Please continue bringing up AST and SCH issues.

It's very clear that many of us are unhappy with AST and SCH's changes. We were brushed off in the live letter, so I believe it is pertinent that we continue pressing the issue. I sincerely hope the answer we received will not stymie the discussion.

And WHM. They only in a "good" place because AST and SCH were brought down, but they still have issues that need addressing like the rest of us. We all in it together.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

And WHM. They only in a "good" place because AST and SCH were brought down, but they still have issues that need addressing like the rest of us. We all in it together.

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True! I apologize for not including WHM. D: I had taken it for granted for a moment there.

When I take a step out of here, and have a look at tank/dps roles, I realize our voice is one of many many voices full of this forum every single day, let alone many threads are just fighting within the healer community.

And given to the player base, the dev probably wouldn't find any pressing need to prioritize healer issues first.

There’s another place to post questions: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...escom-2019-Q-A

I’m not sure based on the description and the panel whether they just want narrative and world related questions, and it would therefore be rude to flood them with healer questions, but even if it is it’d be good to upvote the healer questions that are already there as much as possible.

Plus there’s a vindictive/cynical part of me that says we asked questions at the appropriate time and were ignored, and if we wait for the appropriate time to roll back around there’s no guarantee we won’t be ignored again, so why should we care whether it’s the appropriate time?

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Originally Posted by IanFrench

When I take a step out of here, and have a look at tank/dps roles, I realize our voice is one of many many voices full of this forum every single day, let alone many threads are just fighting within the healer community.

And given to the player base, the dev probably wouldn't find any pressing need to prioritize healer issues first.

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a) When I step out of this forum, I find people complaining about sound effects and hairstyles more than about the basic play style of their class. The healer forums is by far the most awash with complaints about basic gameplay. There are some exceptions, with SMN threads being quite common and gameplay focused, and I’ve seen a few NIN threads complaining about potency, but:

b) There’s a difference between saying we’re not the priority and saying we’re not on the agenda. The live letter talked about 6 jobs and the only healer job was also the only job where they didn’t say that they’d be continuing to listen to player feedback and tune things going ahead. I’d be okay with them saying they’d get to us after they fixed x classes. I’m not okay with them not giving any indication that they’re going to get to our concerns at all.

I like the new astro cards.
Yeah it lost different effects but no matter how you cut it.
Cards not balance were useless or situational.
Ewer and bole were situational.
Spire was useless.
Arrow nobody likes but blm and samurai.
Spear was whatever, guess bards like it a lot and mnks.
Balance everyone loves and pretty much the only card everybody really cares about and most useful.

i personally dont think there is anything wrong with SCH now that energy drain is back
sure quicken aetherflow would be nice
and i know people want aetherflow to not be combat only but it was pretty annoying waiting 2 minutes for SCH openers if they didnt get it ready
id settle for charged aetherflow but that would probably be more a new expansion thing than somthing they add mid expansion.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

i personally dont think there is anything wrong with SCH now that energy drain is back
sure quicken aetherflow would be nice
and i know people want aetherflow to not be combat only but it was pretty annoying waiting 2 minutes for SCH openers if they didnt get it ready
id settle for charged aetherflow but that would probably be more a new expansion thing than somthing they add mid expansion.

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Recently they made it so if you use meditation out of combat on monk, you gain all 5 stacks with 1 button press. There is no reason something similar can't be done with aetherflow. They could make it so that if you use aetherflow out of combat the recast is significantly lowered. Or they could just make you spawn in with 3 stacks on aetherflow. They're just choosing not to fix it whether it be because they don't care or they're just lazy.

I think they just don't like the idea overall that there was waiting before starting an encounter not because not everybody was ready but because people were waiting on Cooldowns. Yoshi specifically probably disliked overall that the players were "Cheating" the encounter. So they were consistent and removed essentially all benefits for waiting for CD's while allowing AST to still draw cards.

So the solution to that could be that 30 seconds after anyone uses an ability, if the party is not in combat, the nearest enemy aggros on them. Now people have at most 30 seconds to pre-buff, but can still sit around and talk if they need to before anyone starts using abilities. Problem solved.

I wonder if they could at least make it so you could cast aetherflow if any member of your party is in combat.

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

There’s another place to post questions: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...escom-2019-Q-A

I’m not sure based on the description and the panel whether they just want narrative and world related questions, and it would therefore be rude to flood them with healer questions, but even if it is it’d be good to upvote the healer questions that are already there as much as possible.

