The question in the latest player poll that asked what we thought about the current crafting system, and many responses by the community about the subject has had me thinking lately.
While what I propose here isn't going to make crafting any more fun, it would (in theory) make it a bit less tedious.
Instead of gathering and creating plus 1 and plus 3 ITEMS of raw materials and parts in the game, wouldn't it save inventory space and streamline advanced crafting if instead we recieved plus 1-3 shards and crystals while gathering?
This system would still have the player relying predominantly on gathering as a means of obtaining plus one crystals and shards, just as that is how we rely on gathering plus 1-3 mats. It would save a ridiculous amount of storage space in our inventory and storage, as crystals don't take up any space.
As an example of what I mean by this consider the following scenario:
A level 26 weaver wants to craft a Cotton-halfrobe. The ingrediants of which are 2x Undyed cotton cloth, x1 Cotton Yarn, and x1 Sheep Leather along with x4 lightning shards and x3 wind shards. If said Weaver wanted to create a +1 version of this robe, his only means of increasing his odds of doing so (besides getting to a higher level with his Weaver) would be to buy or create +1-3 versions of the materials needed for synthesis, the raw materials for which would also need to be +1-3 and gathered or bought on auction.
In the proposed system above, instead of needing the various plus 1-3 versions of the materials needed for the synth, the Weaver could increase his odds by using any +1-3 wind or lightning shards he has available to him through gathering or purchasing them on auction. The actual amount each +1-3 shard or crystal would boost quality could be made comprable to what the materials we use now do, but without all the space wasted through storing all the different +1-3 goods on top of normal goods like we do now.
The system would do away entirely with plus1-3 materials altogether.
They could even go so far as to spread out which type of +1-3 shards and crystals drop at which locations so as to control the flow of when and where players obtain them. For example, make it so your chances of obtaining a +3 fire crystal are much higher during weather events or in desert locations then if your gathering where its cold or near the ocean.
While this seems like a PRO crystal OP, I will be honest when saying this type of variation in the crafting system still has a few hurdles to overcome:
1: Would players crafting as an Alchemist be able to craft plus 1-3 crystals?
On the surface this would seem like a no brainer, and that they should. However, this would drastically shift the power of CREATING plus 1-3 mats to only one class.
Another option would be to spread out which crafting classes can attempt each crystal type (so for example only armorers could attempt making plus1-3 earth shards and crystals), but this would drastically alter many alchemist recipes.
2: Do you allow mobs a chance at dropping +1-3 crystals, or only allow their obtainment through crafting and gathering?
I suppose you couuld make it so only mobs much tougher than your current level or NM's drops them, but its a tough call.
What are your thoughts on this community? I know I am missing other potential problems with this system, but I would like to hear solutions or other ideas people have to improve the crafting system.
+1 Crystals Anyone?
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03-21-2012, 04:55 AMBiggs+1 Crystals Anyone?
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03-21-2012, 05:00 AMJinko
No thanks, not needed.
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03-21-2012, 05:08 AMTheVedis
Id rather us get a use for crystals and clusters again before we even consider anything else
but +1 shard = crystal
+1 crystal = cluster imo -
03-21-2012, 05:12 AMBiggsWell they certainly need to fix the rate at which fine sand is created or found because the current system has dropped the value of whole crystals completely. But something like that could easily be tackled by adjusting drops and how whole crystals are used as well as how fine sand is made. This would just take the place of how we boost quality while crafting while sparing our inventory space.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
Also, a plus 1 fire crystal would have a much higher chance of dropping more shards when desynthed than a normal fire crystal would is how I thought of it. Same for clusters. -
03-21-2012, 05:15 AMTheVedisno, fine sand isnt the issueQuote:
Originally Posted by Biggs
its the fact crystals just arent really used in recipes yet they keep us plentifuly supplied in them, we need crystals back in recipes themselves, clusters i can wait on, they never dropped a ton to begin with, but im sitting on 50k crystals easy as are many others and it just keeps rising -
03-21-2012, 05:18 AMBiggsI always got the impression that the original idea was to have crystals and clusters get used more once the level caps went up, but since that hasn't happened because of the rework, its now very low on the list. But I understand completely what you mean and don't really know why they havent added the use of whole crystals more in the newer recipes.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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03-21-2012, 05:21 AMTheVediscrystals were used ALOT before the recipe revisions started and made everything super cheap on the shard endQuote:
Originally Posted by Biggs
clusters were what we assumed was gonna come later, there was a single recipe that used them(not counting alchemy that turned into crystals) before they came in
now, theres a handful of recipes that use crystals, and nothing uses clusters -
03-21-2012, 06:03 AMScarface
No.
