The devs have mentioned a few times that they would like to put in an area similar to the Golden Saucer after 2.0 hits. For those not in the know, The Golden Saucer was a place where you could go and play games to get away from the grind of the actual adventure.
After reading about this, I decided to come up with a concept for a card game that could be both fun and simple and replicate ff14's combat (sorry DoH/DoL's :( ).
WARNING: I will not be posting a tl;dr version of this :D
I'm not expecting this to actually be put into the game (it IS just an idea, after all) and I am open to any questions/comments. I'll reserve my next post for some card concepts (again, not gonna post pics since I draw like I'm f***ing 4 xD )Quote:
Umbral Break
Named after the current ongoing 7th Umbral Era storyline and serves as a legacy to players who have experienced pre-2.0 and to hopefully intrigue players post-2.0. I just added break to the title since it appears in several forms throught the Final Fantasy series (Limit Break, Sphere Break, Break [petrification])...so why not here? :D
Object
To be the first player to defeat your opponent's Party.
Zones
I'm not gonna upload pictures since my drawings look like s**t, but since there are only three zones (not counting your hand) I think it'll be pretty straightforward.
Deck: Place your deck here. A deck may contain no less than 30 cards (not counting Character cards).
Character Zones: Arrange your Character cards horizontally in any way you see fit. Use 4 Characters for a Light Party game or 8 Characters for a Full Party game.
Recast Zone: Place your used Action cards here. Cards in this zone return to the bottom of your deck after a certain number of turns have passed.
Card Attributes
There are two types of cards: Characters and Actions.
Characters: These cards start the game in the Character Zones (there are 8 empty slots, but only 4 or 8 are used depending on the type of game you're playing).
Characters will possess the following attributes (aside from their names):
HP - The Character's Health Points (in increments of 10). Once they reach 0, it's turned face down where it remains out of play. It can't be the target of any actions or abilities unless the card states otherwise. If the character took any previous damge, it recovers 10HP during your Replenish Step.
MP - The Character's Magic Points. A character will start off with 0MP and gain 10MP during your Replenish Step per turn. (Caps at 100MP)
TP - The Character's Tactical Points. A character will start off with 0TP. In order to gain TP, the Character must make a successful Auto-Attack or gain TP through the use of certain Actions/Character Abilities. (Caps at 100TP)
Abilitiy (or abilities, if any) - A Character may possess an ability that can be played during one of the game's steps. If an ability would activate during your Active Step, the corresponding Character cannot declare an auto-attack or use an equipped Action Card.
Actions: These cards will be in your deck. You can equip these to Character cards you control so that they can either employ powerful spells, utilize weapon skills, or use abilities that can help turn the tide of battle.
Actions will possess the following attributes (aside from their names):
Recast Value - The number of turns a used Action Card must remain in the Recast Zone. Afterwards, it is placed on the bottom of your deck. If more than one card meets the conditions, you choose the order of the returned cards.
Type - The Action's type. There are three different ones; Spell, Weaponskill, and Ability.
HP/MP/TP Costs - The cost associated with using the Action Card (the cost is not applied when equipped to a character unless the card states otherwise).
Rules Text - What the Action does after a Character uses it in place of an Auto-Attack. After the card's effect is resolved, it is placed into the Recast Zone (see 'Recast Value' above).
Starting the Game
1) Place your Character cards horizontally in front of you in any order. During each of your Active Steps, the Characters will get to perform actions such as auto-attack or equipped actions. Place 4 Characters for a Light Party game, or 8 Characters for a Full Party game.
2) Shuffle your deck and draw 5 cards. A deck cannot contain less than 30 cards and cannot have more than 3 copies of a single card. Action Cards can sometimes state how many copies of itself are allowed in your deck.
3) Decide who goes first. You can flip a coin, roll a dice, etc. as long as it's fair.
Turn Progression
There are four Steps in a single turn of the game: Draw, Replenish, Passive, and Active
Draw Step: Draw 2 cards.