Plus there’s a vindictive/cynical part of me that says we asked questions at the appropriate time and were ignored, and if we wait for the appropriate time to roll back around there’s no guarantee we won’t be ignored again, so why should we care whether it’s the appropriate time?

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Going who insistent some where that we'd wait and see after the Media tour skills were release I think there is no time like the present. This is further exasperated by that people playing White mages have been asking for just more things to keep them busy since the early days.

Despite never seen them post in a discussion, I have told the Community Managers read everything. So will continue to post hoping someday they read this and something good happens.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

I like the new astro cards.
Yeah it lost different effects but no matter how you cut it.
Cards not balance were useless or situational.
Ewer and bole were situational.
Spire was useless.
Arrow nobody likes but blm and samurai.
Spear was whatever, guess bards like it a lot and mnks.
Balance everyone loves and pretty much the only card everybody really cares about and most useful.

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Like someone else posted here, Balance was the one everyone wanted so I think the best course of action would've been to remove the +damage altogheter. I'm not familiar with the lore of the card, but it could anything else. Like a convalescenec effect on the target.

I am honestly done writing anymore stuff regarding healer role anymore. If the devs aren't gonna read through all of posts players took time to write almost everyday between now and then to all the way until 5.1, why should I bother? I cannot help but feel they are more than likely to take their sweet time to make excuses in the future live letters. Devs will have to dig through our posts if they really care.

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Originally Posted by Wawachume

I wonder if they could at least make it so you could cast aetherflow if any member of your party is in combat.

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Same for building seals on AST. I found a couple of times yesterday for example where a card was wasted because we were in combat, but I technically wasn't because I hadn't hit anything or needed to cure yet. It's just a pain, because I might have put a shield on all my party members as it seems sensible to put a prepared buff out at the start of a fight I'd not instictively DPS. It just feels clunky to have to through a DPS move or heal down first.

My SCH is fine thanks, very happy with it. My only real complaint was losing Energy Drain and that's back now. Please don't change anything SE. WHM is an absolute blast of fun to play though I'm not up to 80 yet. Can't comment on AST but my friends who have levelled it are happy with the changes that just happened and aren't looking for more. Overall, SE, judging by the comments of folks in my FC and crossworld linkshells, most players are fine with the healers as they are. It's just habitual forum users who are unhappy

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Originally Posted by Elladie

My SCH is fine thanks, very happy with it. My only real complaint was losing Energy Drain and that's back now. Please don't change anything SE. WHM is an absolute blast of fun to play though I'm not up to 80 yet. Can't comment on AST but my friends who have levelled it are happy with the changes that just happened and aren't looking for more. Overall, SE, judging by the comments of folks in my FC and crossworld linkshells, most players are fine with the healers as they are. It's just habitual forum users who are unhappy

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Well now what a wonderful dismissive attitude. Where do all these people come from so suddenly? AST's card system gets gutted for this simulacrum. It's not just "habitual forum users" unless you live under a rock.

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Originally Posted by Elladie

My SCH is fine thanks, very happy with it. My only real complaint was losing Energy Drain and that's back now. Please don't change anything SE. WHM is an absolute blast of fun to play though I'm not up to 80 yet. Can't comment on AST but my friends who have levelled it are happy with the changes that just happened and aren't looking for more. Overall, SE, judging by the comments of folks in my FC and crossworld linkshells, most players are fine with the healers as they are. It's just habitual forum users who are unhappy

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You're pretty dismissive of people's complaints there. And I'm not one to dismiss those who're having fun with it, hey great for those who're having fun, people like what they gonna like. But it seems the job has been changed to move away from what I like over the years, so I'm no longer having fun. I'd rather a happy medium TBH.

But I've played SCH since the very beginning. I was happy in ARR and HW, I didn't complain. I started to complain in SB just outside of the forum & mostly to myself and ShB kinda was a nail in the coffin, hence I've become vocal on the forums since. I'm not one normally to complain on the forums as I have previously taken hope that SE will fix anything that doesn't work or I accept that maybe whilst I don't like this one thing, but I still like this other thing, other people might like what I don't like and as long as I'm having fun overall, then it's fine.

Judging by the survey that went out through Reddit, most healers aren't fine with the way they are. I realise there is a statistical bias to the Reddit community, but arguably one of the better representations we have at the moment and more reliable than anecdotal evidence at least. And SCH ranked the least satisfied with a proportionate number of dissatisfied people. Though these were pre-5.05 stats, but I doubt Energy Drain would provide that much extra QoL to boost that rank.


Add too that the healer forums here have been pretty much on fire. A lot of people offering feedback and input and some of the main threads ranking up a high number of likes.