tl;dr... -
03-21-2012, 06:16 AMBiggs
I love how people just say "No" but contibute absolutely nothing to the actual conversation. Why no? Not that I have a probelm with dissagreeing with the OP, but if your answer is just "no" why post at all? Care to share other ideas that you think could potentially help things?
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03-21-2012, 06:18 AMAreeyaJaidee
No Thanks. We don't need to go back to +2 or +3 items. The end product will still clutter inventory because you still need mats + now the wards will once again have +2/+3 items which have already been made antiquated. So we're wasting SEs time asking to re-add all these items.
So one would argue: well +1/2/3 shards/crystals dont take up space.
^ You still have to have mats. If you want to HQ stock up on +1s if you dont then stock on NQs. If you dont know what should or should not be HQd then you need to stop crafting and start researching. -
03-21-2012, 06:19 AMScarfacetl;dr @ OP. Bad idea. That's why not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggs
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03-21-2012, 06:23 AMBiggs
Oh I see. Illiterate, check.
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03-21-2012, 06:26 AMBiggsOh make no mistake, I have no desire to go back to 1-3 mats either, I just mean to use this system as a means to replace the current system of boosting quality. You could actually use this to replace plus 1 materials completely. Was sort of the point. So no space is used at all for anything but basic materials, and if you would like to boost quality while crafting, you would use the crystals to instead. Whether or not they would then make +1-3 crystals or ONLY +1 crystals makes no difference to me, that would simply uncomplicate things even more.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
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03-21-2012, 06:50 AMXoo
Sort of off-topic, but whatever happened with the purpose of Deaspected Crystals?
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03-21-2012, 06:52 AMTheVedisthe vendor is still thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
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03-21-2012, 06:52 AMXooDon't follow.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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03-21-2012, 06:53 AMTheVedisyou turned them in for rewards, the vendor for the turnins is still there even if you cant currently earn anyQuote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
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03-21-2012, 06:56 AMXoo/slap Foxbat. Just 'cause I felt like it. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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03-21-2012, 07:01 AMJinko
I would agree with Vedis on this.
They could make both crystals and clusters relevant if they made recipes as follows:-
Shards - 1-20
Crystals - 21-44
Cluster - 45+
And have mobs drops them in those level ranges also. -
03-21-2012, 02:58 PMBiggsRight, and all that could still coincide with what I am saying, the purpose of the post is to streamline crafting and make it less clustered and reduce the amount of inventory needed to do it. Ved's post is still relevant even after implimenting something like this, but really has ZERO to do with what I am talking about in this particular OP. It wouldn't fix anything with the current crafting system besides making whole crystals relevant again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
Also, making clusters useful in synths 45 plus would then mean we would use them for 30-54 more leves depending on where they eventually put the level cap. You seem to forget that it won't stay at 50 forever, so they actually wouldnt need to start using clusters until the mid 60's, assuming of course they plan on taking the level cap to 75 or 99 eventually.
Its fine though, I think these forums have moved past disussions like this one and I see my error now in trying to have a conversation about something everyone loves to bitch about but no one seems to want to try and discuss how to fix. Its SE's problem right? -
03-21-2012, 03:51 PMVaen
I totally agree with the OP because +1 mats take up WAY too much space on my retainers.