Replenish Step: During this step, Characters gain 10MP and Characters that have been damaged previously will gain 10HP. Also, Action Cards that are in your Recast Zone get one turn closer to returning to the bottom of your deck.
Passive Step: During this step, you may equip any of your characters with Action Cards. A Character can't have more than 3 Action cards equipped to it.
Active Step:Each of your characters with may do one of the following (unless they have 0HP):
1) Auto-Attack: Deal 10 damage to any of your opponent's characters and gain 10TP. If an Auto-Attack is prevented in any way, the Character doesn't gain any TP.
2) Action: Use ONE of a Character's equipped Action Card's. After the Action Card's effects have resolved, place it in the Recast Zone.
3) Ability: If a Character has an ability that would activate during the Active Step, you may choose to play it instead of an Auto-Attack or an equipped Action Card. Once the ability resolves, the next Character begins their attack (if applicable).
After each of your characters have completed their attacks, your opponent's turn begins. This continues until one player manages to defeat all 4 (Light Party) or 8 (Full Party) of their opponent's Characters.
Golden Saucer Card Game Suggestion: Umbral Break
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03-21-2012, 06:41 AMAntaniasGolden Saucer Card Game Suggestion: Umbral Break
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03-21-2012, 06:42 AMAntanias
Reserved for card concepts and other stuff (like what I initially removed before posting the op)
EDIT: Here are a few card ideas:
Highlander Pugilist/260HP
Character/Puglist
Ability) If ~ would be the target of an auto-attack, once a turn you may flip a coin. If heads, you may prevent that damage.
Second Wind/(2) <--Recast Value, fyi
Action/Ability
Recover 20 HP. If the equipped Character is a Pugilist, it recovers 30HP instead.
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 0
Aura Pulse/(4)
Action/Weapon Skill
Deal 30 damage to each opposing Character.
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 50
Elezen Gladiator/340HP
Character/Gladiator
Ability) If any of your other Characters would be attacked, flip a coin. If heads, ~ becomes the target of that attack.
Shield Bash/(3)
Action/Ability
Deal 20 damage to target Character. It cannot act during its controller's next Active Step.
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 20
Riot Blade/(5)
Action/Weapon Skill
Deal 20 damage to target Character. Until the end of your Active Step, your remaining Characters can deal 10 extra damage with their Auto-Attacks or equipped nonspell Actions.
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 40
Lalafell Marauder/320HP
Character/Marauder
Ability) During your Replenish Step, you may choose not to recover HP. If you do so, ~ deals 10 damage more (You cannot recover HP during your Replenish Step if this Character has full HP).
Bloodbath/(3)
Action/Ability
Whenever equipped Character deals damage during your next Active Step, equipped Character recovers HP equal to half of the damage dealt (rounded down).
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 0
Brutal Swing/(2)
Action/Weapon Skill
Deal 20 damage to target Character. If target Character is positioned to the left or right of the opposing Character directly facing equipped Character, Brutal Swing deals 10 more damage.
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 30
Maim/(4)
Action/Weapon Skill
Deal 40 damage to target Character.
COMBO - Maim: If equipped Character used Maim during your previous Active Step, it deals 10 more damage for each Action Card equipped (excluding this card). You do not lose TP if Maim successfully deals damage to an opposing Character.
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 50
Roegadyn Lancer/300HP
Character/Lancer
Ability) If ~ was attacked last turn and took 0 damage, you may flip a coin. If heads, ~'s next Auto-Attack or equipped Action deals 10 more damage.
Invigorate/(3)
Action/Ability
Equipped Character gains 20 TP. If equipped Character was a Lancer, it gains 30 TP instead.
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 0
Keen Flurry/(4)
Action/Ability
Equipped Character loses 40 HP. If equipped Character would use a Weapon Skill on its next turn, the TP cost for that Weapon Skill becomes 0 for that turn only. If equipped Character was a Lancer, the Recast Value of this card becomes 2.
