The people of Gridania have a deep fear and respect for the Elementals, to the point where they will engage in rather inhumane behaviors if the Elementals demand it of them. They have good reason to fear them, though, as they were responsible for the Sixth Calamity, when Oha-Sok drowned the entire continent in retribution for the excesses of the warring nations of Amdapor and Mhach.
Or do they have good reason to fear?
We now know that the act of Rejoining takes a disaster-in-progress and amps it up to preposterous levels. Presumably, at the time of Oha-Sok's rampage, the world was being inundated with water aether, as the water-flooded shard's aether poured into the Source.
What I'm getting at, is that what Oha-Sok did was technically WAY beyond Oha-Sok's capabilities. The Elemental had help, in a big way, from the the flooded Shard. It's possible - likely, even - that the Ascians provided explicit guidance to the Elementals, so they'd know exactly when to act.
In short, the Great Flood was a one-time thing, and not easily repeated. There's no doubt that Elementals can be troublesome when upset - but the level of terror the folks of Gridania have at upsetting them may be more than warranted. Would policies change if the Gridanians knew the Elementals couldn't simply summon up a Calamity-on-demand if sufficiently pissed off? Might they begin to pursue a relationship more along the lines of equals, rather than as barely-tolerated tenants?
Especially given how remarkably quiet the Elementals have been since the Seventh Calamity. I suspect it may have left them weakened, in some way...
I doubt that the game will ever explore this possibility. The Elementals will always be inscrutable boogiemen whose whims define Gridania's policies. Still, it's something I'd like to see addressed!
The Elementals - not as scary as people think?
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08-31-2019, 12:37 AMLineageRazorThe Elementals - not as scary as people think?
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08-31-2019, 04:30 AMEnkidoh
Having started FFXIV in Gridania in both 1.0 and ARR, and played through the 1.0 Gridanian storyline I can definetely attest to just how dangerous and powerful the elementals really can be if really provoked, it is not an exaggeration on Gridania's part.
Some aspects were kind of taken out of proportion by Gridanian citizens, but the fact remains they were powerful entities that could turn the whole forest against anyone or anything it viewed as a threat, with the idea of exactly what it was that they percieved as a 'threat' seeming to be somewhat unintelligible to normal mortals, even going so far as turning someone to stone (it happened to a boy named Khrimm in 1.0's Gridanian story after he set a Hedgetree on fire simply to 'prove' the elementals were fake, and that single elemental was so furious it scared the other elementals into authorizing the Wood Wailers and the God's Quiver to destroy it for the well-being of everyone, and Amberscale Rock has a story connected to it that it was actually a dragon that had been imobilized by the elementals). Emphasis on were.
ARR's storyline outright says that all the recent incursions and transgressions into the forest by people and entities that the elementals would not have even thought twice about punishing before the Calamity the elementals appear to now turn a blind eye to, and it was confusing and terrifying the Gridanians that they were doing so. The Calamity seems to have changed the aetheric makeup of Eorzea and resulted in a massive powering down of the elementals to the point that not only do they not even show themselves generally anymore (unlike pre-Calamity where they actively roamed around the forest - they were actual random enemies you could fight), they seem rather powerless to stop even Ixali incursions into the forest and outright poaching of trees, requiring them to appeal through intermideries like the moogles and the Seedseers for help to neutralize these threats. And then there is also the little problem of Ascian medling in the whole thing too.
So basically the elementals do exist and are as every bit powerful and terrifying as they're made out to be, but, due to the Calamity their power has waned considerably to the point they're no longer really capable of exerting much force of the forest or Eorzea in general (an overlooked fact that was more stated in 1.0 was that there are elementals in everything including rocks and the air, and that they're found all over Eorzea, but were always far more numerous and potent in the Black Shroud for some reason).
As for whether the elementals could ever repeat the Great Flood? Hard to say, especially with their aformentioned weakening. But you also have to remember that back at the end of the Fifth Astral Era the level of aetheric abuse through the magic unleashed during the War of the Magi was at such a level that the elementals thought that destroying everything with a flood was the only way to save things, not helped by one of the instigators being right on their doorstep (the Amdapor).
As the elementals couldn't even stop the Garleans from building a base in the middle of the forest after the Seventh Calamity, I don't think the elementals are now in a position to cause a repeat of the Sixth Calamity, even if they wanted to. -
08-31-2019, 05:05 AMRaldo
Post-ShB, I like to think of the Elementals like the Pixies of the first. By themselves, most of the elementals are probably just rather ineffective trolls. The Gridanians are probably only afraid of angering a large enough group of them to cause them to actually work together.
But more realistically, the Elementals are probably just old leftover 1.0 lore that you're probably not supposed to think too much about, since they rarely play a role in the playable story. -
08-31-2019, 11:22 AMYianKutkuIt did slightly amuse me that the Elementals first asked the Seedseers to ask us to help clear out the Lost City of Amdapor of voidsent, then after we did so, they had to run back to the Seedseers to ask them to please also clear out Amdapor's original security system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
Oha-Sok is a weird case, since it claimed to be responsible (or at least representative) for the Sixth Calamity of Water, but then the first lorebook said it was just water aspected aether going out of balance. So it could be a case of that "You made this? I made this" meme, or it could be some Obi-Wan-esque "certain points of view" where the Elementals believe themselves to be one and the same as aether in general, and so if aether is imbalanced enough to cause a catastrophe (exacerbated by a Rejoining), that might be the same as the Elementals being responsible for it, in their point of view.Quote:
As for whether the elementals could ever repeat the Great Flood? Hard to say, especially with their aformentioned weakening. But you also have to remember that back at the end of the Fifth Astral Era the level of aetheric abuse through the magic unleashed during the War of the Magi was at such a level that the elementals thought that destroying everything with a flood was the only way to save things, not helped by one of the instigators being right on their doorstep (the Amdapor).