They could make it so you can trade your +1 mats for a bunch of +1 crystals, so your old +1 mats won't go to waste.
It might be hard for them to balance the drop rate of +1 crystals to match the current rate that we get +1 mats, but if it could be done, it would be amazing for saving us so much inventory space.
I think that mobs should still be able to drop +1 crystals, since mobs currently drop +1 mats all the time, but a)only if the mob is higher level than you and b) it should be easier to farm +1 crystals from gathering than it is from killing lots of mobs.
Seriously, past all the mats vs crystals business, the real issue here is INVENTORY SPACE. If you like to do multiple jobs at the same time (and you're not at 50 so you don't know exactly what items you don't need any more) then inventory space is a huge issue and the fact that +1 mats don't stack with regular mats make them take up A LOT more space.
p.s. I'm sorry that most people missed the entire point of your OP, Biggs :\ Too often people seem to form an opinion after reading the thread title and then they turn their brain off.
Also, you might want to take out the part about +3 items in your OP, since +3 items aren't being generated in the game any more and that's also contributing to people missing your point. -
03-21-2012, 03:56 PMJakeRoon
I agree a "plus one" crystal type thing should be added, make it just one rare type of crystal that you add to any recipe to make an item "plus one!!11!!" be way less annoying on inventory space.
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03-22-2012, 03:44 AMBiggsQuote:
Originally Posted by Vaen
Especially considering they have stated that they plan to reduce our personal inventory space once player housing is available. I assume we will get compinsated for that by the storage we will get with housing, but the fact remains the current plus 1 item system is cumbersome and inefficant. Thank you both. I don't necessarily think this is the BEST solution, but its an attempt at one. I have always been facinated with how this current team solves problems and will be interested to see how they tackle these issues in the future. I think the way they introduced materia and are phasing out old gear and gear recipes was brilliant. I hope they can continue in that trend when they move to tackle crafting itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
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03-22-2012, 03:53 AMdarkstarpoet1
i'm completely against it. if you want the crystal to be used to give the boost in quality to begin with then that's one thing, but i do not want to see +1 crystal = 100% hq item.
the whole process of getting hq mats is alot more involved than getting a crystal is and it isn't just given to you. i've seen enough of the give me this for nothing on these forums to think i am in a daycare center and not an adult community. i'd prefer to stay the way it is to get the hq materials than to rely on just getting a crystal and remove them. it gets rid of the only thing that is not just standard spam for crafters. -
03-22-2012, 04:01 AMDragon
I agree with the OP's idea, it's definitely worthy of SE's time to look into if for no other reason than the basis of something bigger, and I'd also like to suggest that SE looks into the option of being able to use more shards/crystals for a guaranteed NQ success.
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03-22-2012, 04:04 AMSynysterBlitz
Whats the point really?? we will have to go collect +1 shards/crystals/clusters.. so the time to collect +1 mats will be same more then likely.. all I really see from OP is that he can't manage inventory properly.. so naturally lets get rid of one system to put in system thats worse just to combat space..
My Opinion is flat out NO.. its not needed..