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 0
Chaos Thrust/(7)
Action/Weapon Skill
~ can only be equipped to a Lancer.
Flip six coins. For each heads, deal 20 damage to target opposing Character.
COMBO - Impulse Drive: If equipped Character used Impulse Drive during your previous Active Step, flip four coins instead. Impulse Drive deals 50 damage to target opposing Character plus 30 damage for each heads. You do not lose TP if Chaos Thrust successfully deals damage to an opposing Character.
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 100
Miqo'te Conjurer/250HP
Character/Conjurer
Ability) Whenever ~ uses an equipped spell that recovers a Character's HP, flip a coin. If heads, that spell recovers an additional 10HP.
Cure/(1)
Action/Spell
Target Character recovers 20HP. If the equipped Character was a conjurer, that Character recovers an additional 10HP.
MP Cost: 10
TP Cost: 0
Aero/(2)
Action/Spell
Deal 20 damage to target Character, then flip a coin. If heads, that Character takes 10 damage during its controller's next Replenish Step (that Character doesn't recover HP during that Replenish Step).
MP Cost: 20
TP Cost: 0
Aerora/(5)
Action/Spell
Deal 30 damage to each opposing Character.
COMBO - Aero: If equipped Character used Aero during your previous Active Step, it deals 60 damage to target Character instead.
MP Cost: 60
TP Cost: 0
Hyur Thaumaturge/240HP
Character/Thaumaturge
Ability) Whenver ~ uses an equipped spell that deals damage, flip a coin. If heads, it deals 10 more damage to target Character (if the spell damages more than one opposing Character, choose only one).
Fire/(3)
Action/Spell
Deal 20 damage to each opposing Character.
MP Cost: 30
TP Cost: 0
Fira/(5)
Action/Spell
Deal 40 damage to each opposing Character.
COMBO - Fire: If equipped Character used Fire during your previous Active Step, it deals 50 damage to each opposing Character instead.
MP Cost: 40
TP Cost: 0
Firaga(8)
Action/Spell
Deal 70 damage to each opposing Character.
COMBO - Fira: If equipped Character used Fira during your two previous Active Steps, it deals 90 damage to each opposing Character instead.
MP Cost: 70
TP Cost: 0 -
04-06-2012, 07:39 AMSabaku_Usagi
This seems a little too in-depth for a mini-game. It seems more like a rehash of the MTG/Pokemon/etc. cards. While i'm not trying to put down your idea, I think simplification would help you out a lot.
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04-06-2012, 08:08 AMAntaniasIt was WAY more in-depth when I thought of it (There was a zone for field/dungeon cards for different rules, items, weapons, etc.) and I do realize there is still a long way to go before it's simple enough to implement. I do apologize for not putting anything in for Archer for the above reason. I also realize that the character abilities are a tad convoluted, but they're only placeholders in case something better can be implemented or made vanilla (no abilities, just have its own HP with the standard 100 cap on both mp and tp) entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku_Usagi
One of the things I wanted to aim for was NOT using a traditional discard pile/graveyard. You get to reuse some of your actions in-game so why not have a way of incorporating that aspect? I'm thinking for the 15min job abilities (once I figure out a way to put in jobs) the maximum recast value of 9 or have them turned face down in the recast zone where it remains "out of play" until the game's end. Another aspect was the "Light" and "Full" party versions to cater towards those who enjoy a regular game and those who don't have time, but would like to play.
Haven't figured out a way to obtain cards, but maybe a certain job/ability used against regular mobs could be a source.
I've been a long-time player of both games and they're still going strong so obviously they're doing something right :)Quote:
It seems more like a rehash of the MTG/Pokemon/etc. cards.
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04-21-2012, 06:13 PMDaniel_Fury
This would be fun ^^
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04-21-2012, 07:04 PMValmonte
Triple Triad or nothing. simple mechanics, complicated by the cards being fielded.
