Old topic of male Viera.

Before I start - haters gonna hate, so go on, spill your rage, but please, remain civilized. I'm not for musculinity or fems, or any other groups out there. I just want the game I love so much to be as free in my choices as it possible. And I want to play some rioter male Viera, who go out of the woods for adventuring - please let me play it. I would most apreciate that.
Can someone explain me how is it lorewise that male Viera doesn't even show themselves even in the First (Rak'tika village) where there is NO PLACE for them to hide since there is not much of land remains after the Flood? And why we were banned for playing as male Viera? I was playing lalafell since start and the male Viera is the one race I was ready to change myself and it still remains stupid for me to gender lock the race like this in THIS game (male Miqo'te, female Roegardyn, uh huh...). And more than that gender locking the Hrothgar is even MORE ridiculous since the nature itself - if one male can make a lot of babies for a lot of women to sustain the race, ONE WOMAN can not produce enough of kids to sustain the race! And, even if hrothgar are not so missnumbered in gender, there is again a question - where are they?? Especialy where they are in the First??? I'm not complaining about the game or scenario, by any means the expansion and stoory are above the stars for me, but maybe we can consider to remove a gender lock because it's not LOGICALY supported by what I see?

we do already have a big thread on male Viera if you want to go in have discussion there
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...w-your-support


and heres the female Hrothgar one
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...our-support%21

Oh, I will, thanks. But the main idea of this tread is how lore could explain the lack of male/female representatives in the First, where's no place to hide them.

We don't see all of the Rak'tika Greatwood, and in a sideqest the female Viera say that the males live hidden in a village deeper in the woods.

That's your explanation.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

We don't see all of the Rak'tika Greatwood, and in a sideqest the female Viera say that the males live hidden in a village deeper in the woods.

That's your explanation.

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Thank you, but just imagine what it must look like if the village in Rak'tika contains 8 of 10 parts of the Viera society (lore based 8 of 10 Viera are females) and how small that village should be to keep themselves protected from the forest full of dangers, poison and sin eaters? I could understand before the Flood. But i can't imagine 5-10 males surviving that post Flood. makes no sense. And, yes, I've too done this quest.

Even after the flood, Norvrandt is still a whole continent vaguely Europe sized and the greatwood takes up a lot of that space. Not sure where you’re getting “no place to hide” out of that. I’m sure a lot of watchers have been killed by eaters but considering male viera/viis live 3+ centuries on their own in the woods, I’m sure they’re pretty good at living.

As for why you can’t play them, Yoshi-P already explained that in a Letter from the Producer. As for why you don’t see ronso women, they just never made models of them. Same reason why in 1.0 we heard about femroes and there was no lore reason why they shouldn’t be around, but we didn’t see a single one until Merylwyb was introduced post-Yoshi-P.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Even after the flood, Norvrandt is still a whole continent vaguely Europe sized and the greatwood takes up a lot of that space. Not sure where you’re getting “no place to hide” out of that. I’m sure a lot of watchers have been killed by eaters but considering male viera/viis live 3+ centuries on their own in the woods, I’m sure they’re pretty good at living.

As for why you can’t play them, Yoshi-P already explained that in a Letter from the Producer. As for why you don’t see ronso women, they just never made models of them. Same reason why in 1.0 we heard about femroes and there was no lore reason why they shouldn’t be around, but we didn’t see a single one until Merylwyb was introduced post-Yoshi-P.

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Can I have any link for the letter you are refering to?
And BTW it's still makes no sence after Flood to hide and expose your males to the danger when there is so little of the race left anyway. In my opinion in the times like that female Viera should've guard their males and make them housevifes (sorta, lol) instead of letting them go in the ONE place in the DANGEROUS forest crowded with sin eaters, that can LITERALLY destroy any means of the race to reproduce in one misfortunate event. More than that - if I were even a little thinking sin eater (which the high ranked are definintely are) I would seek this exact village to take down every male and thus destroying my enemy for good.

In one of the sidequests, you actually indirectly encounter a "Watcher", implied to be a male Viis. You find the slain corpse of a monster you're hunting, perforated with arrows. When you return to the village, a Watcher is theorized to have done the deed.

Much like males on the First, male Viis leave their village and live isolated lives, it seems. How they learned that you were "allies of the Ronkans" if they remain isolated is unclear... I suppose they were watching!

As for there being "not enough space" bear in mind that this is a MMO, and the scale for everything is very hard to judge, in order to prevent enjoyment from being impacted by having to walk miles to get anywhere. The Greatwood is far, FAR larger than what we see. There's likely much more than a two minute walk between the various villages. There's probably more villages than what we see, or the ones we do are far, far larger, with hundreds of residents, rather than less than twenty.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

In one of the sidequests, you actually indirectly encounter a "Watcher", implied to be a male Viis. You find the slain corpse of a monster you're hunting, perforated with arrows. When you return to the village, a Watcher is theorized to have done the deed.

