Yet another AST rant (but a quick one)

Not going to elaborate much because everything has pretty much been said multiple times by a LOT of people by now.
What's nice is that our localization team HAS some feedback power unlike most other companies.

“We are truly sorry about the initial issues with the feel of the job. That said, card effects were changed to their current iteration because we received feedback from all regions that players did not want "useless cards." It does indeed lower the feeling of "drawing a good card," but if we make certain cards significantly more powerful than others, then we'll just return to fishing for the good ones, so we decided to simplify it. We plan on continuing with this style for now.” -YoshidaP

Yoshi has been amazing for all this time but no one is perfect.

"better" cards lead to an imbalance yes, but what we call a perfect imbalance.

By creating a scenario more powerful than any other (AoE balance) you effectively break the cards balance (god the puns, why). But that is, surprisingly, a GOOD thing.

What in the name of Godbert? How is this a good thing?

You see by being aware of a First Order Optimal Strategy (FOOS, aka AoE balance in this case) players are ALWAYS going to be fishing for it. But, they will not get it all the time. And that my friends, is EXACTLY where master astros will shine compared to good astros.

Some people feel it frustrating and sadly it was their inexperienced voices that were heard. Because when you really think and math it out, giving a +4.3% DPs increase for 30 secs instead of +5% isn't THAT big of an issue.

But people were told that AoE balance was THE best, THE only thing you wanted. While it wasn't wrong, they probably never knew how little of a difference getting an AoE spear made rather than an AoE balance on the overall 10 mins DPs race.

This perfectly imbalanced scenario created this wonderful thing where people who were good as their astro could really be put apart from those who MASTERED their astro. Static mates legitimately asked me if I was hacking because of the ridiculous amounts of AoE balances I was throwing out and they'd NEVER seen that in their lives.

The answer was really easy, I'm an analytic person. A quick one at that. I would draw a card and instinctively pick out the best choice based on hundreds (ok maybe dozens) of possible present and future scenarios within 0.68 seconds and not miss a GCD while putting the card in its right place and immediately reset the draw CD.

Same could be said of sleeve draw where I'd instantly analyze those 3 or 4 empty slots now full with a random card and sort them out to get that sweet sweet AoE balance, all the time.

That came with a year of practice and countless experimentations and forum researches and so on. I had MASTERED the class and people FELT it.

As it has been said by others, there was, ironically, no useless cards with the introduction of the crowns. Because even that 30s CD rampart- I mean, bole, could be used for a free OGCD heal or DPs boost if you TRULY felt like 10% damage reduction was useless because it would make you cast less heals and leave room for more DPs GCDs... I mean, what?

But then again, for most people, the ancient system was deep, too deep. Not necessarily complex, but deep and there's a difference here.
A complex system requires a lot of time to analyze, memorize, understand and pick a decision.
A deep system means every decision has to be carefully thought trough and can have a deep impact.

You had 6 cards.

Players remember the effects of 20-40 skills, spells and abilities on sometimes only one job. 6 cards wasn't too much.

you had 3 royal roads.

It really only boiled down to how much you knew the card system and how good you were at getting the most out of what you drew. Not complex and deep, the exact thing you aim to achieve with video game systems. Just like chess. 6 pieces. 1 way to move for each. An extremely deep game, yet, not really complex.

And this has all been thrown to garbage for an over-simplified system that has the bad habit of being complex, and for the wrong reasons too.

- Targeting many different people to buff them because all cards are single targets. You were only going for AoEs with the ancient system you never had to worry about targeting which made using it quick and efficient.

- Having 6 "different" cards that are all the same thing in the end when you think about it.

- Still has the RNG frustration even with a simplified system. Yes I'm looking at you "drawing 7 times in a row the same already acquired seal".

- Bad astros will STILL not use cards because they're bad. Maybe they're new, maybe they're stoned, maybe they're not good, maybe they just want to heal. In all cases, simplifying and mainstreaming the system still didn't get them to use the cards so at that point why care?

- Good astros are now the same as master astros. Because of this 120s CD on Divination, anyone above average will ALWAYS have those 3 seals ready by then (thank god its down from 180s). And when you think about it, it's really hard to fuck it up given the amount of draws, sleeve draws and redraws in 120s you basically have 3 or 4 accumulated chances out of 1 to get 3 different seals.

So why play astro anymore? Parties only need 2 healers. I'll just go feel that I master my class playing WHM or SCH (sorry for the performance nerf buddies). Because I'll just be stuck doing what a pre-made script could if I keep playing AST, and that's far from fun.

Again I love you Yoshi you've brought this game back from it's grave with all these nice decisions but mostly, by listening to your playerbase. If the game's success hasn't gotten to your head and ego then I hope you can still come back from "continuing with this style for now.” This simplified system isn't gonna get you more subs and if anything, only maybe make some players leave.

Wow this has turned out to be long again I apologize for lying!

Cannot upvote enough.

6 cards with different and obvious effects.
2 things to do with wanted cards (Play or Spread).
2 things to do with unwanted cards (Minor Arcana or Royal Road).
And a flash refill.


It was a minigame to stay shallow or go deep in, ruined because players don't understand the difference between absolute and relative optimal play. PSA: Absolute optimal is the best of all possible options. Relative optimal is the best of the options you HAVE.

They should have just nerfed Balance into the ground and moved on.

And that was just the cards, don't forget the layer of strategy that added Celestial Opposition and Time Dilatation.

A card for every need.

And this Job Gauge:
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/ffxiv...cana_Gauge.png
*Chef Kiss*

Balance should have turned into Direct Hit or anything else, Spire is the trouble child tho.

We were the OG one AoE - one DoT - one Single yet it never felt like we needed anything else after Minor Arcana.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KanameYuuki

And that was just the cards, don't forget the layer of strategy that added Celestial Opposition and Time Dilatation.

A card for every need.

And this Job Gauge:
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/ffxiv...cana_Gauge.png
*Chef Kiss*

Balance should have turned into Direct Hit or anything else, Spire is the trouble child tho.

We were the OG one AoE - one DoT - one Single yet it never felt like we needed anything else after Minor Arcana.

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Spire could have been turned into a Convalescence, so we'd have 3 damage, 2 tanking, and 1 utility cards.

And I agree, this job bar was amazing and showed the complexity of the class. More complex than the slot machine we have now... :(

I m in the same identical situation, I was called “the balance guy” by my teammates cause I learned how to optimise every single aoe card spread and maybe it would sound ridiculous but I felt unique cause that was my play style, those were my efforts in learning how the job worked.
I won’t complain enough about new card system, right now everyone are good Ast and the difference between good and master Asts are in malefic+cards rotation, but it’s not a talent, it’s only a useless fatigue when u manage to get every single malefic and card without loosing uptime and even a novice whm outclass your efforts with his overpowered dps

Not gonna lie, I cried while reading your post. I just miss the decision-making of the old system SO MUCH...when you had that beautiful alignment of the stars, and achieved that Expanded Balance, it just felt so rewarding because it was NOT guaranteed, but not getting it was still ok. While I absolutely love the shiny new effects and aesthetic of modern AST, it feels like a shell of what it was...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valmaxian

Not gonna lie, I cried while reading your post. I just miss the decision-making of the old system SO MUCH...when you had that beautiful alignment of the stars, and achieved that Expanded Balance, it just felt so rewarding because it was NOT guaranteed, but not getting it was still ok. While I absolutely love the shiny new effects and aesthetic of modern AST, it feels like a shell of what it was...

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It wasn't just AoE Balance though... A Bole on the tank during a large dungeon pull; A Spire on that just raised physical DPS, or during AoE (back when TP mattered); A Ewer when you or your co-healer were low on MP; An Arrow as a BLM; A Spear as a BRD; A Balance on the DPS in 4 player content... all of those (and more) were noticeable, and they all felt good.

Now even Divination just feels like an overly convoluted cooldown with barely any noticeable impact... and the individual cards; I hope that DPS knows what they are doing because I would need a parser to tell the difference (and even then).

This was very well put by the op. I feel like as someone who doesn’t play astro and who didn’t understand what astros were complaining about, i finally understand and agree with you.

Well done.

I'm not particularly happy about the "Seal fishing" I'm having to do. And for what? a 2% increase from bottom to top? And then there's seals not applying because apparently I'm not in combat or combust didn't tick soon enough due to no initial damage. The constant retargeting of party members, tanks, and the enemy, etc. I'm not even going to get into sleeve draw ~_~

Why did they build this annoying system all around a paltry 2% damage increase?

This thread is just gold.
I feel the exact same way about how AST was played before.
We needed several hundred of hours of gameplay to learn and master the cards system (and further) through difficult contents.
AST gameplay was rich, emergent and very challenging, in one word : brillant. But I 'am not even sure SE was aware of this as the players with a few experience or they wouldn't have changed it.