It doesn't seem to have a purpose at all. At 80 with basic ronkan gear its healing for 900 and crits for maybe 1300(An impressive 1.1% of HP)? My health potion heals for more and requires no cast time.
I get it, we have the spell because of the tumor known as scholar. But i don't understand why it wasn't pruned with everything else, it serves no purpose now, as we can't even heal the mobile dot anymore. Comparing it to our contemporaries the Dancer and Red Mage just make the problem evident as both of them have effective and situationaly useful heals. I do not expect to have as good as heals as redmage, as even my lv60 RDM heals for 3500-4000 single heals not counting the dual cast. But i would expect it to be on par with dancer given it has a 2.5s cast time and costs mana.
Could i recommend fixing this instead of removing it? If it cannot be modified because of scholar, perhaps just give us a new one with some summoner flare. Let us summon Eos temporarily to heal us. Fairy/Sylph has been a recurring healing summon for a few games now. Give it the same 1minute cooldown as dancer, keep the cast time, and make it heal for atleast 30% of our life, and maybe make it an aoe. Ground targeted if you really want us to feel bad for using it.
This spell has simple been terrible since its inception but has only gotten worse. The fact it wasn't removed is mind boggling frankly.
Why does summoner even have Physick anymore?
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07-26-2019, 08:24 AMAtamisWhy does summoner even have Physick anymore?
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07-26-2019, 08:30 AMTaranok
What's really bizarre is that Arcanist and Summoner have a unique version of Physick, that....scales with mind for some reason. Scholar has its own unique, scholar-exclusive version of Physick that I assume is identical to Summoner's physick.
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07-26-2019, 08:33 AMPowercow
Personally I think it'd be kinda cool to have Physick change based off what Egi you have out. Ifrit has a little direct heal, Garuda a HoT, and Titan a shield. Nothing big, nothing impressive, just some little Summoner-ish command to give them a little more flavor and flexibility. It still probably would never see use in most endgame content, but it'd be a neat addition for the open world or dungeons.
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07-26-2019, 08:41 AMIscah
I also discovered the "1% HP" potency the other day and it's just... why do we even have this.
Even 5% or something might scrape us through in a pinch somewhere.
About the only use I can think of for Physick is that it might be the one spell we can cast 'on demand' for gpose purposes. -
07-26-2019, 08:43 AMKurando
Physick should upgrade to a barrier at later levels that doesn't require Titan. That would free Titan to having two offensive Egi Assault Actions capable of processing Ruin IV as opposed to one at the moment.
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07-26-2019, 08:47 AMAndaryu
I think its just to help low level players level up Summoner.
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07-26-2019, 09:17 AMdinnertime
It's not a big deal, so I don't know why people keep bringing up this "issue". I forgot it even existed until I saw this thread.
Personally I don't want Physick scaling to INT and/or having any use since it'll make SMN no different from RDM in utility, making SMN into another (and more of a) support caster role and they'll probably lower SMN's already low DPS because of it. I'd rather get it deleted. -
07-26-2019, 11:01 AMAtamis
Probably because it is an issue with people who play summoner. It is a worthless button on a class without a meaningful way to mitigate any damage. We do not get mana ward. We (now) get titan, who is never out because its worthless, and the summoner has to command it to cast the shield, who then might feel like casting said shield on us.
There is little utility, as you put it, in summoners having a cure. We will not be raid healing, nor could we keep up with any serious amount of damage. Its nothing more than a bandage save low level dungeons where the healer eats it and the boss has 30% or so life left.
I would rather it get deleted as well. But i would like some sort of defensive cooldown to compensate. That weak heal is the only one we have at a moments notice. So we have even less survivablity than a BLM with even less of the damage. Are we ever going to do BLM damage? Doubtful, so I'll keep trying to push for the "utility" of a mediocre heal. -
07-26-2019, 12:17 PMdinnertime
It's never been a huge issue for me (as someone who's played SMN since ARR) nor most people, it never was since its inception. Yes, it would be nice for SMN to have a defensive cooldown that isn't from Titan, or they could just outright make Titan more support-oriented and more useful in combat.
