spaces for people to try their hand at the Housing System, without having to fork out millions of Gil and fight other players for something you may not know you want to even do. For them to make Apartments bigger, then they would have to make Small Houses bigger by comparison to keep its worth value, then that sadly comes with a domino effect. If they make smalls bigger, then they have to touch mediums and larges to not piss off their more wealthy (or lucky) players. Then we're back to step 1.

Adding more plots will not fix the issue. It'll only make it worse. The Dataload issue (all of your characters data. Everything they've done and I mean EVERYTHING carries around with your character) is the main concern. With more houses, comes more data to put into players back pockets, meaning loading times and teleportation would be more taxing on the server and clog up the metaphorical travel tubes. They have already pointed out that people with high Data values (For example, someone from the Mew FC) spam-teleported around. it could crash a server because of the burden it puts on the server. Purely without even meaning to!

(No hate meant for Mew. Just for examples sake, hope you don't mind)

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Why would they have to increase small house size if apartment size is increased when small houses are still bigger than apartments and have gardens?

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Why would they have to increase small house size if apartment size is increased when small houses are still bigger than apartments and have gardens?

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Because if they increase Apartments to a notable degree, that would remove most of the value of the Small independant housing. Why fork out 4M+ gil for a small, when you can get an apartment for 1/10th the cost and is bigger on the inside?

Like I said in the previous post. It's a fine line they have to tread. No "solution" is going to come without some serious thought and SE (hopefully) have learned not to give any definite answers and to test the waters with the occassional drip, not by dumping concrete.

That and most of the new furniture they seem to be adding is predominantly interior stuff. Everything you want from a Small house can be achieved with an apartment (excluding cross-breeding, but I haven't met many that willingly do that beyond just getting Thav. Onions to avoid the weighty cost on the MB).

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Originally Posted by Kenky

They have already pointed out that people with high Data values (For example, someone from the Mew FC) spam-teleported around. it could crash a server because of the burden it puts on the server. Purely without even meaning to!

(No hate meant for Mew. Just for examples sake, hope you don't mind)

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Not that I disregard your whole post, but characters holding on to these houses carry very little with them (as we use Free Company chests for storage) and rarely teleport. Everything is set up to be time efficient.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Why would they have to increase small house size if apartment size is increased when small houses are still bigger than apartments and have gardens?

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You have a lot to learn.

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Originally Posted by Big_Bap

Not that I disregard your whole post, but characters holding on to these houses carry very little with them (as we use Free Company chests for storage) and rarely teleport. Everything is set up to be time efficient.



You have a lot to learn.

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Mmm nah I dont think so. I want everyone to be satisfied. Home and apartment owners

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Mmm nah I dont think so. I want everyone to be satisfied. Home and apartment owners

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Hilarious. House owners are not gonna be satisfied by your proposed changes. You clearly do not understand anything about housing in this game.

I don't mean to stir the pot of this debate, but I wanted to add that I wouldn't mind if apartment owners could have an apartment the same size as my home. I would just want them to pay a similar amount for the size of their apartment. Maybe lowest grade plot price minus 10% for not having a yard or neighborhood location.

A small/medium/large apartment at the current apartment price would be awful, though. I think the apartment size price needs to be similar to the usual price.

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Originally Posted by Miralyth

I don't mean to stir the pot of this debate, but I wanted to add that I wouldn't mind if apartment owners could have an apartment the same size as my home. I would just want them to pay a similar amount for the size of their apartment. Maybe lowest grade plot price minus 10% for not having a yard or neighborhood location.

A small/medium/large apartment at the current apartment price would be awful, though. I think the apartment size price needs to be similar to the usual price.

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Isn't the price of a small plot about 5mil by default? You want people paying 4.5mil for a small apartment if I'm reading this correctly.

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Originally Posted by Wolfsbane706

Isn't the price of a small plot about 5mil by default? You want people paying 4.5mil for a small apartment if I'm reading this correctly.

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It depends on the price you're comparing to. They start off 3 to 3.75 mil depending on the plot grade, then there's the minimum pricing that's between 1.5 & 1.9 mil. You also have to take into account that apartments don't really have a view choice other than picking a district. Personally the outside portion is more valuable to me than the inside. I would probably lop off 30-40% off the price due to lack of yard space. If they could add a balcony space for outdoor furniture/gardening(obviously pre-built skybox/neighborhood stored client-side), then maybe take slightly less off, but lack of view choice would still be worth less.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

It depends on the price you're comparing to. They start off 3 to 3.75 mil depending on the plot grade, then there's the minimum pricing that's between 1.5 & 1.9 mil. You also have to take into account that apartments don't really have a view choice other than picking a district. Personally the outside portion is more valuable to me than the inside. I would probably lop off 30-40% off the price due to lack of yard space. If they could add a balcony space for outdoor furniture/gardening(obviously pre-built skybox/neighborhood stored client-side), then maybe take slightly less off, but lack of view choice would still be worth less.

