I have to honestly say I am still not at all impressed with the class changes, specifically the changes to Astrologian and White Mage, ironically I have no complaints about any of the DPS classes.
The issues I have as far as Astrologian are.
1) Cards virtually all do the same thing now, which is boring and unimaginative.
2) Seals for Divination cannot be gained unless in combat, which is also bad because sometimes even when I am in combat and it just started, I will use a Card on myself or another party member who is in combat and no Seals will be gained. Either which way, this effect should work in and out of combat.
3) Astrologian healing feels unnecessarily weak compared to how it was in Stormblood.
4) Draw was split into Draw and Play when that is totally unnecessary when letting Draw start it's cooldown while a Card is held in it is perfectly doable since Redraw can start it's cooldown without all three charges needing to be used. This alteration just causes unnecessary button bloat.
5) I miss having Royal Road so that I could make one card improve another card in some manner, that was neat and intuitive. But since all the Cards all do the same thing now.....yeah....:/
6) Astrologian damage potencies are to low.
7) MP management due to improperly tuned MP costs is bad. While WHM on the other hand has AMAZING mp management and unlike my AST never has an issue with running out of MP.
8) Divination's cooldown is like....a lil to long....
9) Horoscope is confusing in that you have no idea if it has been upgraded to Horoscope Helios or not, I mean sure you would know if you use it then cast Helios or Aspected Helios then yeah in that light it would assuredly have its upgraded effect, but it would be a nice Quality of Life adjustment if we saw some buff or change in the Horoscope icon that it indeed has been changed.
The issues I have as far as White Mage are.
1) The loss of Aero III.
2) Holy damage nerfed.
3) Lilies take to long to gain when they should be gained like they were before, when someone is healed with Cure I or Cure II.
Would also be nice if Protect came back.
Having played the expansion.....
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07-28-2019, 07:36 AMOotarionHaving played the expansion.....
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07-28-2019, 09:05 AMBacent
1) I do miss the AoE DoT we could use, did help a good bit when we had to focus on healing after
2) Yeah, it's nerfed on enemy groups that are under 9 enemies, otherwise after that it's a 'buff', but that won't happen much and if you're the only healer you go more important things to do then, but you can use it a bit more before MP runs out it feels
3) That would be broken if they made lilies back to whenever you use a single target heal. You'd get too many lilies and your healing would be Cure I/II -> Afflatus Solace -> Cure I/II -> Afflatus Solace -> ad nauseum - Only using blood lily when it pops. Multiple skills rely on lilies and giving them out like candy would make the job too simple feeling. -
07-28-2019, 09:07 AMRyuDragnier
AST 2: That's because you don't have any aggro on the enemy. You need to be on the enemy's aggro list to get a seal.
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07-28-2019, 09:19 AMCazzT
The change to AST cards makes them feel meaningless now. I find myself just slapping the card on the tank, or not even bothering with them at all, far too often. Before, I would have the cards running every chance I got.
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07-28-2019, 09:20 AMVahlnir
This expansion is amazing...if you aren't a healer. I feel bad for healers.
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07-28-2019, 09:28 AMLunarEmeraldNo need to feel bad for white mage. White mage is amazing this expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
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07-28-2019, 09:44 AMLiteBrite
It's funny their excuse for not coming out with new healer was " balancing the healing classes" and that was a fail. They used that excuse in stormblood and now in shadowbringers. Four years to balance healers and it still didn't happen. For some reason they need 6 years to balance the healers, before we get another healing class. It would've been better for everyone if they left the healing classes as they were and just buffed the white mage a bit.
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07-28-2019, 10:07 AMKazrah
So I'm gonna go through these one at a time.