But I wouldn't call Physick a part of SMN's utility when it doesn't make much of a difference lol. To be honest if the healer "eats" it you might as well just raise them if they die. They are more capable of healing themselves. -
07-26-2019, 12:19 PMbattleshadow66
Well its there for SCH. Problem is SE should of gave SMN something to replace it with. Like Drain, give us a talent that upgrades Physick to Drain. Make it a 30 or 45 sec CD that does like 200-300 Potency to a target and heals for whatever...
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07-26-2019, 02:29 PMMVX21
I'm all for either getting rid of it altogether or giving it a trait that evolves it into "summon moogle" or something similar. Put it on a 60s cd and make it a decent aoe heal for emergencies. It's honestly not a problem, it's just kind of a peculiarity that they have such a pointless skill when they've been mostly trying to prune out extra buttons. Then again I feel like whoever was in charge of SMN for the expansion didn't get that memo about button bloat.
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07-26-2019, 02:55 PMZyneste
Delete Physick. Put Sleep as a role skill. Doesn't add to BLM's Button bloat and if a BLM can solo with just manaward + sleep, a smn can solo with Earthen Ward + sleep.
If SMN was going to get a survivability boost in the open world, this is where I'd put it. Anything else is going to affect raid settings. -
07-26-2019, 04:02 PMArchwizard
Unpopular opinion, but I think each caster DPS should have two survivability tools.
One, an emergency tool that comes at no damage loss but is not always available -- Manaward for instance. Equivalents to Bloodbath, like Necrogenesis. Even with a good healer covering you, it's a tool for when you know a raid-wide hit is coming or you just need to soak a pillar; in RDM's case I'd also argue on the grounds of use covering their low survivability during their melee phase.
The other, an on-demand tool, always available and reliable but comes at a damage loss. Use for leveling, soloing, spots when the healer is down or struggling. Consider for instance MNK's Fists of Earth here. RDM has Vercure, the former Energy Drain for SMN counted too (kinda). This is where I would argue for BLM to gain a buffed version of Drain to supplement Manaward. Since the tool comes at a loss and would be less efficient than a healer's own abilities, much as a healer's damage is less effective than a DPS, you would still defer to a healer instead of using these tools except in clutch situations.
Now, if I were to apply my philosophy then we end up in a predicament, in that even in a world where Physick granted a worthwhile amount of healing to the caster, SMN ends up with two high-frequency survivability tools that each amount to a damage loss.
Now, in the personal interest of not homogenizing each job (and just preferring the old school flavor of summoning what you need), I would be more willing to argue for the retention of SMN's Earthen Ward, but then we still face the issues that Physick bloats the kit. Meanwhile if we argue for buffing Physick on the grounds we already have it, Earthen Ward is not only somewhat redundant but also a bigger damage loss than Physick, since you have to spend two GCDs swapping summons and spend a cooldown rather than just one GCD on a heal.
But, this is all just armchair deving on my part. -
07-26-2019, 09:36 PMZynesteSummoner summons are ogcd now. Smn loses an auto attack from ifrit and ifrits egi assault. Much less damage loss than spending a gcd on healing. [Even though physick is 1.5 seconds now so you can partially weave with it. ]Quote:
Originally Posted by Archwizard
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07-26-2019, 09:45 PMRongwayJust to be clear, what I'm posting right now is not to argue in either way about whether SMN should have a functioning heal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atamis
But! I feel it's important that we're all clear about something: dualcast doesn't factor into "but RDM healing potency" arguments at all, ever. The second heal still costs a full GCD. Dualcast does not make RDM able to cast two spells in one GCD. Any arguments involving RDM need to treat Vercure as a single 350 potency heal, and not as a 700 potency heal.
This is not an indictment of you specifically! It's just whenever we have the Physick discussion, invariably someone eventually compares Vercure to Cure II. -
07-27-2019, 12:38 AMNalien
Change Physick on Summoner to an oGCD Dissipation style ability; Kills your pet and restores respectable HP. Functions as an ohshi- button, and if you're swapping to Titan anyway in that scenario, might as well get some HP out of it too.