I really don't think it can be easily dismissed as "habitual forum users who are unhappy", you will always get them on forums, yes, but I'd argue what we're seeing is proportionally higher than what you'd expect for it to be dismissed as such.

I’m much the same. I was unhappy with the SCH changes in SB but didn’t say anything. I created an account for ShB specifically to comment on this, since SCH seems to be on a steady downwards trajectory and I’d like to help push against that if I can.

I agree, if we dont complain (whm should too, a class shouldnt be on top just because the other two are in a really bad spot but for its own design) we won't get the changes we deserve but honestly after this live letter I dont see them doing anything until 6.0 seeing how healers for them is a low priority

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Originally Posted by Sloprano

Like someone else posted here, Balance was the one everyone wanted so I think the best course of action would've been to remove the +damage altogheter. I'm not familiar with the lore of the card, but it could anything else. Like a convalescenec effect on the target.

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The lore of the card was that Balance equalized the difference between the strong and the weak. Which is why it boosted damage to allow your "weak" team to beat the "strong" boss. A lot of people have suggested it should have been reworked to Direct Hit, which would have put it in line with the value of the other DPS cards. There was also suggestions to rework spire to giving Det.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Same for building seals on AST. I found a couple of times yesterday for example where a card was wasted because we were in combat, but I technically wasn't because I hadn't hit anything or needed to cure yet. It's just a pain, because I might have put a shield on all my party members as it seems sensible to put a prepared buff out at the start of a fight I'd not instictively DPS. It just feels clunky to have to through a DPS move or heal down first.

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I actually find the AST system even worse than the SCH one, because you can still cast the ability out-of-combat---it just doesn't work. Imagine if scholar could cast aetherflow out-of-combat, and it incurred the sixty-second cooldown but just didn't give you any aetherflow. That's basically what astrologians are dealing with now.

And yes, I agree about the instinct thing. I lose like two seconds or more at the start of each fight trying to figure out why I can't cast excog. >.<

Changes I would like to see on SCH
1. Remove fairy casting animations to make her/it more responsive.
2. Let us cast atherflow upon entering a dungeon/raid/trial/instance. You can keep it to combat only for overland encounters.
3. Make the fairy autocast or a instacast. Make Selene a glamour and remove the useless button.
4. Return Atherflow mastery or change it to a 45 sec recast.

All healers
1. Reduce the cost of res 24% is punishing in a bad group.
2. Group cure I mean really we’re lvl frigging 80.

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Originally Posted by Elladie

My SCH is fine thanks, very happy with it. My only real complaint was losing Energy Drain and that's back now. Please don't change anything SE. WHM is an absolute blast of fun to play though I'm not up to 80 yet. Can't comment on AST but my friends who have levelled it are happy with the changes that just happened and aren't looking for more. Overall, SE, judging by the comments of folks in my FC and crossworld linkshells, most players are fine with the healers as they are. It's just habitual forum users who are unhappy

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Have you been to on the JP forums? JP AST thread has been pure chaos after the live letter, it has calmed down a bit because people told the ones who were writing they were quitting the job that it is a forum and not twitter lol, but it was tons and tons of people complaining (different people too, unlike here where is a smaller group) about the changes, with 40+ likes on post.

If you think we have been loud and obnoxious you haven't seen their mother language counterpart, each day new players flood to the forum to write a formal complaint, SE messed it up real bad this time, we all know instead of bringing WHM up with the other two, they decided to gut the others instead.

JP players are getting to get upset that it seems not even they are being listened, instead taking the feedback form external places.

And thats why we are never getting a fourth healer xD

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Originally Posted by Sathona

And thats why we are never getting a fourth healer xD

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with how badly they messed up healers im glad we didnt get a 4th

Lol the way things are and seem to be going we would be lucky to have 2 healers. They destroyed ast (lore, gameplay, flavor, fun) for sch they started by removing fairy and spells, so what's next lol. 3 healers with copied spell effects just different names and visuals. Ha. The devs put no thought I to the healer class thsts why it's just getting worse, boring. Even the lore does not make sense! Lore in a final fantasy game. Shame

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Originally Posted by Sathona

And thats why we are never getting a fourth healer xD

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Originally Posted by tikiwiki

with how badly they messed up healers im glad we didnt get a 4th

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What do you mean? aren't you looking forward to the new healer with 1 single target spell, 1 DoT, 1 AoE and ...

It has different looking spells so its totally different.