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04-21-2012, 08:35 PMColinoAgreed, the game needs to be something simple yet with enough depth to make it worth playing, just like Triple Triad. Anything more complicated than that would be a waste of time in all honesty, I wouldn't see enough people caring especially since the rewards will always be trivial (other cards).Quote:
Originally Posted by Valmonte
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05-15-2012, 06:20 PMLienn
tl;dr: Ya, necrobumped it because found it a nice idea.
Well, I was bored enough to read this...and i found it a raw yet interesting idea. I'd change it a bit tho.
a) Too much HP. Things can be much more strategic if you lower the HP and add ways of healing I particularly like the idea of the strongest attack being able to OHKO the target and the weakest attack being able to take like 10% of target's HP...so seeing you want a base 10 damage/healing I’d say 100 HP would be good enough for the bulkiest cards.
b) Remove TP and recast. You already have MP…no need of TP since here they would work the same way. Also, if you adding auto-attack, no need of MP regeneration. It would be, pretty much, you AA for low damage and MP generation or using actions for special effects with MP depletion.
c) Attack order is important. You can’t force the player to attack with left-to-right…letting players to pick the attacking order would favor the strategic gameplay.
d) Midgame upgrades. If you want players to have a static set of characters then you must support some strategic upgrading after the fight started. An example would be instead of having your “Highlander/Gladiator” with giant HP, you having just the “Highlander” card. Here the card types I’d use:
d.1) Character card. It has HP and clan ability. You pick them prior to fight and place them face down at your character zone. All character can AA so it doesn’t need to be indicated there (pretend everyone knows the AA deals standard 10 damage).
Example: Highlander - HP 60 - Ability: There can only be one! - Deals additional 10 damage against Highlander characters.
d.2) Weapon/Gear Card. It often offers you additional effects (like damage increase) or special attacks that replace the AA.
Example 1: Colossal Axe - Requires MRD – Attack: Broad Swing – Deals 10 damage to target and to all foes adjacent to it.
d.3) Class Card. Adds an additional ability or attack to the character.
Example: Gladiator – Ability: Block – If you have a shield equipped, every time you gets attacked you flip a coin and, if heads, you take no damage.
d.4) Job Card. Adds signature move and attribute bonus to the class card.
Example: Paladin – Requires Gladiator – HP+ 30 – Ability: Cover – Once per opponent turn you can move the target from one of foe’s attacks to this character.
d.5) Action/Weaponskill/Spell Card. Deals increased damage and/or special effects in exchange of MP depletion.
Example: Provoke – Consumes 40 MP to place provoke tokens at half of enemy characters (rounded down). Any target with provoke token can only attack Paladin characters. Remove one token every time that character damages a paladin character.
d.6) Food/Medicine Card. Cards that add temporary bonuses.
Example: Grilled Hare – Any damage dealt by this character will be increased by 10 damage until the end of the opponent’s next turn.
e) Restrictions. To keep balance some restrictions are important.
e.1) Only weapons flagged as 1-handed can stack with shield or another 1-handed weapon.
e.1) Food can stack with medicines as soon as one is food and the other medicine. You cannot stack 2 food cards or 2 medicine cards.
e.3) One character can have only one class and job attached to it, but you can remove any of them at any time during passive step and, for every card removed, the character receives 10 MP. However, if you remove a card that is requirement of another card, the other cards will be removed as well.
Example: If I have a paladin with a sword equipped, if I remove the gladiator card I’ll also be removing the paladin card and the sword card.
e.4) One character can be upgraded only once per turn (class, job or gear cards only) and the card upgraded cannot attack that turn.
Most of these points actually are just to add more strategic aspects to it since your game was a bit too “straight” regarding cards…if it was a good character card then it was a good character card…not leaving space for growth and ending like the good ol’ Yu-gi-oh that, when it started, was pretty much “who had the biggest number win earlier.”… -
05-15-2012, 10:47 PMwolfsspirit
Anyone remember the battle arena in golden saucer ? lol , i would like to see chocobo races and the arena ingame.
