Savage Loot in Statics

While I like the new loot system more for pug groups, it seems to have had a perverse effect in statics. It's great for static players to be able to get guaranteed loot,but healers have effectively been relayed to the backseat.

Statics as I've seen seem to decide to give DPS players loot first. This seems like the logical option as gear on DPS will yield more DPS than gear on healers (or tanks). Problem is, this effectively makes healers run for pages for weeks before even touching a single piece of savage gear outside of pages. Let's also not forget that belts now cost 6 pages from the first floor.

There's also the problem of best in slot gear for some jobs. Due to healers typically being dead last for gear, you're stuck in a situation where you might have to purchase non best in slot gear to increase your vitality, since you'll also be dead last in terms of vitality. It makes it even slower for you to upgrade alt jobs as you cannot invest your weekly locked tomes into their gear.

I think part of the fun of running savage content is getting new gear and improving your character. While it was possible to get useless gear before, if healer gear dropped, you were able to get it instead of having to settle on a page consolation price. That's not to mention if any issues happen with your static, you are far more at risk being stuck finding another group with no gear outside of tome gear in tow.

Seems like a fair trade, if DPS get more gear, the fight dies faster and you heal less. so while you wait longer, you're rewarded with a smoother healing experience and, you should be good by 8-9 weeks anyway when rdps for speeds really takes off

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

Seems like a fair trade, if DPS get more gear, the fight dies faster and you heal less. so while you wait longer, you're rewarded with a smoother healing experience and, you should be good by 8-9 weeks anyway when rdps for speeds really takes off

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While I agree that the fights will die faster, you won't have to heal less. Healer HP will end up being the lowest in the group and you don't fill up the DPS' health faster. You also don't have the option to meld vitality anymore. You won't be able to keep up with the DPS' HP gain.

There's also the point that it feels bad playing the support job and getting the short end of the stick.

Our group decided we will split the loot evenly, since we're doing casual blind progression on the floors and aren't in a hurry to clear the whole tier. Every group should decide what's the best solution for them based on their goals.

It depends on the static, usually we are all buddies here and can talk, also not every class needs savage gear for BiS.

In the end you are a team, you work as a team and you should do what's best for the team. If you want to make progress fast and if you progress faster by gearing up the DPS first, then that's probably the right way to do so for you - even if that means that as a healer you may get the short end of the stick.

It depends on the static and how quickly you progress. Think: what is best for the group right now?

Sometimes the DPS check is the blocker, usually for the groups clearing in the first few weeks.
Often times, mechanical consistency is the problem, especially if the amount of time you dedicate is low (e.g. 2 days a week).

Gear on DPS is most important earlier in the tier. If you want to clear in the first few weeks, then it's best to give the gear to DPS.

If you expect it to take a month or more, then it won't make much of a difference because by the time you get to fight the enrage, most of the group has gear. It's probably better to distribute gear equally in more casual groups for the vitality safety net (e.g. a missed mitigation will not kill someone).

It boils down to how well you know your static.
Obviously, the expectation in both cases is that you will raid until everyone is best in slot, so you will get yours eventually. If the DPS want to stop raiding once they get their best in slot, it's a problem with the static.

My static is running the rules of "everyone rolls need, but if you win the coffer, you cant roll on it again next week"

It really depends on a static by static basis, my static is going by the rules everybody gets 1 if its BiS and cannot roll on anything else until everyone gets something(be it gear or upgrade item). We had to pug a healer for E2S last night, we killed and since the second item was not BiS for any group member who has not gotten a piece, we gave it to the pug and i think we made their day both for kill and getting loot :D

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Originally Posted by Fiorinol

While I like the new loot system more for pug groups, it seems to have had a perverse effect in statics. It's great for static players to be able to get guaranteed loot,but healers have effectively been relayed to the backseat.

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Yeah... my static is very progression minded so I'm feeling the sting on this one. It's always been "upgrades go to DPS first", but at least you might get lucky and have a tank/healer chest or leg piece drop, for example. Now it's... literally every piece of gear can be routed to DPS first. And if your static wants to clear the tier fast, it probably is.

I'm not a fan of the new system, needless to say. Really makes me feel like a pauper raider.

Our group just records who all gets what drop and Prioritizes Coffers to DPS and Twine/Coat to Healers/Tanks for the first round.

A coffer Drops. See who has the least amount of drops among the DPS. DPS with the least drops roll for it. If no DPS need it for their BIS, repeat for healers/tanks. Pretty much everyone in the group has 1 or 2 items even while losing some to pugs.

