Hardest and Easiest

Just curious - with Shadowbringers - what would be the hardest, most demanding rotation and the easiest?

NIN/SMN/MCH for hardest.

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Originally Posted by Laur1x

NIN/SMN/MCH for hardest.

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As a mch main.. i have to say ... what?

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Originally Posted by Laur1x

NIN/SMN/MCH for hardest.

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Ninja and Summoner for sure, because they are just loaded with abilities and it takes a lot of work to push out DPS. I wouldn't agree with Machinist as hardest, though. It's busy and has a lot going on, but it isn't nearly as reliant on Wildfire as it once was and doesn't have a strict rotation. The only difficulty comes from properly prioritizing your abilities.

I'd say RDM for easiest. Only ever a few buttons to push at any given time.

MCH before 5.0 was up there with NIN and SMN, but not anymore.

RDM and DNC for easiest though. With SAM and BLM a step up from there. Then maybe MCH, BRD, MNK and DRG fighting it out in the middle.

As a fairly new player, I'd say that BLM is pretty easy. Although I am not to the point where ley lines and such have come into play :P

In terms of pure DPS rotation Bard is without a doubt the easiest, because generally there are only three buttons that require pressing (Burst Shot, Bloodletter/Pitch Perfect procs and the occasional Iron Jaws). Add in Sidewinder every 60 seconds and maybe Apex Arrow during AoE and that’s all there is to it.

For hardest, while I have limited experience and understanding of the job (I just play it for fun really and it’s only level 74) I’ve found Ninja to have the most difficult rotation. On top of having to meet positionals and go through combos, you have Ninjustu to weave into the GCD, Ten Chi Jin to work into the rotation, Ninki abilities, all whilst having much lower DPS than most other jobs (from what I’ve read anyway)

In NIN really more complicated than MNK? I just got MNK to 50 and I'm sort of scared of continuing lol.

Right now it isn't bad because Dragon Kick and Bootshine alternate at the same rate as Twin Snakes and True Strike. So you only have to refresh Demolish every 3rd combo. But with GL4 and enough sks it seems like that will eventually drift and you'll end up with a... 36 button "rotation"? Since you'll be refreshing Leaden Fist every other combo, TS every 3rd combo, and Demolish every 4th. And each button has it's own positional tied in which gets harder to meet as you are keeping track of what needs to be refreshed in this combo, where to stand, and your increasingly low GCD. That's without even looking at making sure you are using Elixir Field and your chakras.

NIN appears to only have 2 positional WS and 1 positional ability so you aren't bobbing and weaving over the target's directional indicator. The main thing that seems to make it difficult looks like Kassatsu. What am I missing? Weaving ninjutsu doesn't seem hard since you just have to remember whether it's a 1, 2, or 3 mudras and the last mudra.

Red Mage, Samurai and Dancer are the easiest of their respective role.

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Originally Posted by Clicked

In NIN really more complicated than MNK? I just got MNK to 50 and I'm sort of scared of continuing lol.

Right now it isn't bad because Dragon Kick and Bootshine alternate at the same rate as Twin Snakes and True Strike. So you only have to refresh Demolish every 3rd combo. But with GL4 and enough sks it seems like that will eventually drift and you'll end up with a... 36 button "rotation"? Since you'll be refreshing Leaden Fist every other combo, TS every 3rd combo, and Demolish every 4th. And each button has it's own positional tied in which gets harder to meet as you are keeping track of what needs to be refreshed in this combo, where to stand, and your increasingly low GCD. That's without even looking at making sure you are using Elixir Field and your chakras.

NIN appears to only have 2 positional WS and 1 positional ability so you aren't bobbing and weaving over the target's directional indicator. The main thing that seems to make it difficult looks like Kassatsu. What am I missing? Weaving ninjutsu doesn't seem hard since you just have to remember whether it's a 1, 2, or 3 mudras and the last mudra.

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https://i.imgur.com/24o5XI5.jpg

First line is what you should be opening with... well, it bleeds into the second line a little. The first ninjutsu and hide is prepull ofc.

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Originally Posted by TaiyouSeishin

https://i.imgur.com/24o5XI5.jpg

First line is what you should be opening with... well, it bleeds into the second line a little. The first ninjutsu and hide is prepull ofc.