Much like males on the First, male Viis leave their village and live isolated lives, it seems. How they learned that you were "allies of the Ronkans" if they remain isolated is unclear... I suppose they were watching!

As for there being "not enough space" bear in mind that this is a MMO, and the scale for everything is very hard to judge, in order to prevent enjoyment from being impacted by having to walk miles to get anywhere. The Greatwood is far, FAR larger than what we see. There's likely much more than a two minute walk between the various villages. There's probably more villages than what we see, or the ones we do are far, far larger, with hundreds of residents, rather than less than twenty.

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Great answer, I do understand that the world is bigger, but you must understand that there is much more of the sin eaters and other dangers to expose your ONLY and limited males to them. I know the lore and i do understand that one male Viera is like the damn Rambo out there in the woods, but even they must understand they are limited now, after the Flood, than ever before. It's only logical for them to be much more open and VISIBLE in the vilages, and much less exposed to danger.
Anyway it's my thoughts, and, most probably, I just want them to give us male Viera too much. It just feels wrong to not having gender choice in the 2019. I know and understand the problems with development of the new races and gender, so I DON'T DEMAND them right now, just hoping they will add them in around 6.0...

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

Great answer, I do understand that the world is bigger, but you must understand that there is much more of the sin eaters and other dangers to expose your ONLY and limited males to them. I know the lore and i do understand that one male Viera is like the damn Rambo out there in the woods, but even they must understand they are limited now, after the Flood, than ever before. It's only logical for them to be much more open and VISIBLE in the vilages, and much less exposed to danger.
Anyway it's my thoughts, and, most probably, I just want them to give us male Viera too much. It just feels wrong to not having gender choice in the 2019. I know and understand the problems with development of the new races and gender, so I DON'T DEMAND them right now, just hoping they will add them in around 6.0...

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The Watchers are stated to be among the absolute fiercest guerrilla warriors in either world. Them having villages stationed closer to the Empty, where eaters are more likely to approach from, while the females keep watch over the Ronkan ruins and western approach to the Greatwood, makes sense.

It's not for lore reasons that we can't play as male viera/female hrothgar. It's because they had requests for viera, and requests for a beast race, but only the workflow budget to do one more new race for the foreseeable future, so they split the difference and did both with one gender. Whether we get the missing genders is not a matter of being lore friendly. Otherwise we wouldn't have male miqo'te who are in a similar position. It's a matter of dev team resources.

This is the 600th thread we have made on this topic, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

I know this is on Male vieras and the answer is that most still live in Raktika deep in the woods but female Hrothgars. I the lore for the source is that the Hrothgars are a matriarchal society with a queen and presumably females due to being few in numbers and the heads of society are kept safe with the males doing most of the work/adventuring. However on the first we see any Hrothgars and even during the MSQ we deal with a Hrothgar who's wife, presumably a Hrothgar, is dead so we know they exist and live average lives even as workers since his wife was a miner but where are they? Granted I know we don't see them because they have no model but lore wise where are they?

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Originally Posted by AvenoMatt

I know this is on Male vieras and the answer is that most still live in Raktika deep in the woods but female Hrothgars. I the lore for the source is that the Hrothgars are a matriarchal society with a queen and presumably females due to being few in numbers and the heads of society are kept safe with the males doing most of the work/adventuring. However on the first we see any Hrothgars and even during the MSQ we deal with a Hrothgar who's wife, presumably a Hrothgar, is dead so we know they exist and live average lives even as workers since his wife was a miner but where are they? Granted I know we don't see them because they have no model but lore wise where are they?

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There but invisible, just like all the male Miquo'te, female Roe, Auri, Viera, and Hrothgar adventurers prior to their additions.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

Can I have any link for the letter you are refering to?

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Sorry that I also don't have the link, but I can tell you why they weren't made: time restraints.

In the LIVE Letter and interviews Yoshi explained they barely had (and will have going forward into the future) the room in their development schedules to make two new player body models. They knew they had to implement Viera as the demand for it was already huge, but they also had the demand for a more beastlike race. Only being able to make two body models AND wanting to meet both demands they decided to make a female Viera body and male Hrothgar (Ronso) body. Yoshi also mentioned this is not simply a problem throwing more money at would solve. Adding more body models adds a permanent workload on top of the very tight schedule they already have, as they seemingly need to manually check every piece of armor they have and make on all body models, making sure they fit well. Also when adding body models they need to add unique emotes to it, like every race/gender combination has it's own unique /wave, /dance, etc. etc.

However! He has explicitly stated he's not saying 'no' to male Viera and female Ro.. Hrothgar. What he is saying though is that if they are to ever add them (which won't be soon at all!) they would only be able to do so if they found a way to cut down efficiently onto the current permanent development workload that all current in-game bodymodels have. So he's not saying he's opposed to having the missing genders in the game, just that as things are right now it isn't possible.