DPS get geared first, Healers/tanks get their upgrade items first. Everyone only takes their BIS pieces, essentially. DPS get the weapon tomestone and upgrade, until E4s clear.

It's about making your team better, not about making yourself better.

I think it depends on the static.

I know this week, we actually gave some coffers to the healers because they didn't provide the DPS with a BiS upgrade. The pants coffer went to one, because the DPS have tome pants at this point (I know I bought the pants, at least), and then we rolled for the Twine to upgrade them. None of our DPS BiS used the Savage ones (according to the other DPS - I know DNC is tome pants), and while I agreed with our tank that an upgrade is an upgrade, I said I'd rather Savage pants go to someone who actually needed them and would use them as opposed to someone who would be replacing them fairly quickly. Same with the belt coffers that dropped. It just felt wasteful for me to take one and then immediate replace it within a week or two.

The weapon coffers are the only things prioritized for DPS right now. Well, and the body piece, because apparently we all need the Savage body for our BiS lol. DPS have gotten the most drops so far, but we also try to split it evenly, with them only getting one thing from the floors (e.g., if one gets the accessory upgrade, they can't loot for the gloves coffer). The only exception was both weapon and body coffer went to our BLM this week.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

It's about making your team better, not about making yourself better.

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I mean, sure. Which is why we let our statics do it.

Still a crappy system, tho.

It's been DPS get priority on drops since BCOB in my eyes. Infact I raided with a similar system going as far back as Everquest. I used to start PoG raids literally solo to earn my Tunare Earring!

I'm actually surprised that some people here don't see the benefits of doing so tbh. Skipping triples on E2S is a great example of saving faff caused by spikes right at the end of an encounter. I don't doubt that my own view is somewhat coloured by my static being mostly unchanged going back as far as Midas. I honestly don't care if I have to wait a few weeks for my loot. I know I'll get it and I'll have fun doing so in the process.

Ironically, I've been of the opinion that it's worse for pugs. My rolls are notoriously bad to the point where I'd be assuming I'd be buying everything with books a month down the line. Having people being able to clean sweep everything, even coffers they don't need is highly off-putting for me. More so than the aggravation of getting a bunch of drops no one wanted.

Yeah, I've been really dreading this new system. It kinda sucks going into these fights feeling like you have no chance of getting anything because dps priority. Either that or it feels like you'd be making things more difficult for the group as a whole given how tight the dps checks are being right now.

And I can't really agree with the higher dps making anything notably easier to heal, especially not at the moment. My group has gotten past e1-e3 in the first week, and this second week the only big difference has been how much time we have before the enrage. Went through all the same mechanics, healed all the same stuff.

The way my group does it is that you can roll as you wish on every drop until you get it. For E2S the non-dps voluntarily abstained to ease the DPS check the coming week, but making it obligatory would be deleterious to morale.

I'm with Sebazy on this one. I feel this change was horrible for pugs as you now need to contend with all 8 other players. For statics is does push healers back but overall it's more likely to get everyone geared faster. Also even if your static Priority is DPS > Tanks > Healers, that priority should be for BiS first. Meaning that if it isn't BiS for dps or tanks (even if it's an upgrade for them) healers get to roll. You might switch that up if DPS checks are a real problem for you but otherwise it's a good way to get everyone up asap.

If you're able to consistently clear, then loot should be distributed evenly.

If you're barely missing DPS checks then clearly DPS get priority.

With healer shortages the way they are, they need that little bit of extra incentive to join your statics.

My static didn't manage to clear e3s this week, so I went into a pug and somehow cleared. I got the pants.

https://i.imgur.com/V5rCaDM.png

I love this loot system now :')

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Originally Posted by Fiorinol

My static didn't manage to clear e3s this week, so I went into a pug and somehow cleared. I got the pants.

https://i.imgur.com/V5rCaDM.png

I love this loot system now :')

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My only gripe is that one person can win every drop. Went in as a 7/8 static and that's exactly what happened in e3s.

The only alternative now is lootmaster to greed one item off at a time then have them leave or /random.

Pros: Good for feeding your top DPS player for early clears
Cons: Multiloot drops to one person with a weekly lockout don't feel great

My static is pretty casual but essentially have come to the agreement that if you got a piece of loot already, you pass until everyone has at least 1 item, granted 1st week ended in our RDM getting 2 drops as we established the rule after that incident but still.

We don't give a flip on who gets the gear, as it all ultimately helps out the group at the end of the day.