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tnx for that :)

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

Ninja and Summoner for sure, because they are just loaded with abilities and it takes a lot of work to push out DPS. I wouldn't agree with Machinist as hardest, though. It's busy and has a lot going on, but it isn't nearly as reliant on Wildfire as it once was and doesn't have a strict rotation. The only difficulty comes from properly prioritizing your abilities.

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This. MCH didn't even have a hard rotation back in SB, when your 1-2-3 was based off of RNG procs. Even the Wildfire rotation wasn't hard once you got into the groove of it, it was just busy, and unforgiving when it came to ping. Now, MCH is even easier, and much more forgiving. So it most definitely isn't hard now.

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Originally Posted by TaiyouSeishin

https://i.imgur.com/24o5XI5.jpg

First line is what you should be opening with... well, it bleeds into the second line a little. The first ninjutsu and hide is prepull ofc.

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Is this a real NIN rotation? Haven't played NIN since 70 but do you really want to Suiton start into a TCJ Suiton again?

Everyone here is wrong. Clearly, the hardest rotation is stone / glare as a whm. How they made it work with one button idk but man. It's so easy to mess up that one button.

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Originally Posted by SleepyNeko

Is this a real NIN rotation? Haven't played NIN since 70 but do you really want to Suiton start into a TCJ Suiton again?

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The first suiton is to use misui for a jump in starting ninki. The second is for trick attack

Edit: spelling (because of my damn thumbs)

Yep, need that extra ninki for bushin during trick window.

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Originally Posted by TaiyouSeishin

The first suiton is to use misui for a jump in starting ninki. The second is for trick attack

Edit: spelling (because of my damn thumbs)

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Thanks for the explanation!

I’d say. From hardest to easiest I’d run with

Ninja,

Summoner,

Monk,

Machinist,

Dragoon

Black mage

Samarui

Bard,

Red mage,

Dancer

I do feel though monk is a large drop in difficultly down from ninja and summoner and beneath monk their all easy to play tbh.

SE have done a great job at getting the entry level to their jobs pretty low on the majority But the opinions on the order itself will vary. Mainly because outside the top 3 the rest of them are pretty easy to play, it’s rly going to come down to what people struggle most with from this point onwards

I’d recommend ignoring difficulty and looking at what you enjoy the most :D

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Originally Posted by Drayos

I’d say. From hardest to easiest I’d run with

Ninja,

Summoner,

Monk,

Machinist,

Dragoon

Black mage

Samarui

Bard,

Red mage,

Dancer

I do feel though monk is a large drop in difficultly down from ninja and summoner and beneath monk their all easy to play tbh.

SE have done a great job at getting the entry level to their jobs pretty low on the majority But the opinions on the order itself will vary. Mainly because outside the top 3 the rest of them are pretty easy to play, it’s rly going to come down to what people struggle most with from this point onwards

I’d recommend ignoring difficulty and looking at what you enjoy the most :D

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I second this exact listing and the closing sentiment.

Except I might put Machinist somewhat below bard. It is very easy now. Otherwise the list is pretty spot on.

I think it’s deceptive to say mch is easy, while the rotation is not complex their cpm is the highest in the game this makes it difficult to maintain especially in more complex encounters.

I feel like SMN isn't really that hard though. It's essentially put up dots...spam ruin 3 and weave your oGCDs. Cast trance on CD.

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Originally Posted by Nabian

I feel like SMN isn't really that hard though. It's essentially put up dots...spam ruin 3 and weave your oGCDs. Cast trance on CD.

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hard is not the right term imo... its just unfamiliar to be way less mobil but twice as busy by buttonload/weaving, as well saving ruin4 for an even lamer bahamut, what absolutely fights your muscle memories - its kinda different, way faster and less satisfying (at least for me and i main smn since late arr)

but even tho what I have seen and heard is Nin even busier.... so i think we can handover the crown to them - at least for now ^^

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Originally Posted by Dortharl

I think it’s deceptive to say mch is easy, while the rotation is not complex their cpm is the highest in the game this makes it difficult to maintain especially in more complex encounters.

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Ninjas have a higher cpm by a very distinctive amount.