So the general argument behind that particular change is basically because everyone playing Astrologian was always fishing for Balance cards, so devs figured that they would just cut the middle man. Yes, it makes the card game not as fun, but how the system works now means less distraction on the card mini-game and you can't blame bad card play on RNG, meaning that the job becomes more accessible to players who were originally confused by what cards they wanted to prioritize on the spot when people are dying because they're not healing (a.k.a. the primary purpose that Astrologian should be brought in for in the first place).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
I kinda agree with this, but it's more of just a trifle that you have to get used to. I think it was intended so that you can't pre-load for a Divination right at the start of a battle, which is a lot more understandable. I recommend starting with a heal because, you know....Astrologian kinda does that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
So hate to say this, but welcome to being somewhat balanced. Astrologian has been far too powerful for the past expansion and a half, practically cementing itself in metas for the past couple of years because of how broken card buffs were. I'll definitely admit that they still need better adjustments, but for now, they're still unfortunately a lot closer to where devs want them to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
Usually whenever something like this is done, it's because of some "spaghetti code"-related reason. In this case, I think it's not just the Draw cooldown, but also the ability to keep a card held indefinitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
Also after playing the button bloat incarnate job that is Gunbreaker, Play and Draw don't feel as bad. It's also a welcome change for a button masher like me who messed up cards before because of spamming my button for Draw one too many times.
So this goes back to your first point in that less thought on cards means more focus on your main purpose of healing. I also think that card seals may come into play at some point in the future to work similarly to Royal Road, but I think for now, it's just testing the newer card system to see how well it works from a developmental standpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
So I think that's intended to factor in the damage bonuses granted by cards to other people, so even if they did get buffed, they might still be seen as too low. Gravity I know is lower because it's a ranged AoE compared to AoE's of White Mage and Scholar, which both require being in melee range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
So that's because White Mage has two things going for it: a 5% MP generator every 45 seconds (Assize) and more reliance on healing abilities that don't cost MP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
I'd expect something to change for that pretty soon, whether it be a change for Astrologian (likely buffs to ogcd heals and further reduced MP costs) or White Mage and Scholar brought down to Astrologian's level in terms of MP management.
This I definitely agree on. Maybe shrink it down to two minutes to match up with Dancer's two-minute damage buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
Overall, Astrologian is in fact in a pretty bad spot right now--hell, I'm not looking forward to leveling it--but I ultimately know that it's really nowhere near the end of the world for them. Just what happens when you go from being the most broken raid asset in the game to being slightly closer to balanced. Yes, they could use more adjustments (some of which were brought up at press events), but all you can really do is just adapt or switch to something else.
Both White Mage and Scholar got a lot of their AoE damage frontloaded to tanks and DPS, because shockingly, devs actually want healers to heal. I know, crazy, isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
As for lilies, I don't mind it mostly because I almost never had lilies gained when I played White Mage during Stormblood. I almost never used Cure I or Cure II because between tank strength and a plethora of oGCD heals, they were never necessary. If they reversed the change now, it would just promote poor gameplay due to overhealing to speed through getting lilies and using them for using Afflatus Misery as often as possible, meaning the damage from that would get nerfed drastically to offset for that abusive playstyle to the point where that whole system would be more ineffective than just spamming Glare.
Protect was actually pretty useless (no more than 3% damage reduction compared to what bigger buffs we had), and devs had been wanting to get rid of it almost since Heavensward. While it was a convenient green light to start pulling stuff in dungeons, I'm glad that it's one less thing I have to think about as a healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
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07-28-2019, 10:18 AMSchanWhat i find hilarious is they're "working on healers" yet did a better job at fixing tanks which was not their aim. I can't decide if i should laugh or cryQuote:
Originally Posted by LiteBrite
edit: actually thinking about this does that mean i should be worried if they ever announce they are going to work on tanks?
other than that i think every role has a few issues. I believe nin is in a rough spot when it comes to dps. drk is arguably the weakest of the tanks. healers.. the only okay one is whm... and i feel like this expansion has made a lot of jobs clunkier. i mean we used to have like 2 or 3 jobs that were clunky. now it feels like we have more clunkier jobs than before. i could be wrong. -
07-28-2019, 10:25 AMCazzTYea, but you don't fix the unique aspect of the job by making that unique aspect meaningless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
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07-28-2019, 11:06 AMMikhaill
I'd be happy if the renamed Divine Bension to Protect or Proshell I guess.
Why remove an iconic skill?
AST is a mess, all I need to say there.
I know, it's also a mini Adblo too, but in other games Protect didn't last 30 mins either lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by LunarEmerald
Just reduced physical damage (Proshell being phys + mag) for x turns.
I just want the name back for WHM lol. -
07-28-2019, 11:30 AMLunarEmeraldIt's closer to stoneskin than protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhaill
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07-28-2019, 12:44 PMDonovanLifeweaverQuote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
totally agree.
no one on here gives a *** about my pov but....
