Faster Combo attacks -Global Cooldown-

Good Morning!

I am wondering what the community's feeling about lowering the cooldown to the combo resource generator abilities.

I believe, at least for me, that is a turn off of the game. I may get a lot of flack for this comment but, the combinations feel very slow, and not as engaging as they could be. i am not exactly sure what the global cooldown mechanic is set at, i believe 1.5 seconds?

if so would it be too much to ask for to have it lowered to 1 second? you can really feel the drag at its current setting.

Gobal Cooldown is 2.5 seconds. I think the reasoning behind leaving it that way will have to do with programming and server restrictions. Someone will surely correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the way it runs now is that when you use a skill or spell, the client first checks with the server if you are able to use it, then executes the skill.

GCD is 2.5 seconds, but it's at that so that you can use OGCDs between your GCDs. Lowering the GCD on combo abilities wouldn't make the game any more interesting imo, it'd just increase the time you spend spamming your main combo and not other abilities.

If you're not max level though, there's a decent amount of classes that suffer for it, because you don't get all your abilities until higher levels, so I can see the sentiment. I think the issue is really just with how low-level skills are handed out though, vs how the game plays at max level with a 2.5s GCD.

whoa 2.5 seconds. ok thats much worse than i imagined. However i can absolutely understand the point that at max level you see it less and less, or even not at all. Good point.

I would also agree that it does bug greatly at lower levels. and instances where you are restricted from using your abilities to their full extent. I.E Roulettes/PvP.

You both make great points, and i appreciate it very much.

As a side note, people have looked through logs to see how certain classes fare against each other, including casts per minute, and the average was around 38 CPM, where a 1.5s GCD is equal to 40 CPM (and there were some jobs like BRD/MCH/NIN that were a decent amount above that)

If you're leveling warrior, your CPM is probably on the lower end, but I think in general they want tank dps rotations to be simpler so they can focus more on dealing with mechanics/mitigation properly.

Lowering the GCD would just make combat worse.

One of the gripes quite a few players have with the combat system is it's already to convoluted and spammy. Many of the buttons classes have basically exist for no reason at all other than to make busy work for players, they don't actually make for fun engaging game play or anything like that.

Reducing the GCD to make that spamming even faster wouldn't do anything for engaging game play because many of the buttons are still just pointless busy work.

I have no real issue with the pace of combat even at low levels where it can feel much slower. The real issue comes from the lack of engagement or impact you get from pressing your buttons that's what makes it boring not the pace..

Yeah at higher levels OGCDs mean you often lack time to get everything out and many materia builds actively avoid skill or spell speed to prevent clipping and weaving issues.

That noted the OCGs don’t show up until post 50 so early game feels really slow compared to level 120 WoW... and I say level 120 WoW on purpose. Go try Classic WoW and then you will revel at how fast the 2.5 second GCD feels here...
- while WoW has a maybe 1.5 second GCD many abilities have a queue or long cast time. I have hit abilities and then waited up to 5 seconds for them to trigger... such as level 1 Heroic Strike fir Warrior. Or cast a spell with a cast time of 3-4 seconds and a cooldown over 10 seconds that uses 1/3 of total mana which takes 20-30 seconds to regen enough for cast number 4... and it’s my only spell.

Suddenly FFXIV at low level feels... not fast, but smooth and even in pacing...

WoW Classic has been very illuminating in showing me how nostalgia has warped my perception of other games... such as misleading me into thinking FFXIV is slow. In the same way that 90 minute queues as a DPS in retail WoW have made me re-examine my issues with a “long” 5-minute queue on DPS here...

I suspect my WoW resub to look at Classic won’t survive more than a month or two...

Someone has a video of a monk from a few years ago HWs I think, with every speed buff possible. The game can't register the attacks.

No thanks. It's good where it is, and there's classes with faster attacks if 2.4-2.5s is too slow for you.


This is still an RPG, not Tekken or whatever. They struck a fair balance.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

No thanks. It's good where it is, and there's classes with faster attacks if 2.4-2.5s is too slow for you.

This is still an RPG, not Tekken or whatever. They struck a fair balance.

