SCH or AST?

I'm thinking about lvling a healer to 80 but i'm not really interested in WHM. Neither am I interested in high end raiding as a healer.

I already have some knowledge about SCH since I played it a bit in dungeons in SB (had it lvled coz of SMN & wanted a bit faster queues.)
But i've heard some bad things about both. So was wondering what the problems are with both of these healers?
Are they just underperforming? Is it the lack of "DPS"? or is it more their playstyles being overhauled & disliked?

Trying to make up my mind on which one I want to lvl in the end.

SCH is doing great right now. People are just mad because the DPS kit got gutted and equalized with the other healers.

AST is a bit weak right now, but will probably get buffed in the future

SCH has higher healing potency than AST so they are less frustrating. If you can deal with how the new Aetherflow works, pick SCH.

Sch is the greatest dungeon healer of all time. In leveling dungeons, if you know what you're doing, you don't have to hard cast a single GCD heal. Its aoe is instant cast so you can still direct your fairy and aetherflow heal while doing dungeons and your damage reduction heals over time now to help you continue to dps big pulls.

Astro on the other hand feels better when doing trials/raids over dungeons. Their cards keep them busy and their OGCD's are plentiful so we're always doing something during all of our malefic casts. But not being able to OGCD weave during gravity spam (outside of light speed) makes sch feel a lot better during dungeons. Astro's new 80 ability also feels like it only really shines if things are going terrible or your other healer is dead, since utilizing it requires hard casting heals which everyone is trying to avoid as much as possible. Though it does just more use in Eden right now. Ast is still a good job but its ease of use and the way it feels is a little rougher than scholar. Sch flows really well and doesn't struggle with much at all, Ast just has a couple hiccups

You are better off going with SCH. AST will be a pain to level due to weak potencies, weak dps, and butchered buffs. If you want to actually participate in EX Trials or Savage Raids but do not want to be WHM then SCH is the only option at current. As AST is unwanted due to being a deficit.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

You are better off going with SCH. AST will be a pain to level due to weak potencies, weak dps, and butchered buffs. If you want to actually participate in EX Trials or Savage Raids but do not want to be WHM then SCH is the only option at current. As AST is unwanted due to being a deficit.

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This is an extreme exaggeration. Not once have I seen or heard of any group that declined entry to an ast solely on the grounds that they're playing ast. It's much more the case that players don't want to play ast, not that groups don't want an ast.

The majority of outrage with ast is about the dumbing down of cards which makes the class less fun and basic and strips away the lore which some people care about. People invest their time for more than just mechanics.

Between those two I will recommend SCH. Its more fun to play as it is now.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

You are better off going with SCH. AST will be a pain to level due to weak potencies, weak dps, and butchered buffs. If you want to actually participate in EX Trials or Savage Raids but do not want to be WHM then SCH is the only option at current. As AST is unwanted due to being a deficit.

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AST has no problem keeping the party alive. I've had no issues in roulettes or trials. Even cleared Innocences EX on NOCT AST pretty much solo healing, since my co healer was a glare mage.
Do you have to work harder? Sure! But it's manageable and can clear all current content.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

AST is unwanted due to being a deficit.

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Typical meta situation, even if it have certain drawback doesn't mean its inadequate.

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Originally Posted by Lagomorph

This is an extreme exaggeration. Not once have I seen or heard of any group that declined entry to an ast solely on the grounds that they're playing ast. It's much more the case that players don't want to play ast, not that groups don't want an ast.

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I truly wish this was true but i have seen multiple groups exclude but allow double whm/sch though these ain't common because ast can reasonably clear all content, but it does happen unfortunately.

To OP best go with sch for now you basically get a 2 for 1 with smn being leveled with it so you can switch when you might feel bored etc, i personally prefer ast but it does have a few problems right now nothing unplayable but you will have to work harder for a similar result as playing sch.