1 card for each dps type melee, caster range
1 card crit for each dps type melee, caster range
1 card for mitigation for tanks
1 card for ressource management
reincorporate the ast skill that allowed to get an aoe version weaker or single target buffed effect( somethine rarer to happen)
that would be it because with SHB, like you said, we lost the option of choice or to fiddle around with cards and the trill of hoping for the right card to come up -
07-28-2019, 01:11 PMLunarEmeraldIt depends on the game. In some Final Fantasy's protect is infinite until the end of the battle and others it only lasts a few turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhaill
They could always give us a real protect. Something like reduce damage taken by 10% for 60 seconds for a single target. Essentially a powerful tank cooldown healers have that only applies to a single target unlike other mitigation abilities. In exchange for 1 target the duration is significantly longer. -
07-28-2019, 01:31 PMDonovanLifeweaverwe had it it was called stoneskinQuote:
Originally Posted by LunarEmerald
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07-28-2019, 01:49 PMLunarEmeraldStoneskin was different. It negated damage. Protect in Final Fantasy games doesn't negate damage, it reduces it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonovanLifeweaver
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07-28-2019, 02:04 PMXatsh
Game needs some balance patches for alot of the jobs.
Ast is in a horrible place right now and needs some major buffs.
Whm honestly feel fairly op atm, probably is due for a small nerf. Lilly/Holy change does not bother me to be honest. Losing the Aoe Dot was a negative over all. -
07-28-2019, 02:19 PMFynlarOnly if you're hitting too few things with it. With 7 targets it's nearly the same total potency, and 8+ the new Holy is actually higher total potency.Quote:
2) Holy damage nerfed.
No thanks. For many players this would actually result in gaining lilies slower, or else have to cast useless Cures they might not need to cast in the first place.Quote:
3) Lilies take to long to gain when they should be gained like they were before, when someone is healed with Cure I or Cure II.
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07-28-2019, 02:38 PMCallinon1: No the cards actually do the same thing now. Nothing virtual about it. This change was made because of the prior card system HEAVILY favoring Balance (and to a lesser degree Spear) as the only useful cards in the deck. The others were royal road or minor arcana fodder. Now all 6 cards are useful in exactly the same way. The important thing now is seals, not individual cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
2: Yeah I've reported this as a bug. I've been in combat, on the aggro table, and still not been given my seal. I think it's a latency problem, where the client is checking with the server for whether I'm in combat or not instead of making that determination itself. Regardless it's a pointless check. The idea there should be that you can't gain seals ahead of time, but with Divination on such a big cooldown it hardly matters if I can gain seals out of combat or not. If the concern was that AST players would make their groups sit there while they built seals before a boss pull, then the obvious solution is to make something like Sleeve Draw grant all 3 seals if used out of combat or something. Not this. This is silly.
3: It does feel weaker. Can't argue that one.
4: I actually like this setup better for drawing and playing cards. So the most awkward adjustment for me was moving from playing primarily aoe cards to having to play every card on a person. When Draw was changing into the card ability itself I couldn't do anything about this. But now with Play being a thing, I can create a mouseover macro to play the card on my mouseover target. This is actually much better and makes the cards feel a lot less awkward to use. Also button bloat? You lost Royal Road and Spread and gained Play. It's actually one fewer button for playing with cards as you had in Stormblood.
5: I miss Royal Road too. But with the more generic cards it kind of didn't fit anyway. I mean, in this system for instance, I wouldn't really WANT to spread Balance because it'd be wrong for about half the party.
6: Depends on the damage output from the other healers. If we're right in line with them, then it's fine.
7: No, this one's on you. Manage your mp better.
8: Definitely. Divination isn't nearly powerful enough for the cooldown and requirements it has. 3 minutes and 3 different seals required for full effect? An effect that lasts 10 seconds? Trick Attack and Technical Step are the only really comparable abilities and both of them are strictly better than Divination.