Alternatively, just delete it entirely, because there is really no point to such a weak skill... If they're worried about stepping into Vercure territory... IDK, maybe make it a Regen instead of direct heal... Fits with Everlasting Flight at least... If we're going that route though, I'd say change it to Sustain as well, just so that animation lives on somehow... -
07-30-2019, 04:01 AMJordieYG
am i missing something? im almost postive that smn does not have physick. it's sch only. just because you have an ability on your hotbar doesn't mean that the job necessarily can use that action. pre shb it did, but not anymore. maybe it's just leftover on your bar from pre shb. you can take WAR's Inner Release and slap it on your WHM hotbar, doesn't mean WHM has Inner Release
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07-30-2019, 04:08 AMKurandoYes it's just you. Open your SMN Actions & Traits menu and you'll see Physick there. The funny thing is, SCH has it under Job now and not Class as it was before, so why wasn't it removed for SMN, hmm who knows...Quote:
Originally Posted by JordieYG
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07-30-2019, 05:50 AMSinh119
It's just for 1-50 content. Gives you some early game survivability. While it becomes exponentially less useful the higher level you get, I'm against removing abilities that are situationally useful like that in general. It's meant to fulfill a specific niche and it does that fine.
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07-30-2019, 11:33 AMHasratFrom the looks of things, it sorta feels like they're genuinely getting close to breaking SCH off from this forced dependency on ACN. Physick and two Maim and Mend traits are all it has carried over. Makes me think they might try making it a classless job like everything post-ARR in the next expansion or two, maybe finally giving them a little more freedom to work with things on both SCH and SMN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurando
Or maybe I'm just being optimistic. -
07-30-2019, 12:23 PMKurandoThe interesting thing is that Resurrection remains untouched, it wasn't duplicated like Ruin or Physick. Not that I'm advocating it should have been changed somehow (there are other threads for that), but by keeping it as a Class action it seems to cement the idea that ACN/SMN should keep access to a rez despite some players that may think it should be removed it adjusted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
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07-30-2019, 01:30 PMTaranokPhysick isn't shared. ACN/SMN has a unique version just for them that scales off of Mind (for reasons), and SCH has an identical copy of the ACN/SMN version but that is exclusively for SCH that also scales off mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
Only Maim & Mend and Raise are shared at this point. -
07-30-2019, 04:45 PMHasratHm. You are correct. Kinda makes it even more intriguing that Physick is the only thing listed under "Class" when you're SCH, with everything else under "Job." Unless I'm remembering wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranok
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07-31-2019, 12:16 AMRyskim
Scholar is a nice job. But the reason Physick is there is not because of Scholar and you should know very well it is because of Arcanist (ACN).
It is obvious that they are on the way to completely remove Arcanist and separate both SCH and SMN, It's just the logical path to follow. However SMN as it is now, its completely garbage and I will never ever touch it again until they do something about it. -
07-31-2019, 12:37 AMGoji1639
It's basically just a leveling skill, and a necessary one since we're forced to face-tank everything while leveling as a caster.
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08-01-2019, 12:45 AMRauderi
With the way things stand right now, SMN sustain is terrible, and Titan isn't helping. 20% of a caster's HP is insufficient protection and hardly worth any dps loss. And even in cases where a conditional Oh Shi- Button is needed, waiting 3 seconds for the Egi to come out nulls the idea entirely. Then the actual action has to take place, where it's likely delayed/lost in the queue. Even if Titan is already out, that tiny barrier takes one of our valuable 30-sec charges and doesn't even pay us back with Ruin IV.
We get no CC, either, so we have to face-tank everything we touch.
Regarding Physick and SMN healing in general, the decisions are utterly baffling. Keep Physick but make it worthless. Add in a new Egi that pops a heal over time ...that is also nearly worthless. If they didn't want SMN to do some kind of healing, why have Physick and Everlasting Flight? I'm not expecting SCH numbers here, probably much closer to half that or somewhat close to RDM's Vercure, but certainly not 700HP. I'll have to run some checks or see what others have for comps, but I can at least accept Everlasting Flight if it's reasonably close to SCH's fairy regen. -
08-01-2019, 03:28 AMHasrat
Eh, I'mma kinda disagree on your 20% complaint. You get two charges, with a 30 second recast/recharge time. I know I've read some players pointing out that BLM's 30% Manaward is rather significant, and that's on a 120s cooldown. By comparison, SMN seems like it oughtta be pretty decent.
In theory, anyway. Not really something I put to use. Rather just be doing the deeps.