That being said though. The devteam has surprised us time and time again with their passion and dedication for this game, working themselves to the bone to deliver on the demands of the audience. The current male Viera thread is like 860+ pages long, you can be damn sure that the team is very actively looking into adding the missing genders somehow, doing everything they can to somehow make it work. And if they truly can't deliver they always have a good (though perhaps still not satisfactory) answer, giving us the reason they are unable to deliver. Hope that answer your question a bit :)

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

Can I have any link for the letter you are refering to?
And BTW it's still makes no sence after Flood to hide and expose your males to the danger when there is so little of the race left anyway. In my opinion in the times like that female Viera should've guard their males and make them housevifes (sorta, lol) instead of letting them go in the ONE place in the DANGEROUS forest crowded with sin eaters, that can LITERALLY destroy any means of the race to reproduce in one misfortunate event. More than that - if I were even a little thinking sin eater (which the high ranked are definintely are) I would seek this exact village to take down every male and thus destroying my enemy for good.

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The Letters from the Producer are also hosted here on the Official Forums; here is the relevant letter, which addresses the controversies surrounding the jobs and races chosen to add for Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

Can I have any link for the letter you are refering to?
And BTW it's still makes no sence after Flood to hide and expose your males to the danger when there is so little of the race left anyway. In my opinion in the times like that female Viera should've guard their males and make them housevifes (sorta, lol) instead of letting them go in the ONE place in the DANGEROUS forest crowded with sin eaters, that can LITERALLY destroy any means of the race to reproduce in one misfortunate event. More than that - if I were even a little thinking sin eater (which the high ranked are definintely are) I would seek this exact village to take down every male and thus destroying my enemy for good.

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I just wanted to comment on this by saying: The lore doesnt have to make sense in a "logical" or carefully planned way. Thats not how societies and specially traditions work. If the Viis (and the Viera) have lived like this for thousands of years they're not gonna suddenly change their fundamental way of living because it "makes no sense (anymore)". Considering how long they live we can also assume that at least part of the living population was born and raised before the flood of light (or the Garlean Invasion on the Source) and they'd be even more kean on keeping the old ways of living.
Traditions arent always based on what makes sense right now but more on what made sense at the time. I'm trying to think of any good real world examples, but I cant come up with any that dont have the potential to just blow up with politic or religion. So let me try one that isnt 100% fitting but less... explosive: I watched a japanese documentary a while ago and a sushi chef explained the way he was cutting a type of eel. The way he cut it was from the eels back not the belly, which is a bad and difficult way to cut this fish. The reason? He was honoring samurai tradition, specially Seppuku. It made no sense for him to cut the eel this way, except for an old tradition. Again, not the best example probably since its less severe than risking a whole population to vanish, but I hope it brings accross the point I'm trying to make: Traditions dont have to make sense and they arent as quick to change.

...and even if they were, lets think about this for a second: What would happen if the male Viis just returned to the village for good? They lived as lone wolves for decades so they're probably not a very social lot. We would have the new problem of suddenly having a bunch of warriors who are used to being alone and always ready to strike to protect the forest being turned into housewives (by your suggetions) - how is that gonna work?

It might not be not "logical" that they male Viis are still staying outside of the village and are hidden in the forest, but its "natural" and a believeable lore as far as I'm concerned. Way more believable than suddenly turning them into housewives because their old ways dont make sense anymore and the society was changed over night.

...even though the real reasons are obviously that they probably wanted to stay close to the Viera-lore from Ivalice aswell as not having the time and ressources to model/design male Viera. But even if they had: If they wanted to keep true to the Ivalice-lore, the male bunnies are out in the forest. And societies dont always do what would be best for them or whats the most sensible way - sometimes they stick to traditions because "thats how its always been!" even if thats harmful. The Viera/Viis are pretty realistic in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Valenth

Sorry that I also don't have the link, but I can tell you why they weren't made: time restraints.

In the LIVE Letter and interviews Yoshi explained they barely had (and will have going forward into the future) the room in their development schedules to make two new player body models. They knew they had to implement Viera as the demand for it was already huge, but they also had the demand for a more beastlike race. Only being able to make two body models AND wanting to meet both demands they decided to make a female Viera body and male Hrothgar (Ronso) body. Yoshi also mentioned this is not simply a problem throwing more money at would solve. Adding more body models adds a permanent workload on top of the very tight schedule they already have, as they seemingly need to manually check every piece of armor they have and make on all body models, making sure they fit well. Also when adding body models they need to add unique emotes to it, like every race/gender combination has it's own unique /wave, /dance, etc. etc.