Learn2manageinventory -
03-22-2012, 08:39 AMBiggsWell, I am not actually asking to recieve plus 1 crystals any way differently than how you get plus one materials now. They would still be predominantly gathered items. You get shards and whole crystals now from gathering, so its actually not different at all. I even say in my post I am on the fence with how they would need to go about making them a craftable item, but at no point do I suggest having one +1 crystal equal 100 quality. In my opinion those formulas would need to be worked out as to reflect roughly what they are now. Obviously plus 1 shards would give much less of a quality bonus than a plus one whole crystal. At no point in time am I asking for them to GIVE me anything, all this would do is rework a system as to be as it is now but less cumbersome. They could still easily work it so you couldnt gather plus 1 crystals all in the same spot, just as it is now with gathering plus 1 items.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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03-22-2012, 08:44 AMBiggsLearn2notpostlikeanasshole. You assume I am having trouble managing my inventory, which I am not. However, it is a fact many people find the current crafting system cumbersome, and unentertaining. Otherwise why would they place the questions in the player poll about it? My post is about working on one particular aspect of how the system is cumbersome, and I believe I even say that in the post. But your right, collecting plus one materials time-wise wouldn't change at all, as no one is complaining that it is difficult for someone to obtain them. The issue is that they are needlessly being used. One of the first things the new team did when they took over is begin trimming how many items are needlessly in the game and adding inventory space, so its not just me imagining that inventory management is a problem in this game for no reason. They are definitly going to continue working on this issue, and if your dumb enough to believe they aren't looking into ways to trim even more inventory fat, I want whatever your smoking on. They have even said they plan to cut back how much inventory space we have now on our person and on our retainers when they introduce player housing. Doing so would lead me to believe they plan to continue working on this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz
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03-22-2012, 09:38 AMdarkstarpoet1the majority of +1 materials in synths are crafted items. they are what crafters make. sure gathering hq ore helps make hq ingots, but it takes crafting by crafters to make those. that aspect should stay just the way it is now in my opinion. making crafted gear is not the job of the gatherers. gatherers gather the base materials, crafters make the advanced materials to combine into gear, and the battle class uses the finished gear to get more. that's the way the circle should exist and that is the way it is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggs
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03-23-2012, 04:09 AMBiggsI could easily see the purposed system keeping that aspect of it the same then. Even just getting rid of plus one raw materials and replacing them with bonus crystals would be way easier than and more streamlined than the system is now. WHen I look in my inventory I see way more plus 1 raw mats than I do plus 1 crafting materials.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
I am almost positive they are going to alter the current system in the future. I would rather brainstorm ideas now and try and come up with something acceptable rather then wait and see what SE will do in the future. I actually LIKE the base crafting system as it is now, since it is more than what most MMO's have which is just point and click crafting. But I definitly find aspects of it overly complicated for no reason. While I can appreciate the initial direction the first team was trying to take it, I think that the numbers have shown most people want this issue worked on (the crafting issue, not my crystal idea). Its going to happen whether we say anything or not in my opinion. There has to be a simpler way of boosting quality besides having a million copies of similar items junking up the market wards and player inventory. -
03-23-2012, 04:23 AMdarkstarpoet1oh i agree it could use more streamlining. i know it's difficult to manage inventory. i just don't think this would be a way to help resolve those inventory issues without sacrificing those that actually put in the time and effort to craft the high quality gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggs
i'm sure other suggestions such as material bags for crafters would go a long way towards the inventory stress we have now. let's say they have for each weapon/tool you carry with you out of the residence when they add that you have a bag that will be strictly for those skills that is outside of your main inventory. (with this example you could carry a max of 10 bags instead of 18 if you had all weapons/tools)
they could make each bag as low as 25 items. say you go out farming and get a stack of boar hides and you could just deposit that stack into your leatherworkers bag and it would remove it from your main inventory. during that farming session you would also be getting black truffles off the hogs and you could put those in your culinarian bags.
it seems this method would add extra flexibility to those that use multiple classes because there's a way to keep your extras on you and be able to continue farming items. think of the help farming if you went out on miner and could stick all of your stacks of iron and cobalt into your bag and not take up your main inventory. -
03-23-2012, 04:54 AMBiggsAwsome idea actually. It would certainly beat the system we have now that punishes those that choose not to focus on just one craft, but several. I have often wondered how they plan to tackle this issue in the future. It won't be an easy task, and I am sure that, whatever they do, they can't and won't please everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
I had also thought how cool it would be if you got a building or some place for your free company later on that would allow those in your company to share a storage space that everyone would have access too. Of course this would lead into all sorts of drama at some point within the Free Companies themselves as players help themselves to mats that may not be theres but, they have a ton of places they can go with this.