SCH is just better atm

To be fair, I would wager that most EX trials or raids at this current moment would prefer the AST to pad their parses, rather than n SCH who provides less DPS to them individually.

I like them all
SCHs fun
AST is fun and WHM has been my main since I first started playing.

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Originally Posted by IchiExorz

I'm thinking about lvling a healer to 80 but i'm not really interested in WHM. Neither am I interested in high end raiding as a healer.

I already have some knowledge about SCH since I played it a bit in dungeons in SB (had it lvled coz of SMN & wanted a bit faster queues.)
But i've heard some bad things about both. So was wondering what the problems are with both of these healers?
Are they just underperforming? Is it the lack of "DPS"? or is it more their playstyles being overhauled & disliked?

Trying to make up my mind on which one I want to lvl in the end.

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SCH's healing is fine, they just lost other skills so are often left feeling a bit bored with little to do outside of spamming 1-2 dps skills. AST is a bit underperforming, but on the upside at least you're not bored - between healing and extra card skills, you'll certainly be busy. So take your pick.

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Originally Posted by FlareR

my co healer was a glare mage.

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This is an awesome term. I'm going to have to remember this one!

I’d probably recommend waiting until next week, given that’s there’s a reasonably good chance for a balancing pass with the release of savage. This may improve some things like AST’s weaker potencies.

People are bad mouthing SCH right now because it's dps got equalized with other healers. However, SCH is basically the golden child of healers in FFXIV. You cannot go wrong with it ever.

honestly anything but AST. Its just not as fun as it was and especially in 8 man stuff youre going to feel how much weaker your heals are and how unsatisfying your buffs are

I don't really care about it being undertuned much. I don't plan to do difficult things as a healer.
I was more wondering why people are angry about the healers.
Sounds more like the issues are about balance and not much about their playstyles or being boring to play or anything.

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Originally Posted by FlareR

AST has no problem keeping the party alive. I've had no issues in roulettes or trials. Even cleared Innocences EX on NOCT AST pretty much solo healing, since my co healer was a glare mage.
Do you have to work harder? Sure! But it's manageable and can clear all current content.

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Yup.

OP, I might be biased, but I'd say AST. :D

My advice would be just wait till next Tuesday, because then we will get the final changes to the jobs (those will last for a while then). Its almost certain that AST will get plenty of buffs/changes by then.

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

My advice would be just wait till next Tuesday, because then we will get the final changes to the jobs (those will last for a while then). Its almost certain that AST will get plenty of buffs/changes by then.

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Yeah i'd prob wait till i finish lvling my MCH. (in about a week i suppose.)
Still not decided which one i'll lvl yet.

I like the whole astrology theme & animations of AST but i love the combos you can do with SCH & Seraph looks cool.

OP, I wanna revise my advice. You should be SCH instead. Their healing potency is more awesome and fairy's embrace helps a lot. ;)

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Originally Posted by Averax

AST is a bit weak right now, but will probably get buffed in the future

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Celestial Opposition being a 120s recast for a weaker but instant Aspected Helios is a joke. Potency aside, Swiftcast+AH accomplishes the same thing but the regen is better .. Its only advantage is no MP cost.
Collective Unconscious suffers similarly, being identical to Sacred Soil but for a weaker regen and a 3 second longer duration for three times the recast. AND it has the downside of not being allowed to move or act without losing the damage mitigation.
Neutral Sect is absolutely phenomenal to use though. And its not the increased Healing power but the combined Sect Effects that makes AST feel complete and powerful while its active.

All I want from any AST changes is to roll Nocturnal and Diurnal Sects into one base trait effect.
Aspected Helios/Benefic could then apply a Regen as it does now, but every time the Regen ticked, it also added a 200 Potency Shield. Essentially, a self refreshing shield that triggers off the Regen heal amount.
Neutral Sect could then take a page out of Emergency Tactics book and cause Aspected spells to stack the Potency of the full duration Shield+Regen into big bomb heals for the duration. Or even 50% of the total potency would work.