9: Just cast your Helios after you use Horoscope. What's the problem here? Try to keep this one piece of information in your head for literally 20 seconds. This one isn't a real problem. -
07-28-2019, 03:49 PMDuskanethey worked on tank balance the entirety of SB its why they are the most balance they have ever been in ShBQuote:
Originally Posted by Schan
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07-28-2019, 04:36 PMNanaWilohI have mained Ast since the start of stormblood they are far worse off then you think. Weak potencies and long cool downs on our OGCD's forcing us to GCD heavily, which is a nightmare on large pulls cause you are pretty much going to blow most of your OGCD's keeping the tank alive through it unless the dps is borderline god level. If you dont use Neutral sect on large pulls you will find Benefic II to be as about as useful as slapping a band aid on someone whos guts are falling out. I am not even going to mention the Mana issues, lucid dreaming barely helps if at all..Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
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07-28-2019, 05:09 PMSturmChurro
I have been leveling AST after never really playing it before (only whm as heals seriously). I think it is actually pretty good, and very useful to have for damage utility. However, I think there are too many cards for what little they do. Either melee or ranged dps % increase, pretty substantial, but a bit of bloat. I find that I don't even care what card I draw, I partially care what color of aspect the card I draw is, and once I have all 3 aspects, and even sometimes when I don't, I'll just turn it into a lord or lady. The healing is actually more fun than I thought it would be. I will hold off on endgame thoughts until I get it to 80.
On large pulls where I may have trouble, or when I face tank I personally combine a use of swiftcast if I have to, and the extremely powerful lightspeed. Generally I use lucid dreaming at the very start of some pulls, or some damage, or just in general I use it when on cd, as in I use it when I have barely used like 5-10% of my MP, while I am still casting. Still, I will hold off true judgement until I have done actual endgame healing with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by NanaWiloh
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07-28-2019, 06:07 PMErryKWhy? I'm enjoying healing this expansion, even AST. Although I do think AST needs MP adjustments and potency buffs, in addition to Divination CD reduced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
As for WHM, Aero 3 being removed was unnecessary, but Holy being nerfed but letting me do the same damage on all mobs? I'll take it, as for Lilies, no thanks, the old system was garbage. Much prefer the current one. -
07-28-2019, 06:14 PMQeilosI had to argue with so many people over this, bosses get tuned with things like this in mind. If every healer has it a bosses damage will be increased to compensate since you can assume it will ALWAYS be there it completely nullifies its own existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
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07-28-2019, 06:36 PMGranyala1) The loss of damage options in general is pretty lame because the epicly failed on the "make healers heal moar" front. I still spend way too much time in a fight massaging the glare button, trying to not fall asleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ootarion
2) I'm ok with that since they reduced the mana cost and we can spam it indefinitely now.
Never gave a hoot about protect. Glad to see it gone, one less GCD I have to waste on people that die. -
07-28-2019, 09:01 PMNedkelDancer should have been healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteBrite
I was hoping for a healer and tank, no idea why they have not do that. -
07-28-2019, 11:39 PMKeddera_StormMoon
I got SCH and WHM to 80 and have no complaints
I have AST 2 mil away from hitting 80 and I'm not impressed.
AST is in a really really bad place in terms of healing power right now. The cards I don't mind so much as most AST's were drawing for balance anyway. But the healing power just isn't there. It's rare I can get damage of my own off during a big pull without getting Lightspeed involved. -
07-28-2019, 11:44 PMZyneste
Holies damage has been buffed on 5 or more targets and is the same at 4. With much less MP cost...
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07-29-2019, 02:23 AMDonovanLifeweaverstoneskin offered a temporary 10% negation for your max hpQuote:
Originally Posted by LunarEmerald
protect is 20%, idr correctly, increase in magic defence and physical defence for 30 minutes......
if you take all the dmg you can take in 30 minutes and compare it to 10% max hp absorb./... im pretty sure protect > stoneskin in terms of mitigation -
07-29-2019, 03:02 AMAngelCheese77
Protect really wasn't that useful. Wasn't it like, minimal % protection?
Lilies aren't that bad to get, just keep fighting and healing. I've gotten them quick enough to then throw out a Blood Lily.
As for Aero III, eh .. my Dia and Glare can do some serious damage so I don't notice much change.
What really hurts is when I'm in a dungeon that is synched at ~50. Like, over half my heals poof away >< -
07-29-2019, 03:39 AMEaMett
WHM is the best it's ever been lol. So you lost Aero III, big deal. Afflatus skills are amazing and surprisingly well balanced when you look at the math. Also no way should they add lilies for casting Cures. If you're casting cures in the current content you're playing WHM wrong. You should almost never need them.