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Originally Posted by Nabian

I feel like SMN isn't really that hard though. It's essentially put up dots...spam ruin 3 and weave your oGCDs. Cast trance on CD.

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This is such an oversimplification. “Weave your oCDs”. What makes the job complicated is we have a ton of oCD abilities and we have several timers to keep track of. Trance, ED, egi assaults, devotion, enkindle, tri disaster, DoTs. We also get punished heavily for not not having 100% uptime on DOTs, as it impacts ruin damage.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

This is such an oversimplification. “Weave your oCDs”. What makes the job complicated is we have a ton of oCD abilities and we have several timers to keep track of. Trance, ED, egi assaults, devotion, enkindle, tri disaster, DoTs. We also get punished heavily for not not having 100% uptime on DOTs, as it impacts ruin damage.

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I agree with Sequora's sentiment. It is an oversimplification. The rotation is far to rigid and mistakes during the wrong phases cost a heavy penalty. We also suffer in heavy movement fights maybe more than most other classes now. The dot falloff vs Ruin damage is just bad design. 5.0 smn is riddled with multiple issues that need to be addressed. Anyone can memorize the rotation even though it's quite the pill to swallow, but maximizing on smn is now tedious and rigid. That's more my issue with the difficulty of the class vs the actual rotation.

SMN Rotation: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ring&sle=true#

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Originally Posted by TaiyouSeishin

https://i.imgur.com/24o5XI5.jpg

First line is what you should be opening with... well, it bleeds into the second line a little. The first ninjutsu and hide is prepull ofc.

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I have to say this hot mess definitely ninja opener and everything for you to low dps low reward heavy Heavy skill play with Heavy required good internet for mudras and ofgcds. Square thinks we dont need a buff. Yeah okay if no buff then for gods sake make our stuff easier....

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Originally Posted by Laur1x

NIN/SMN/MCH for hardest.

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I can agree with ninja and smn

but MCH WUTTT? Mch is very casual friendly and easy atm.

I don’t find MCH is difficult at all lol, it is actually a lot easier to play now.

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Originally Posted by Jilliebeans

I don’t find MCH is difficult at all lol, it is actually a lot easier to play now.

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For me Tons easier, Before 5.0 I struggled with MCH! I would have to agree that it would be below bard only for the fact MCH lacks DoTs you have to keep up with. Keep in my I'm just an average player and I don't really care for what I feel are overly complicated openers/rotations.

The list is pretty spot on for what I've played in 5.0 so far.

I have a hard time especially with AoE Rotation as a Bard. Not that it is complicated but I never know how many Dots I should spread out before starting AoE Damage. It really makes me nervous whenever I play Bard, lol.

Summoner played great until lvl 72 (my personal opinion) then they had this terrible Idea to wave Aoe-Rotation with single Rotation through that poenix stance. And with that particulary little change, my PS4-Controller Hotbar ended in a complete mess. I seriously havent found a good way to place all the core skills on a easy and fast accessable button... while it makes un to watch SMN fighting, it's just a skill blow-out. And another Problem of the SMN remains: This class just cannot do controlled bursts in emergency situations. The burst phase is very limited within a continous rotation.

Currently trying to level up a MCH. So far I am having a blast with this class! Wouldnt wonder if it becomes my new mainclass.

The only thing in this game that could be considered "hard" are encounters and learning them. Regarding classes, after a half hour+ on the dummy, your rotation is your rotation. People really get caught up in the "huurrr I play a HaRd class so I'm bigger epeen than u" mentality. After you learn your rotation, it comes down to executing it during the mechanics. Some classes have less clunk attributed to them, so doing said rotation isn't drastically different than what you'd do on a dummy. I main SMN and I wouldn't say its hard, but it sure as hell is clunky, and unforgiving if you personally mess up your weaves. That said, play what you find fun/looks the best glamoured.

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Originally Posted by GUkraine

The only thing in this game that could be considered "hard" are encounters and learning them. Regarding classes, after a half hour+ on the dummy, your rotation is your rotation. People really get caught up in the "huurrr I play a HaRd class so I'm bigger epeen than u" mentality. After you learn your rotation, it comes down to executing it during the mechanics. Some classes have less clunk attributed to them, so doing said rotation isn't drastically different than what you'd do on a dummy. I main SMN and I wouldn't say its hard, but it sure as hell is clunky, and unforgiving if you personally mess up your weaves. That said, play what you find fun/looks the best glamoured.