Turn AST into a Healer that utilizes Shields and Regens at the same time instead of choosing one over the other.


Diurnal Sects biggest problem is that it copies Regen/Medica II without giving us analogues to the powerful tools a WHM has to back up those 2 spells.
Nocturnal Sects biggest problem is that it copies Adloq/Succor, But again we have no analogues to the additional healing provided not just by the powerful AF abilities, but also the surprisingly effective Fairy Healing.
So both Sects end up being inferior versions of the jobs they're borrowing from. Raw potency buffs would be a band-aid to the gaping wound that is the lack of tools built around those 2 key spells that we borrow from other jobs.

I play all 3 Healers at 80 with AST having been my first through the MSQ. Levelling up, I never felt weak in dungeons or trials. The problem is that once I also levelled WHM and SCH, the glaring power disparities in their respective healing kits compared to AST made me feel like AST is weaker and needs to work harder to achieve similar results to a SCH and WHM.
Cards are the one thing I presently love about AST and the reason why I keep playing it in EXDR, but for Eden... SCH or WHM for DF because they just have better tools.

I am curious. I'm seeing a lot of "SCH is fun" in this thread. I'm one who has been pretty vocal about disliking the changes made to SCH and I've not actually levelled it to 80 and with my enjoying AST on my alt more at 70 than I am SCH at 70 (I am hating SCH at 70). I am in a similar dilemma to the OP. So those who are enjoying Scholar, what about it at level 80 is making it fun? Why is it enjoyable for you? Not a leading question for a Scholar rant, I've swapped to the character I have tied to my forum account (my 80 is on a different character) and am weighing my options on what to take through Shadowbringers on it. I feel obliged to give Scholar a chance and I want to enjoy it because I had done so for years as my main.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I am curious. I'm seeing a lot of "SCH is fun" in this thread. I'm one who has been pretty vocal about disliking the changes made to SCH and I've not actually levelled it to 80 and with my enjoying AST on my alt more at 70 than I am SCH at 70 (I am hating SCH at 70). I am in a similar dilemma to the OP. So those who are enjoying Scholar, what about it at level 80 is making it fun? Why is it enjoyable for you? Not a leading question for a Scholar rant, I've swapped to the character I have tied to my forum account (my 80 is on a different character) and am weighing my options on what to take through Shadowbringers on it. I feel obliged to give Scholar a chance and I want to enjoy it because I had done so for years as my main.

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I've already explained myself in other posts. But for me I love the new scholar because to me, it feels fundamentally the same, just fewer buttons. I agree there are things that need to be tweaked and that having one or two of our old skills back wouldn't hurt. But it really doesn't feel all that different to me. It's not perfect but it does not feel anywhere as bad to me as alot of people seem to make it out to be.

I'll go off on a tangent myself and say that I like how ast feels currently, my issue with it is how weak divination feels for the work you have to do to optimize it and how weak their healing feels in comparison. Mechanically I like what they have now but number wise it feels to weak.

Feeling fundamentally the same is what I was worried about. My boredom with Scholar started in Stormblood. My favourite iteration of Scholar was 2.0 and I loved it. It was still fun in HW. In Stormblood I still enjoyed being able to weave in and out of healing & DPS with it, but healing on its own, not so interesting. I'd love an evolution of 2.0 SCH, but it has gone in a different direction to what I got out of it. With the new shields from Seraph, I was hoping more shields might shift the emphasis in ShB healer.

But your comments on AST, that falls in line with my impression too. The cards are still enjoyable, I like them too, in terms of how they feel to play as part of being an AST, but potencies and how they actually benefit the party are on the weak side. So I might find AST more engaging these days, even if it's behind the other healers, but I feel the others heal too well anyway. Though buffs to divination would be nice as a reward for the work you put in, as you say. And in addition to other tweaks & QoL needed.