However! He has explicitly stated he's not saying 'no' to male Viera and female Ro.. Hrothgar. What he is saying though is that if they are to ever add them (which won't be soon at all!) they would only be able to do so if they found a way to cut down efficiently onto the current permanent development workload that all current in-game bodymodels have. So he's not saying he's opposed to having the missing genders in the game, just that as things are right now it isn't possible.

That being said though. The devteam has surprised us time and time again with their passion and dedication for this game, working themselves to the bone to deliver on the demands of the audience. The current male Viera thread is like 860+ pages long, you can be damn sure that the team is very actively looking into adding the missing genders somehow, doing everything they can to somehow make it work. And if they truly can't deliver they always have a good (though perhaps still not satisfactory) answer, giving us the reason they are unable to deliver. Hope that answer your question a bit :)

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indeed, there is a chance we might see them, but I'd say dont expect at 5.x, 6.0 is the most likely time imo, btw, if u wanna get some awnsers like the question on the first page of the live letter thread by grinkaboy about the issign genders (we are at more than 100 likes! :D) and by showing more and more support we can make it easier for SE to see its worth to add enough resources to egt them done as fast as its possible and make the devs have an easier time deciding between yes and no

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Originally Posted by Vidu

long story short

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You have a point, ok. Traditions are slow to change. Still I think it would be better from the lore point of viev in the 1st to make male Viis at least have a base NEAR the main settlement. It's 100+ years of fight with eaters. It's a lot of time to change some traditions in order to survive.

By lore, not only should the viera race onyl equate to about 2-1% of the player population, but female roegadyns shouldtn exist, same for male miqote, and au ra shouldnt be able to enter ishgard, only 1 WHM per server, only 0.5% of the players (if not less) can be summonerss, only about 5% can be female miqote, no crossover events, no scions outfits, etc etc etc etc etc

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Originally Posted by zeylos

By lore, not only should the viera race onyl equate to about 2-1% of the player population, but female roegadyns shouldtn exist, same for male miqote, and au ra shouldnt be able to enter ishgard, only 1 WHM per server, only 0.5% of the players (if not less) can be summonerss, only about 5% can be female miqote, no crossover events, no scions outfits, etc etc etc etc etc

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Someone did the math... Geez.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

By lore, not only should the viera race onyl equate to about 2-1% of the player population, but female roegadyns shouldtn exist, same for male miqote, and au ra shouldnt be able to enter ishgard, only 1 WHM per server, only 0.5% of the players (if not less) can be summonerss, only about 5% can be female miqote, no crossover events, no scions outfits, etc etc etc etc etc

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Where are you getting all this from? Where does it ever say female roegadyns shouldn’t exist? Though his family was killed by them, there still is an actual au ra NPC in Ishgard and no one is kicking him out (DRK quest stuff excluded). There is a whole corps in the Ul’dah military who are summoners. According to the lorebook, 20% of the population of Limsa Lominsa are miqo’te, along with 10% of Gridania, though not enough to show up as a whole percent in Ul’dah (people think that for some reason miqo’te only come from the teeny tiny population who still live in tribes?).

I’m not sure if you actually believe all that or if you’re trying to say “lore doesn’t matter” with hyperbolic or straight up wrong examples to support why we should have male viera. Most people baring a few are OK with them being added. The discussion is mostly about showing in the lore why they’re not here right now.

An exception can always be made for adventurers. We’re a group of random mercenaries from anywhere. That’s why I feel like male moon keeper miqos don’t break any lore running around since A. Roaming around is kind of their hat. And B. All adventurers are native to Eorzea (barring the new races) and parts of the land we adventure on and are from happens to be the moon keeper homeland too.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

Oh, I will, thanks. But the main idea of this tread is how lore could explain the lack of male/female representatives in the First, where's no place to hide them.

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Ultimately that's the wrong direction to be looking at it, because it's not originating as a lore decision. It's a game design decision that the lore writers have no control over, and just have to do their best to pick up the pieces and come up with yet another plausible reason why one gender of a race is so much more visible than the other - in two separate societies in two different realities.

For Viera/Viis, the answer seems to have been not coming up with two separate cultures...

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

There is a whole corps in the Ul’dah military who are summoners.

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I'm pretty sure that "whole corps" is the three summoners we met in the Lv60-70 quests.

I agree with the rest of what you wrote though - I'm not sure where Zeylos is pulling those stats from either, especially the "female Roegadyn and male Miqo'te shouldn't exist". Why and how? Their non-existence in 1.0 was the same programming-not-lore issue we have with Viera and Hrothgar now - apparently originating from the same logic for their counterpart races in FFXI, where (according to something I read a while ago) there was only space for four races, so Galka/Mithra were combined into "one race" for programming purposes.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I'm pretty sure that "whole corps" is the three summoners we met in the Lv60-70 quests.

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Ah dang. I was under the impression that there were more of them for some reason. It's been a hot minute since I did those quests.