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Originally Posted by KanameYuuki

Have you been to on the JP forums? JP AST thread has been pure chaos after the live letter, it has calmed down a bit because people told the ones who were writing they were quitting the job that it is a forum and not twitter lol, but it was tons and tons of people complaining (different people too, unlike here where is a smaller group) about the changes, with 40+ likes on post.

If you think we have been loud and obnoxious you haven't seen their mother language counterpart, each day new players flood to the forum to write a formal complaint, SE messed it up real bad this time, we all know instead of bringing WHM up with the other two, they decided to gut the others instead.

JP players are getting to get upset that it seems not even they are being listened, instead taking the feedback form external places.

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So I decided to check out the JP forums cause usually we over blow a situation and they are alright with changes....Not this time. Their Astro thread is extra busy and so many are not happy about this.

If I had to guess I think right now SE knows that they messed up, but will not talk more confirm anything healer related due to not wanting to make people madder.

If anything expect next expansion to literally be a apology letter to healers cause I doubt they will fix them sooner than that.

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Originally Posted by Sathona

And thats why we are never getting a fourth healer xD

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In fact, they should have released a 4th healer instead of another dps.
Why ?
Because like they said for tank, 3 is not a good number for balance. Without GBN, imagine balance now 3 tanks for Main and Off spot. It would have been more difficult (but less than for healers).
The mistake of SE was to think that going for one direction "Pure" for every healer instead of doing 2 directions (like it was in the past) "Pure" and "Shield" was the right solution.
Having WHM/AST as Pure and SCH/4th healer as Shield is easier to balance and most importantly avoid to gut the identity, kit and fun of every job.
This direction we are in now, has maybe begun with the apparition of AST doing both Pure/Shield aspect.
They need to erase Nocturnal Stance (which didn't work for 4 years !) to move on !

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Originally Posted by tikiwiki

with how badly they messed up healers im glad we didnt get a 4th

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say they give ppl what they want we are back to Step 1
they wont release a 4th healer cause the current 3 do what they should do
and the circle jerk will repeat. aside from the sarcasm and jokes

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Originally Posted by Sathona

say they give ppl what they want we are back to Step 1
they wont release a 4th healer cause the current 3 do what they should do
and the circle jerk will repeat. aside from the sarcasm and jokes

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People do want a 4th healer, but they don't want it in current climate. If all the healers were both balanced, or at least close to balanced, and fun/unique to play, EVERYONE would love to have a 4th healer to thrown into the mix. As is now, the 4th healer would just be another WHM with a small gimmick that barely distinguishes it from the other 3 healers, and nobody wants that.

As a White Mage healer, I'm actually beginning to seethe now...

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Originally Posted by Elladie

My SCH is fine thanks, very happy with it. My only real complaint was losing Energy Drain and that's back now. Please don't change anything SE. WHM is an absolute blast of fun to play though I'm not up to 80 yet. Can't comment on AST but my friends who have levelled it are happy with the changes that just happened and aren't looking for more. Overall, SE, judging by the comments of folks in my FC and crossworld linkshells, most players are fine with the healers as they are. It's just habitual forum users who are unhappy

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That's kind of the problem though; i.e. with all 3 healers now more of less the same (pure heals with boring downtime-kits) you are either going to like all of them or like none of them. So yes, you may be fine with the way healers are, but for people that previously enjoyed SCH and / or AST (and found WHM boring) there is no longer a choice.

Never mind that the first response pointed out that WHM also needed fixes and there was a lot of agreement...

Guys, it doesn't matter whether they're a troll. We gain nothing by engaging with them. We've had this conversation. There's no point repeating ourselves.

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

Guys, it doesn't matter whether they're a troll. We gain nothing by engaging with them. We've had this conversation. There's no point repeating ourselves.

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True, honestly. They've gotten me on a couple of posts, about 1 or 2 of them, where they came off as genuine and said something that actually made sense. Guess now it's literally just bait.

And the only reason there are so many AST and SCH threads is because there aren't many WHM's making any threads.

As a SCH, I'm not gonna make a Whm thread with what needs changing simply because I don't think it's fair that me, a SCH, should say how WHM should play. Even then, the thread I made included WHM.

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Originally Posted by Sloprano

Like someone else posted here, Balance was the one everyone wanted so I think the best course of action would've been to remove the +damage altogheter. I'm not familiar with the lore of the card, but it could anything else. Like a convalescenec effect on the target.

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Was it really everyone? Because if that truly was the case, more than half the AST mains wouldn't have been upset that every card was turned into a balance card. In terms of lore, the effects were part of the actual lore. It's why they were explained in detail when doing the early AST quests.