Also the cardgame in FF9 was pretty nice and not that hard to get the hang of it. -
05-15-2012, 11:54 PMKiriA500
What's up with this community and card games?
There are other types of mini-games, ya know. -
05-15-2012, 11:56 PMLienn
Card games are collectibles too, not just the game. Part of the fun is also collecting them. ^^
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05-16-2012, 12:14 AMValmonteSure but Triad is a classic, its made an appearance in few popular games most notably 8,9 and 11. its simple takes no prep time, but at the same time requires you to think and has its own risk/reward system.Quote:
Originally Posted by KiriA500
as a mini game its quick, fun and just efficient all round...not to mention card games are a traditional past time world round. -
05-16-2012, 12:23 AMwolfsspirit
I doubt many will play it as an on its own game..i know i wouldn't .
The golden saucer as an entertainment area with multiple different games could be and probly would be successfull when lots of people gather together however.
Thing is they at least need to bring in at least 5 different games and something for everyone.
A battle Arena (pvp and solo against mobs) would be a good start as would be the chocobo races , i can see both of them very popular especialy if the rewards are worth it.
Thinking of unique items.. unique currency and an unique shop where you can exchange them.. just like they done in the original golden saucer. -
05-16-2012, 07:00 AMAntaniasI had thought that if I gave the characters too few HP, the game wouldn't last long and have little to no strategical value. I think I could meet somewhere in the middle as far as the concepts go :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
I see your point here, but wouldn't it be odd keeping one or the other as far as mp/tp goes. As far as Recast goes, it's there to prevent a traditional discard pile from existing and thought it was a great way to incorporate the "spamming" of actions from ff14 itself. Of course, that doesn't mean that I'm not open to other suggestions.Quote:
b) Remove TP and recast. You already have MP…no need of TP since here they would work the same way. Also, if you adding auto-attack, no need of MP regeneration. It would be, pretty much, you AA for low damage and MP generation or using actions for special effects with MP depletion.
Upon looking at the system itself, it does seem kinda silly to go from left to right. When I initially thought of this concept, I was going along the lines of something that the game itself could keep track of easily. The thought wasn't to create a paper game, but rather an online one.Quote:
c) Attack order is important. You can’t force the player to attack with left-to-right…letting players to pick the attacking order would favor the strategic gameplay.
If characters start face down, then the game would always begin in a tie lol.Quote:
d) Midgame upgrades. If you want players to have a static set of characters then you must support some strategic upgrading after the fight started. An example would be instead of having your “Highlander/Gladiator” with giant HP, you having just the “Highlander” card. Here the card types I’d use:
d.1) Character card. It has HP and clan ability. You pick them prior to fight and place them face down at your character zone. All character can AA so it doesn’t need to be indicated there (pretend everyone knows the AA deals standard 10 damage).
Example: Highlander - HP 60 - Ability: There can only be one! - Deals additional 10 damage against Highlander characters.
On a serious note, I like this concept too. Still unsure of the lower HP, but perhaps it would be fine for a Light Party game :)
And:Quote:
d.2) Weapon/Gear Card. It often offers you additional effects (like damage increase) or special attacks that replace the AA.
Example 1: Colossal Axe - Requires MRD – Attack: Broad Swing – Deals 10 damage to target and to all foes adjacent to it.
If possible, there should be a way to combine these two in order to successfully mimic the Armory System. eg. the Axe automatically makes the Character a Marauder and gets the ability listed on the card.Quote:
d.3) Class Card. Adds an additional ability or attack to the character.
Example: Gladiator – Ability: Block – If you have a shield equipped, every time you gets attacked you flip a coin and, if heads, you take no damage.
I had thought of the soul crystals as items that could be used to change jobs, but I think you have something better here :DQuote:
d.4) Job Card. Adds signature move and attribute bonus to the class card.
Example: Paladin – Requires Gladiator – HP+ 30 – Ability: Cover – Once per opponent turn you can move the target from one of foe’s attacks to this character.