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800k gil is still a lot to be paying out for a small apartment.

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Originally Posted by Wolfsbane706

800k gil is still a lot to be paying out for a small apartment.

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If it's upgrading the room to a small house size and doubling the item limit (+storage increase), I don't think that's much at all, especially when you tie in the safety of it not getting eaten by auto-demolition.

Apartments should be fully customisable, in terms of space since it does not have a basement and higher floors.

It doesn't even need to have the option to upgrade to a medium or large apartment.

It should be sold, with wide vertical and horizontal spaces out of the box.

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Originally Posted by Wolfsbane706

Isn't the price of a small plot about 5mil by default? You want people paying 4.5mil for a small apartment if I'm reading this correctly.

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My intention is a lot more like what Dustytome described. Most smalls I've seen friends purchase (or that I've seen open plots for) are around 3M. My 10% less figure was a bit arbitrary. For the sake of description, let's say small houses are always 3M gil. Since an apartment doesn't have a garden or an outdoor location, I think anything between 1.8-2.5M gil is fine to pay for one (if people think it should be lower or higher is up to them, I just personally wouldn't be upset with anywhere in this range). Apartments do have the advantage of not being demolished, as Dustytome said.

Also, this is for an apartment with the same layout as a small home. I don't mean the standard apartments we have now. If you still disagree with the figures I've expanded here, I'm sorry to hear that. That's just how I feel about it and I wanted to add, since the discussion was on the topic.

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Originally Posted by Big_Bap

Hilarious. House owners are not gonna be satisfied by your proposed changes. You clearly do not understand anything about housing in this game.

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And you know everything right? Thats what you and your elk keep spouting on every single post in these threads. I remember why I set your kind to ignore..

I'm highly in favor of an instanced form of housing with purchasable upgrades. I feel like they could expand apartments for this purpose and the upgraded interiors could simply be what we already have for small, medium and large houses. So you buy the apartment for 500k. If you want to upgrade to a large apartment (small house interior) it's 2 mill (arbitrary figure, just an example). If you want to then upgrade again to medium, it's another - say - 10 mill. And so on. For outside decorating, they could add a purchasable terrace.

If they also add the ability to crossbreed and access the workshop outside of housing, then the housing in the wards really would be a luxury, and not gating players from any content.

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Originally Posted by Big_Bap

Not that I disregard your whole post, but characters holding on to these houses carry very little with them (as we use Free Company chests for storage) and rarely teleport. Everything is set up to be time efficient.

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While I don't disagree that doing some things certainly could help loads, there isn't much we know as to what holds onto our characters. It could be as little as just whats in your bags, or it could be as deadly as every little byte of data.

Such as, but not limited to:
FC you're in
How many members your FC has
Linkshells
Cross-world Linkshells
Individual players in those Linkshells
Dungeons completed (and active tracking on how many you have done)
Achievements obtained

The list gets pretty damn long and we don't truly know which has an effect, or if they are actively tracked. Individually, they're rather harmless. But they add up, especially with X number of players also holding comparable amounts of data doing the same things.

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Originally Posted by Miralyth

My intention is a lot more like what Dustytome described. Most smalls I've seen friends purchase (or that I've seen open plots for) are around 3M. My 10% less figure was a bit arbitrary. For the sake of description, let's say small houses are always 3M gil. Since an apartment doesn't have a garden or an outdoor location, I think anything between 1.8-2.5M gil is fine to pay for one (if people think it should be lower or higher is up to them, I just personally wouldn't be upset with anywhere in this range). Apartments do have the advantage of not being demolished, as Dustytome said.

Also, this is for an apartment with the same layout as a small home. I don't mean the standard apartments we have now. If you still disagree with the figures I've expanded here, I'm sorry to hear that. That's just how I feel about it and I wanted to add, since the discussion was on the topic.

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I don't think I've ever seen the inside of a Small. But yeah, basement, second floor, and a view would be worth a mil or two. Also, a place to stash all the junk I keep accumulating . . . .

EDIT: Proofreading is my friend!

If i could turn my apartment into a high end condo where I can nearly do everything a home owner can I would be very happy. I mean those studio apartments are just to small to want to do anything with it.

Hear hear, apartments should have more vertical and horizontal customization space, outdoor balcony aesthetics, and large scale indoor gardening capability.

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Originally Posted by Arthrun

If i could turn my apartment into a high end condo where I can nearly do everything a home owner can I would be very happy. I mean those studio apartments are just to small to want to do anything with it.

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If only outdoor furnishings could be used indoors. That'd absolve SE of a lot of grief. Sure, I'll sleep next to my chocobo stall! It ain't weird unless you make it weird! And ya, I'll plop a garden plot in my living room, np!

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

If it's upgrading the room to a small house size and doubling the item limit (+storage increase), I don't think that's much at all, especially when you tie in the safety of it not getting eaten by auto-demolition.

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Oh yeah, at that price it's still practically a steal. And it's also as you said, it can't be lost once purchased no matter how long a person is gone. It's essentially a one-time investment.

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They're trying to promote evening out the NA player numbers because we're all clustered on a handful of servers. NA is the only region (that I know of) that has two datacenters. Meaning 16 servers.

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3 datacenters. 24 servers.

Some of the NA housing issues stem from the JP housing crisis being significantly less, due to JP having 32 smaller servers on the same 3 datacenters (their servers lock/congest at roughly 65-70% of what the NA servers do) and a smaller overall population.

25% more houses for a smaller playerbase makes the numbers look a LOT better over there.

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Originally Posted by Delphinus

Its literally is the only thing that makes sense to me, if you dont want to add more plots? thats fine. then allow private plots like the apartment system with tons of room for small houses so players who have lives can enjoy the housing mechanics other than a small room. Its a complete have and have not system which is disgusting. I mean wtf!

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Yes! I absolutely agree. They can make instanced housing like apartments for the Small-sized plots, and have the bigger neighborhood type for M and L sizes only. That would give players the chance to at least have a small they can't lose, as well as more chances for bigger-sized plots.

I find it funny that the only people who are all "SE is doing nothing wrong, everything is fine!" are the ones who already have a house.
I have one already but I still believe the system is a tad broken and I feel awful for my friends who doesn't have houses.

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Originally Posted by rance-sama

I find it funny that the only people who are all "SE is doing nothing wrong, everything is fine!" are the ones who already have a house.
I have one already but I still believe the system is a tad broken and I feel awful for my friends who doesn't have houses.

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Most of the player base doesn't care about housing so they aren't even part of these discussions. Pretty sure many of their comments would be along the lines of "everything is fine with housing" even though they don't own a house.

I don't know of anyone who does care about housing that thinks everything is fine. Everyone has their ideas on what needs to be improved but those ideas differ. A lot of the disagreement comes from those ideas that only exchange one problem for another while not fixing the core problem (like asking for a lottery), or are unrealistic for the game's design (allow infinite expansion of the existing wards so people can always have a house even if they stop playing the game for several months).

Like you, I've got friends who don't have a house but would like one. I'd love for that to happen for them and everyone else who wants one. I know that's not going to happen if SE sticks with the ward system, and the current instanced system (apartments) isn't satisfying for many because of the small size and interior limitation. It's why the game needs an enhanced instanced system like so many other MMOs have (or did have when they were still operating). Even just making it possible for apartments to have size options equal to house interiors would be a big step in the right direction.

We know that SE is not ignoring housing despite the claims of some players. They've mentioned several things over the past couple of years - adding those size options to apartments, setting things up so all characters on an account are automatically tenants of a house owned by one of those characters, developing technology so instanced areas can view "adjacent" non-instanced areas, possibly increasing item limits again now that PS3 support is gone. Hopefully they're close to implementing some of these things but like most game developers, they've learned not to say too much before they're ready to implement because players can take statements the wrong way and turn them into promises that devs never made.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Most of the player base doesn't care about housing so they aren't even part of these discussions. Pretty sure many of their comments would be along the lines of "everything is fine with housing" even though they don't own a house.

I don't know of anyone who does care about housing that thinks everything is fine. Everyone has their ideas on what needs to be improved but those ideas differ. A lot of the disagreement comes from those ideas that only exchange one problem for another while not fixing the core problem (like asking for a lottery), or are unrealistic for the game's design (allow infinite expansion of the existing wards so people can always have a house even if they stop playing the game for several months).

Like you, I've got friends who don't have a house but would like one. I'd love for that to happen for them and everyone else who wants one. I know that's not going to happen if SE sticks with the ward system, and the current instanced system (apartments) isn't satisfying for many because of the small size and interior limitation. It's why the game needs an enhanced instanced system like so many other MMOs have (or did have when they were still operating). Even just making it possible for apartments to have size options equal to house interiors would be a big step in the right direction.

We know that SE is not ignoring housing despite the claims of some players. They've mentioned several things over the past couple of years - adding those size options to apartments, setting things up so all characters on an account are automatically tenants of a house owned by one of those characters, developing technology so instanced areas can view "adjacent" non-instanced areas, possibly increasing item limits again now that PS3 support is gone. Hopefully they're close to implementing some of these things but like most game developers, they've learned not to say too much before they're ready to implement because players can take statements the wrong way and turn them into promises that devs never made.

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I have read several posts from you in recent days. I hope SE is listening because your calm responses and solid ideas are exactly what they should be listening to.

As an aside, and while this is anecdotal, pretty much every person on my friends list either has a home or is interested in having one. This is why this matters to me - and it seems like many people feel the same way. So saying people with homes don't care is not necessarily true. Instead I would wager that because it isn't an issue for them, many just aren't here on the forums posting about it.