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On the other hand, 2.5 seconds feels incredibly slow when compared to a game like WoW that has a 1-1.5 second GCD. It may not seem like a big difference on paper, but played side by side that extra second makes XIV's combat feel like molasses.

Now of course this game was designed around 2.5 seconds. It works really well here and I don't see any reason to lower it. Let's not pretend like faster combat can't work in an RPG though.

2.5 is only the base GCD though.

Skill Speed/Spell Speed is a thing on this game. You can always pick a class with inherited abilities that increase their GCD speed (Monk, Samurai, Ninja) and, on top of that, go for a gear build heavily focused on speed.

Pretty sure it won't feel as slow anymore if you try it.

You won't see this as an issue at max level, because you use Off global CDs in between Gcd, some classes would be absolutely horrible at low CD, example Ninja using mundras will be in clipping hell because gcd is too low.

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On the other hand, 2.5 seconds feels incredibly slow when compared to a game like WoW that has a 1-1.5 second GCD. It may not seem like a big difference on paper, but played side by side that extra second makes XIV's combat feel like molasses.

Now of course this game was designed around 2.5 seconds. It works really well here and I don't see any reason to lower it. Let's not pretend like faster combat can't work in an RPG though.

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One more reason for me to not play WoW, I guess.

I never said it couldn't work. I'm just saying that most RPGs haven't revolved around twitch gaming and tons of inputs, and I'm personally not a fan of the ones that do.

Well... my answer is yes, i would like for the GCD to be shorter, even with the off GCD abilities.

But if the game is busted and the GCD is that long cause of it, all we can do is tell the devs to fix their engine. Just the delay from the game checking server side before activating your ability feels awful i'll be honest. The game is not very responsive and i do wish they fixed that.

Now, it isn't unplayable, but i do wish they fixed it. I'm sure they got the money for it now.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Well... my answer is yes, i would like for the GCD to be shorter, even with the off GCD abilities.

But if the game is busted and the GCD is that long cause of it, all we can do is tell the devs to fix their engine. Just the delay from the game checking server side before activating your ability feels awful i'll be honest. The game is not very responsive and i do wish they fixed that.

Now, it isn't unplayable, but i do wish they fixed it. I'm sure they got the money for it now.

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Do you think about or realize what would be necessary to alter the base gcd at this point in development. Every single encounter would need to be changed. It will never happen. The GCD is fine and works well when you are capped. Is it a bit slow at the start? All mmos are slow at the start.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

This is still an RPG, not Tekken or whatever. They struck a fair balance.

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This comparison doesnt really work terribly well IMO.

The thing is with this game for example your endlessly pressing buttons with barely a second to let up endless spam spam spam more buttons.

by comparison to games such as tekken the amount f buttons you press is much more dynamic and i'd even wager significantly lower. unless you're a literal button bash and hope type player. if your oponent is throwing a string of hits at you then you can literally go several seconds just holding down the block button. or waiting for the opportune moment to press the attack reversal button. and then if you go on the offensive you might have more buttons to press to keep your attacks stringing together but sometimes it's really not that many even for some of the more powerful sequences.

so yeah you have periods where you gotta press 10 or 20 buttons in a few seconds but then have just as many moments where you have a few seconds where you might only press 2 or 3 buttons.

if you averaged it out i'd wager a game like tekken requires less actions per minute than 14s combat system does. even if the combat does feel a lot faster in something like tekken

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Originally Posted by Dzian

if you averaged it out i'd wager a game like tekken requires less actions per minute than 14s combat system does. even if the combat does feel a lot faster in something like tekken

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Not even close. People have mathed out a bunch of FF14's job rotations and at worst they can reach upwards of 40 cpm, whereas something as simple as a fireball in games like that is comprised of 3-4 button inputs, and some combo chains can reach upwards of 10-20 inputs within a few seconds. For one combo chain. Across a 60 second round comprised of a ton of these combo chains.

I've watched my bf play fighting games before, and I can guarantee you he's pressing 3-4x as many buttons in those games per minute than he ever would in FF14, even factoring in guarding. FF14 is pretty slowmode in comparison.

I will never get how people can ask for a lower gcd when there is already so much players out there who cant dps between their heals, use their cds while tanking, avoid aoes correctly, use a correct rotation, and so on. The only way it would not lead to a big decrease in the amount of decent players, and in a big increase of those posting in the "tales from df" topic going mad in every roulettes they do, would be by scrapping 85% of the job skills from the game so that each job end up being a 3 buttons smashfest.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

On the other hand, 2.5 seconds feels incredibly slow when compared to a game like WoW that has a 1-1.5 second GCD. It may not seem like a big difference on paper, but played side by side that extra second makes XIV's combat feel like molasses.

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I disagree.

See my post only a few above yours.

In WoW the GCD is the fastest you get. Many factors like abilities that queue to a future auto attack or have slow casts or long cooldowns make you slower... Here it’s the floor, and OGCDs make actual play faster.

As I noted above, these past few days I have been playing the low levels of WoW alongside here... and WoW is noticeably not just slower but also unevenly paced... one ability is 2 seconds to see it hit, the next is 10, the next is 0, and the one that was 10 is 3 the next time you use it because it’s timed to auto attacks...

At max level, WoW plays at about the speed of level 50-60 here. Half of our OGCDs, but that is only because my 120 is a dragoon... er... survival hunter... if she was a caster she’d be like a blackmage minus the instant cast abilities...

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Originally Posted by MariaArvana

Not even close. People have mathed out a bunch of FF14's job rotations and at worst they can reach upwards of 40 cpm, whereas something as simple as a fireball in games like that is comprised of 3-4 button inputs, and some combo chains can reach upwards of 10-20 inputs within a few seconds. For one combo chain. Across a 60 second round comprised of a ton of these combo chains.

I've watched my bf play fighting games before, and I can guarantee you he's pressing 3-4x as many buttons in those games per minute than he ever would in FF14, even factoring in guarding. FF14 is pretty slowmode in comparison.

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Nah I used to be really into tekken and soul caliber games and honestly unless your a button bashing moron the number of inputs isn't anywhere near that high.

It's kinda like how here when you watch peoples you tune streams and what not you see them mashing the next GCD 10 or 15 times waiting for its cool down..

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This comparison doesnt really work terribly well IMO.

The thing is with this game for example your endlessly pressing buttons with barely a second to let up endless spam spam spam more buttons.

by comparison to games such as tekken the amount f buttons you press is much more dynamic and i'd even wager significantly lower.

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It wasn't meant to be a solid comparison, I haven't even played a Tekken game before. I just know that in most fighting games I've seen, there's a hell of a lot more inputs than in this game. Replace it with something more fitting if you wish.

I play a sks Sam, with a 1.99 GCD (shooting for 1.98). With Shinten spam, Kaiten, Senei/Guren, Third Eye' Senei, Hagakure, etc, being used in between, I never really feel slow.

FF14, with a wide choice of content, is targetting a large audience. A good part of it dont care about combat at all, and is here for the crafting, housing, the lore, etc.

Fighting games on the contrary are targetting a specific audience who like combat content, and are used to the gameplay who goes along with it.

Imo you can't really compare the two and say "let's bring a shorter gcd in FF14 because people press more buttons in mortal kombat !". Because they dont aim at the same customers at all.

The Dark Souls serie being successful does not mean that it would be fine to make FF14 MSQ as hard and punishing as it XD

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Originally Posted by Akonyl

GCD is 2.5 seconds, but it's at that so that you can use OGCDs between your GCDs. Lowering the GCD on combo abilities wouldn't make the game any more interesting imo, it'd just increase the time you spend spamming your main combo and not other abilities.

If you're not max level though, there's a decent amount of classes that suffer for it, because you don't get all your abilities until higher levels, so I can see the sentiment. I think the issue is really just with how low-level skills are handed out though, vs how the game plays at max level with a 2.5s GCD.

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2.5 GCD is the base GCD speed, by the time you hit max level it is lower due to skill/spell speed stat. Honestly, any lower GCD and the animations on my DRG will just look...silly to the point of why even bother having animations.