Like the concept, but I think it would make more sense if Provoke got a bonus from using it on a Marauder (since the ability is learned from that class).Quote:
d.5) Action/Weaponskill/Spell Card. Deals increased damage and/or special effects in exchange of MP depletion.
Example: Provoke – Consumes 40 MP to place provoke tokens at half of enemy characters (rounded down). Any target with provoke token can only attack Paladin characters. Remove one token every time that character damages a paladin character.
Delicious :)Quote:
d.6) Food/Medicine Card. Cards that add temporary bonuses.
Example: Grilled Hare – Any damage dealt by this character will be increased by 10 damage until the end of the opponent’s next turn.
Interesting, I'll definitely consider these. I especially like the food and medicine one.Quote:
e) Restrictions. To keep balance some restrictions are important.
e.1) Only weapons flagged as 1-handed can stack with shield or another 1-handed weapon.
e.2) Food can stack with medicines as soon as one is food and the other medicine. You cannot stack 2 food cards or 2 medicine cards.
e.3) One character can have only one class and job attached to it, but you can remove any of them at any time during passive step and, for every card removed, the character receives 10 MP. However, if you remove a card that is requirement of another card, the other cards will be removed as well.
Example: If I have a paladin with a sword equipped, if I remove the gladiator card I’ll also be removing the paladin card and the sword card.
e.4) One character can be upgraded only once per turn (class, job or gear cards only) and the card upgraded cannot attack that turn.
I feared adding items and such was gonna make things complicated, but you bring some pretty good suggestions to the table.Quote:
Most of these points actually are just to add more strategic aspects to it since your game was a bit too “straight” regarding cards…if it was a good character card then it was a good character card…not leaving space for growth and ending like the good ol’ Yu-gi-oh that, when it started, was pretty much “who had the biggest number win earlier.”…
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05-16-2012, 10:12 AMLienn
I left weapon and class separatedbecause weapons are focused on damage, changing the AA specifically, while the class card can change not only the AA but also any other aspect, as adding abilities or even extra attack options. They do can be one, but IMO having 2 is also important for strategy since you do can add weapons/gear at every hierachy point. You can make a ring card that has no restriction, an axe that can only be used by highlanders, a knife that requires GLA, a shield that requires PLD...this would add an strategic flexibility as a counterpart of the straight upgrade the highlander > GLA > PLD would propose.
About cards starting face down, it's exactly what you said...everyone starting in a tie. Making cards only being revealed as they are used or attacked is important to prevent "early gangbang" (the player using AA from all characters at same target to get your most important card down ASAP)...I know you meant a tie as "everyone starting dead" but i meant more like "everyone starting hidden" so to expose a card from your opponent you will need to expose at yours too. But if you want to prevent confusion, add tokens to face down cards...skull token = dead, ninja token = hidden. ^^
About left-to-right attack order, IMo it would limitate the gameplay because if, let's say, you want to use one card to buff another, you would be forced to have that card at most left zones, while your cards meant to just DD at most right zones, what would offer the players a starting prediction of what to attack first. "If you don't know what to do, start hitting the left ones that are the strategic cards"
About actions, i didn't say because you had it already of having them attached to characters instead of being discarded. Merging TP and MP would be just the same as the recast, restricting the rate whose actions are used If you have just MP you make its usage strategic since the player will be required to AA to store MP before attacking...the way you put (MP, TP, recast) you would offer an auto-regenerative mechanic that would require no strategy to use...the dude would just use MP because it would come back at end of turn, forcing exactly what you said...a cyclic spamming of actions based on MP and recast instead of a strategic usage of actions at only the right time.
But this all is just my opinion. IMO a "hide and ambush" always made things more fun than "draw your big sword and run straight to enemies" style of fight. ^^ -
05-16-2012, 10:47 AMAntaniasRead your entire post, but I'm gonna axe the left-right limitation since it won't affect anything major ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn