Garlean Physiology

Are Garleans just plain stronger than the playable races? Even without their armor we see them doing a bunch of stuff that you wouldn't think possible without using aether. Then you've got Zenos, who was apparently considered the deadliest man in the Empire even before becoming a Resonant. Is there a reason for this, or does Zenos just have an amazing amount of plot armor?

Zenos seems to be a special case even among garleans, but yes, Garleans seem to be physically superior with the weakness of not being able to use aether.

The garlean scientist guy in SB alludes to this. At the time I thought it may have just been propaganda, but then Hien also makes a comment about it not being fair that 'Zenos' i 4.5 has both a garlean body and magic.

Zenos has an artificial echo that lets him use magic, though I think he was also just a super prodigy even before then.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Zenos seems to be a special case even among garleans, but yes, Garleans seem to be physically superior with the weakness of not being able to use aether.

The garlean scientist guy in SB alludes to this. At the time I thought it may have just been propaganda, but then Hien also makes a comment about it not being fair that 'Zenos' i 4.5 has both a garlean body and magic.

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I had noticed that line from Hien as well. There is a lot of debate about it now. The general consensus, at least on Balmung, seems to be that it isn't canon until something comes out that confirms it. But uh... When you've got both a renowned scientist and a well respected king - a warrior-king, no less - commenting on the power of Garlean bodies, it makes you think.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I had noticed that line from Hien as well. There is a lot of debate about it now. The general consensus, at least on Balmung, seems to be that it isn't canon until something comes out that confirms it. But uh... When you've got both a renowned scientist and a well respected king - a warrior-king, no less - commenting on the power of Garlean bodies, it makes you think.

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Hien's comment is what solidifies it for me. The scientist guy you could argue as being biased, but Hien? I don't think he would buy into garlean propaganda like that. Plus, greater strength would help to offset them not being able to use aether to some degree.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Hien's comment is what solidifies it for me. The scientist guy you could argue as being biased, but Hien? I don't think he would buy into garlean propaganda like that. Plus, greater strength would help to offset them not being able to use aether to some degree.

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It makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Even if they didn't already have their increased physical abilities from the start, I'd wager being driven out into such harsh lands by the other aether-enabled races would've lead to them becoming quite a bit hardier over generations.

It kinda makes sense that the with the lack of aether manipulation in almost all Garlean pureblood they adapted by being physically strong.

Not only that, but the environment they live in is also very harsh, thus also making them physically strong much like how Highlanders and Roegadyns had to adapt to theirs.

On a side note, since Garleans are their own, could that mean they might have different clans? So far we see the Elezen-looking ones like Maxima, Eula and Lucia; while there's midlander-looking ones like Jenomis and Aulus.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Hien's comment is what solidifies it for me. The scientist guy you could argue as being biased, but Hien? I don't think he would buy into garlean propaganda like that. Plus, greater strength would help to offset them not being able to use aether to some degree.

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Remember though that scene was not actually even the real Zenos but Elidibus in Zenos's body, so the 'magic' he used was Elidibus drawing on his own Ascian powers rather than relying on his Garlean host (in much the same way when Lahabrea possessed Thancred back in ARR he used Ascian powers rather than Thancred's). So Hien's "no fair" comment is still right as 'Zelidibus' was basically superpowering himself in having the best of both worlds - a Garlean's superior physical strength and stamina (from Zenos's body), and Ascian magic (from Elidibus), and Hien had already eluded to earlier about "an Ascian wearing Zenos's face" so he outright knew the person he was facing was not actually Zenos at all but an Ascian in a Zenos-meatsuit.

Rule of thumb with the Ascians seems to be that even though they need a physical host to inact force on the corporeal realm, once they have a host though that Ascian is free to draw on their considerable magic power regardless of the native power of the host body they happen to be inhabiting.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Remember though that scene was not actually even the real Zenos but Elidibus in Zenos's body, so the 'magic' he used was Elidibus drawing on his own Ascian powers rather than relying on his Garlean host (in much the same way when Lahabrea possessed Thancred back in ARR he used Ascian powers rather than Thancred's).

Rule of thumb with the Ascians seems to be that even though they need a physical host to inact force on the corporeal realm, once they have a host though that Ascian is free to draw on their considerable magic power regardless of the power of the host they happen to be inhabiting.

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Yeah I know it was Elidibus using his ascian magic, but it was still a garlean body using ascian magic, Hien's comment makes no sense if pureblood garleans don't have high physical strength.

It is worth noting that there is a small percentage of the Garlean population that is capable of manipulating aether. We know nothing of them, however - their capabilities and total number elude us.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

It is worth noting that there is a small percentage of the Garlean population that is capable of manipulating aether. We know nothing of them, however - their capabilities and total number elude us.

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Where are they mentioned? First I've heard of them.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Where are they mentioned? First I've heard of them.

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Encyclopedia Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Where are they mentioned? First I've heard of them.

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I think it's in the first lore book, in the Garlean Empire section.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Where are they mentioned? First I've heard of them.

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Lorebook says this: Garleans have little inborn ability to manipulate their body's aether, however, and thus the arcane arts have ever eluded all but a few. Thus, they have long been at a disadvantage against other peoples with a command of magic.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

It is worth noting that there is a small percentage of the Garlean population that is capable of manipulating aether. We know nothing of them, however - their capabilities and total number elude us.

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There is a theory that Lucia might be a Garlean that can manipulate aether. In one quest she casts cure on the player, compare that to Cid using Aqua Vitae item. People thought it was weird when she did it, especially since they could have made her use items or whatever, but she was casting cure. Then we later found out a very small portion of Garleans can manipulate aether.

It also appears Resonance gives them the ability to use aether. That isn't just magitek Zenos is using when you fight him in Ala Mhigo.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

It also appears Resonance gives them the ability to use aether. That isn't just magitek Zenos is using when you fight him in Ala Mhigo.

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Now here's the kicker, we don't actually know when Zenos went under the Resonance procedure. From what we understand it requires an Echo user archtype (like Krile) to work. This leaves us in a bit of a dilemma. If Zenos had the Resonant before capturing Krile, who on earth was the echo user he used as the archtype. If it was after, how the heck was he using aetherical abilities when we know for a fact that he couldn't use aether as an unaltered pureblood (thanks to his short story in the chronicles book).
Mayhap the knowledge of who was used as the archtype for his Resonant is not as important as simply knowing that he had it but the devs haven't graced us with an answer to even that. Not allowed to, last time someone asked directly (Anonymoose).

Does anyone know if the second lore book gives us additional information on Zenos or Garleans in general? Don't have that one.

One thing I'm curious to know is whether or not Pureblood Garleans are capable of using an aetheryte with assistance.

That aside, Pureblood Garleans are physically imposing and boast a very wide range of potential physiques. Cid is roughly the same height as a Midlander though with the same amount of muscle as a Highlander. Gaius and Nero are quite tall and well-built and strong enough to wield thick armour and heavy weapons. Zenos is even taller than either of them and Varis...even more so.

It's a consequence of being forced to survive in a harsh environment. Garlemald itself is very cold and harsh - perhaps even more so than Coerthas. Their society also values strength as a necessity for survival due to a history of persecution.

Another interesting element to their form is the third eye which enhances their spatial awareness significantly, which is why they're so good at working with magitek and firearms. It'd be wonderful to see that played up more in the future.

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Originally Posted by myahele

There is a theory that Lucia might be a Garlean that can manipulate aether. In one quest she casts cure on the player, compare that to Cid using Aqua Vitae item. People thought it was weird when she did it, especially since they could have made her use items or whatever, but she was casting cure. Then we later found out a very small portion of Garleans can manipulate aether.

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Either that, or the line in the lorebook is specifically to handwave the fact that they forgot and gave her Cure spells when she shouldn't have them...

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

If it was after, how the heck was he using aetherical abilities when we know for a fact that he couldn't use aether as an unaltered pureblood (thanks to his short story in the chronicles book).

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I think his short story in the Chronicles book sheds light on how he managed it - in his youth, he managed to do so by embedding a crystal into his flesh (specifically his palm), and doing so let him channel the necessary aether to produce a technique he should not have been able to do. I wouldn't not put it past him to continue this trend as needed into adulthood.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

I think his short story in the Chronicles book sheds light on how he managed it - in his youth, he managed to do so by embedding a crystal into his flesh (specifically his palm), and doing so let him channel the necessary aether to produce a technique he should not have been able to do. I wouldn't not put it past him to continue this trend as needed into adulthood.

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I was under the impression that he gave up that 'method' and began pursuing other forms of enhancement specifically because the method was unwieldy and not to his tastes... but I realise the only part that was actually stated was 'persuing other forms of enhancement' and it doesn't specifically say he gave up the crystal embedding.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Now here's the kicker, we don't actually know when Zenos went under the Resonance procedure. From what we understand it requires an Echo user archtype (like Krile) to work. This leaves us in a bit of a dilemma. If Zenos had the Resonant before capturing Krile, who on earth was the echo user he used as the archtype. If it was after, how the heck was he using aetherical abilities when we know for a fact that he couldn't use aether as an unaltered pureblood (thanks to his short story in the chronicles book).
Mayhap the knowledge of who was used as the archtype for his Resonant is not as important as simply knowing that he had it but the devs haven't graced us with an answer to even that. Not allowed to, last time someone asked directly (Anonymoose).

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If I remember correctly there actually was a book someone mentioned where they went into Zeno's past. Where he was given an instructor for teaching him to fight, but that instructor was secretly trying to assassinate Zenos. He used a martial arts style that relied heavily on Aether so that Zenos could not learn it. However Zenos spent all his time trying to figure out how it worked, and even came up with a jurry rigged aetherochemical system to give himself something similar, allowing him to learn how to use the martial arts style. This lead to the instructor's surprise in a later lesson and then trying to kill Zenos. Zenos ultimately won but that made all the enjoyment he had with that instructor come to an end. It was the point where Zenos realized that his only enjoyment came from being challenged by something he cannot just easily do.

So most Aetherical abilities Zenos has comes from him figuring out alternative ways to produce the same effects. Which is why he supported the Resonance project. He likely went under the procedure shortly after they proved that it worked with Fordola.

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Originally Posted by myahele

On a side note, since Garleans are their own, could that mean they might have different clans? So far we see the Elezen-looking ones like Maxima, Eula and Lucia; while there's midlander-looking ones like Jenomis and Aulus.

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Garleans do have different "clans", or at least communities prior to banding together, at least. The Republic of Garlemald (precursor to Solus's Empire) was created by joining lots of different communities together, with the wording implying that not all of these assimilations were entirely voluntary.

I'm not sure if that can explain the variety of Garlean body-shapes, though. I was thinking maybe it was a result of interbreeding with other races, before the racial superiority creed espoused by Solus.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

I'm not sure if that can explain the variety of Garlean body-shapes, though. I was thinking maybe it was a result of interbreeding with other races, before the racial superiority creed espoused by Solus.

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I’m not sure if that’s entirely correct as I was under the impression that only pure-bloods can have a third eye. I thought the reason we have different looking Garleans is because there is no standard body for everyone and the devs had no time or resources to create a whole custom body for background Garleans. Just take an elezen, change to hyur ears and slap a third eye on them.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I’m not sure if that’s entirely correct as I was under the impression that only pure-bloods can have a third eye. I thought the reason we have different looking Garleans is because there is no standard body for everyone and the devs had no time or resources to create a whole custom body for background Garleans. Just take an elezen, change to hyur ears and slap a third eye on them.

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That is the reason the devs gave us, yes. They simply didn't have the time or resources to invest in giving Garleans their own custom bodies. They instead combined assets from existing races to produce something semi-unique.

I'm inclined to believe that Garlean physiques just vary by quite a bit by design. The only reason the playable races do not follow a similar pattern is due to limitations of the character customisation system.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm inclined to believe that Garlean physiques just vary by quite a bit by design. The only reason the playable races do not follow a similar pattern is due to limitations of the character customisation system.

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While I do agree with you, I am forced to wonder just how far that goes. Some of the variances we've seen are most definitely the result of SE just not investing the time and effort. Others, such as Zenos and his father's models, are not subject to that claim due to the time having been taken to to give them their unique builds. Both are quite tall even compared to the larger playable races. We never saw Varis without his armor, but Zenos in his robes appears to have a physique not unlike an Au Ra, albeit with more human proportions. He's slim but not so much so as to appear scrawny the way Elezen do, and the broad shoulders lead you to believe he's probably very strong despite being a bit on the thin side.