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i agree in a way, but im ngl taking Ninja to a First time clear and taking a RDM to a First time clear.. would be two very different difficulties :P

while i agree most jobs are within the same difficulty.. i would say having to look at ur bars or having a More Micro-management requiring Set up would Easily Cause a harder time focusing on the mechanics leading to dying faster.

Just started playing dancer and its indeed so easy, like playing guitar hero on the easiest difficulty, just press the shiny thing, that plus the fact that its a ranged job really makes it the perfect class for beginners.

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Originally Posted by armandojc3

Just started playing dancer and its indeed so easy, like playing guitar hero on the easiest difficulty, just press the shiny thing, that plus the fact that its a ranged job really makes it the perfect class for beginners.

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I agree 100%. Out of all the dps jobs I've played over time, dancer is by far the easiest.

Dancer has several factors that make it easy: priority system (learn what to prioritize over a complex rotation), ranged (ability to attack from both close and afar, no positionals), no casting time (extremely mobile), and no real resource management (unless you want to count fourfold feathers and esprit but they don't even compare to monk's greased lightning). There are much fewer buttons to press as opposed to a job like summoner.

Some will say red mage, samurai, or bard is the easiest dps job, but that title really goes to dancer.

Monk is still my favorite dps job, but if I know I'm going to run content where there will be a lot of point-blank aoes and proximity attacks, I'll take dancer. Dancer makes for a more relaxed run. Actually, playing dancer makes me feel like I'm cheesing it. Playing dancer is like bowling with bumper guards while everyone else isn't, but your score is still weighed the same.

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Originally Posted by Hunky

I agree 100%. Out of all the dps jobs I've played over time, dancer is by far the easiest.

Dancer has several factors that make it easy: priority system (learn what to prioritize over a complex rotation), ranged (ability to attack from both close and afar, no positionals), no casting time (extremely mobile), and no real resource management (unless you want to count fourfold feathers and esprit but they don't even compare to monk's greased lightning). There are much fewer buttons to press as opposed to a job like summoner.

Some will say red mage, samurai, or bard is the easiest dps job, but that title really goes to dancer.

Monk is still my favorite dps job, but if I know I'm going to run content where there will be a lot of point-blank aoes and proximity attacks, I'll take dancer. Dancer makes for a more relaxed run. Actually, playing dancer makes me feel like I'm cheesing it. Playing dancer is like bowling with bumper guards while everyone else isn't, but your score is still weighed the same.

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i have to admit

i have concerns to it.

Somewhere a Mentality was built that lifting Ninjas and Summoners Difficulty was Fine, but SAM Was considered too hard to play in its SB Iteration, yet SAM was considered the easiest melee job to play. it seems extremely disjointed in Skill curve realistically i dont know what they're shooting for, is there idea to make 2 difficult jobs and the rest easymode? cause it'll never work because the jobs increasing in difficulty Become of the mindset that they're DPS Should be higher etc etc.

I thought if they were gonna make any Caster harder to play RDM Would be the top candidate as u could prolly add Difficulty to it and it still remain the Easier caster option...

i dunno which side their bating for in Difficulty. and i feel they need to find a Line of difficulty they want all jobs to meet Instead of Pushing things to Easy as hell or hard as Hell.

Black mage should be ranked higher as it has a semi complicated rotation and is unforgiving of mistakes.

what? black mage is the most forgiving of casters at least maybe of all jobs. you die as smn during bahamut/phoenix = bye bye dps. you die as rdm with no lucid up = bye bye mana
blm can just umbral ice and carry on like nothing happened

I personally am finding black mage ‘rotation’ hard to master. Death recovery on black mage is great! I can’t compare to summoner and I am not trying to compare jobs. I started playing this game because it was fun. I want to keep having fun and my feelings about the jobs are just about how to keep having fun. I don’t want it to be easy just a little more forgiving. If your job is less forgiving I wouldn’t mind if you had a post asking for your job to be more forgiving, I would support it. Let’s all have fun.