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08-31-2019, 05:10 PMAnonymoose
No one's gonna post the video where it turned out to be cold, hard facts that the Elementals will indiscriminately Thanos you out of existence if the Twelveswood's aetherial balance and/or ecosystem are under threat? (Granted sometimes they put you back where they got you. Sometimes unable to move. Sometimes with your memories wiped. Sometimes bound to wander the Twelveswood forever because they're in your head.)
Food for thought, though, if the Elementals are just spiritual aether - that is aether experiencing itself subjectively - most of what Oha-Sok says make perfect sense. The aether was overdrawn for the War of the Magi, aether was thrown out of balance, aether was thrown into chaos by the Calamity. If the Elementals are plugged into the Lifestream itself, they may experience that as being "shackled", subject to forces beyond their control, irresistibly driven to behave in certain ways. Aether flows in concentrations, aether grows frenetic when contained it until it explodes to freedom, etc.
Put an Elemental in a jar and it's going to explode and attack people like a mini Dalamud event. -
09-01-2019, 10:07 PMSannaR
Aren't they the ones they make the Ala Mighans sick because they're seen as not wanted in the shroud? The only time I want to say we see any of the elementals in 2.0 is during the cnj story. They're part of the reason white mages have to calm down a tree if tainted aether is sensed and hasn't been delt with in a timely manner. We also learn that to them everything is just aether to their eyes as they don't make distinctions between aether that made up a nutkin in the life stream vs a person stuck in the lifestream because they used dangerous teleport magics.
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09-01-2019, 11:08 PMIscahThey didn't actually make him sick, just banned the Gridanians from assisting him.Quote:
Originally Posted by SannaR
http://garlandtools.org/db/#quest/66301
Quote:
ALBREDA
One of Meffrid's in bad shape, you say? I'm...I'm sorry, but there's naught I can do.
I want to help, truly I do─they're my countrymen, after all─but that'd mean going against the elementals' will.
I've been at Quarrymill long enough to know how right terrible the beings can be. I couldn't forgive myself if everyone gets banished because of me.
If there's anyone who can help you, it'd be Charline, the hamlet's resident Hearer. If you take the matter to her, might be as she'll listen...though I wouldn't get my hopes up.
CHARLINE
You wish to aid the Ala Mhigans? You are possessed of a kind heart, adventurer, but I'm afraid I have not the authority to grant you your wish.
This authority belongs only to the elementals, eternal guardians of the Twelveswood. All outsiders, be they babes at the breast or men grown, are judged of a night whether they may have a place beneath the boughs.
Alas, the Ala Mhigans' petition has been denied. Harsh though it may seem, they do not have leave to receive of the wood's bounty. Ever has it been since time immemorial, and ever shall it be.
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09-03-2019, 01:14 AMDahlia_FayeI stumbled upon this video just the other day and was quite shocked that the "greenwrath" will just erase your existence. I though you will get chased by some mobs at worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
But on another note, does anyone know why the elementals happen to look like a certain painting in Shadowbringers? -
09-03-2019, 06:17 AMAnonymooseI suspect the painting was deliberately modeled on the Elementals...but why? We haven't heard much of them since 1.0. Maybe their time has come, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlia_Faye
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09-03-2019, 06:59 AMShurrikhanI certainly hope so. I'd love to go back and explore some of the more wild, dark, or sublime elements of the original world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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09-04-2019, 01:34 AMSannaRYet the illness seems to target Ala Mhigans the most. I want to say it's partly why there aren't many that stay in the Shroud because they don't want to become ill and then get denied treatment just because the elementals said sorry you're not allowed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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09-04-2019, 07:35 AMEnkidohI can't remember if that particular quest ever explained what it was exactly Meffrid's friends were suffering from only that they were gravely ill (my assumption was it was partially exhaustion and malnutrition from their lives as refugees).Quote:
Originally Posted by SannaR
Having said that, in the game's lore there is a disease called simply 'the wasting sickness' that only affects hyur specifically and was once at epidemic levels in Gridania (an early quest in Hyrstmill referred to it). In the present day conjury spells were developed to treat or even cure the disease but for a long time herbal treatments were all that was available to treat the afflicted. So maybe the Ala Mhigan refugees (who are hyur also after all, highlander specifically, but still hyur) had caught this particular ailment, and thus because it required specific conjury spells to cure that only the Hearers of the CNJ's Guild would know, hence why the elementals had to be asked to use it and in turn denied it.
Unfortunately, the elementals are nature personified, and lets face it, nature is downright cruel at times, and that is pretty much the underlying theme in Gridania sadly. -
09-04-2019, 07:58 AMWyssahtynThe man was wounded, his wound festered, and he developed fever. That's it. Heck, if you'd bothered to follow the link in that quoted post, you'd have seen that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SannaR
"(-Resistance Soldier-)C-Captain! It's...it's Gallien, sir! His wound's gone an' festered, an' he's burnin' up! I don't think he's got much time! "