Hello guys, I started to play FFXIV a few weeks ago. I was playing some alts as a CNJ on another server. Since the merge announcement I have been playing my main again which is a GLA 50. Since a week or so ago I grabbed PLD and am nearly completed with my Poisoned Hearts quest. The next step is to head into that Vale raid area... I want to do it but I am unsure how to tank these days... Last time I tanked, I was regularly pressing the block ability and spamming phalanx.I'm sure that's not the case anymore as many many things have changed since then. Dosn't help that I more or less soloed my GLA to 50 back in the day.
Any tips would be great and then maybe I will have a little more confidence in looking for a group to finish up my AF. Tips like on opening up pulls, tanking groups, working with off tanks, etc would be wonderful! Ive tried googling up stuff, browsing the forums, youtube, etc. specifically looking for tanking. I believe by asking here, I beleive one of you can answer my questions.
Thank you! ^^)b
GLA/PLD Tanking tips?
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03-15-2012, 08:48 AMDecconiGLA/PLD Tanking tips?
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03-15-2012, 10:01 AMXoo
Gladiator:
Invigorate >> Provoke >> Flash >> Second Wind >> War Drum >> Fast Blade>Flat Blade >> Cure >> Repeat.
Buffing Party for Ifrit/Events: Provoke >> Sentinel >> Rampart >> Sacred Prism (CON) >> Cure >> (then just follow up with the above).
Paladin is pretty much the same, but it lacks access to Invigorate. -
03-15-2012, 10:09 AMREDace0In the second sequence, shouldn't you throw up Sentinel before the rest so that the subsequent actions generate more emnity?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
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03-15-2012, 10:55 AMGreyJorildyn
Paladin has Sacred Prism, but it does not have Invigorate.
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03-15-2012, 10:57 AMXoo
Edited, thanks.
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03-15-2012, 11:33 AMDecconi
thanks for the replies. :D anything is a great help!
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03-16-2012, 04:57 PMChiefCurrahee
I find Holy Succor is a great hate tool when playing PLD. base heal @ lv 50 is around 900+ like the tool tip says if you cast it on some else you get 50% of the heal back to you, so at least 450.
My rotations is usually something like this:
outmaneuver > sentinel > Provoke > flash > Holy Succor > Cure > Rampart > Aegis Boon > War Drum.
Fast blade > Flat blade (until provoke or flash is up)
heal as needed between cooldowns.
Remeber Rampart gives you Bonus enmity only from people who are a mobs hate list that are covered in your AOE.
If you use rampart on your party but no one has touched a mob you get no Bonus enmity. If only 2 of 8 people attacked a mob and you used rampart but that AOE didn't cover those two people you get no bonus enmity. -
03-16-2012, 08:09 PMYukiKoneko
How do you deal with situations against NM bosses where positioning has to be factored in? I found myself hesitating to use WSs in case the boss readies an attack where if I don't move, I die. Right now, I try to at least stick voke and flash as often as possible, but given the quirkiness of rampart (and the fact that your party is generally far away from bosses) I save that, and sentinal for my own damage mitigation. I like your rotation for straight tanking where I can stand there and take the hits without worrying about needing to dodge.
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03-16-2012, 11:08 PMRagz
For GLA, one of the most potent way is to Sanguine Rite and Cure/SS bomb yourself.
-- Never run out of MP on NM
-- Great survivability, I tanked Ifrit without any heal doing this
-- Would never lose hate
Obviously this does not work for PLD, but GLA currently is a better tank over all. -
03-16-2012, 11:12 PMsyntaxlies
the best tip i can give you is to set you action bar up for optimal use. Group up you heals, vokes, layout your combos together in the order you use them. This goes for any class/job. A sloppy action bar will equal sloppy play.
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03-18-2012, 11:59 AMDecconi
Thanks for your guys tips. I'm a veteran tank from other MMOs. Was just uncertain to see what kind of rotation most people use and how people pull with the random links and such. Also, sometimes the threat doesn't make sense. I think with some practice I can understand the system more. One of the first things I did was what Syntaxlies mentioned. Thats for any game as well. Even moved my UI around for easy use.
One problem I do have is targeting. I for the life of me can't seem to target mobs very well. Especially in a a heavily populated area such as a beastman camp. Keep the tips coming if you have any! You guys are awesome! -
03-18-2012, 12:07 PMPeptaru
Random links aren't really random, the link and number of links is based on the pullers level and the party members' levels as well as how close the mobs are in relation to each other and how far apart the puller is from the rest of the members, i could explain it but once you know to watch for things like that its simple to predict how many mobs and, more precisely, which mobs will link when you aggro/pull a particular one.
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03-20-2012, 01:33 PMPhobos
Best tip for GLA/PLD tanking:
Sanguine Rite or Hallowed Ground and raise the WAR so they can start tanking again. -
03-21-2012, 04:41 AMXooHah, this is absurd. Warrior is fine for tanking as long as the target is a single enemy. They have no reliable crowd control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phobos
Too many people are taking on the mindset that Warrior's circumstantial ability to tank certain mobs and do great damage at the same time equates the be all go-to for tanking. I even had a guy in a Cutter's Cry party say today, "Gladiator? You're wasting my time...". Sad.
I'll take a Gladiator/Paladin over WAR any day. Simply because it can do everything Warrior can with the exception of raw damage, and do it better. -
03-21-2012, 05:02 AMChioneQuote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
Alas, it just isn't so. PLD is terribly limited in what it can do, and doesn't even have the damage mitigation that it was touted as being a master of to make up for its limitations. Right now GLD is a better tank than the PLD job, if only due to the abilities it can access that give it more enmity and survivability. So if you want to tank, stick to the class until they fix PLD. Otherwise, expect a WAR to take your job.
I was so looking forward to playing PLD for primal fights and well, everything really. Even though I have MRD/WAR all geared up for tanking or DD situations, I'm sort of stubborn about tanking on it since I prefer GLD (and wish PLD was at least half as effective as GLD is.) In most cases this just makes the team pick another WAR to tank while I get delegated to another job.
And honestly, even as much as I like the sword user, I really can't blame em right now. :/ -
03-21-2012, 05:14 AMXooHow do you address what makes GLA/PLD stand out from Warrior? IE Flash and War Drum? You totally missed the actual point of my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chione
...And hello my sister-from-a-greener-mother! :P -
03-22-2012, 03:50 AMMadruk
Flash and Wardrum pale in comparison to one Steel Cyclone for hate. In fact it does more than both combined (on aoeing mobs of equivalent level).
Paladins need buffs, but more importantly, they need content that actually requires taking one. Right now there isn't. -
03-22-2012, 05:29 AMXooI'm sorry, but are we talking about the same game? Much of the content in this game revolves around multiple targets. You show me a Warrior who can tank multiple targets better than Gladiator and I'll drop my case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madruk
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03-22-2012, 05:38 AMTreachWalk into group of mobs, press vengeance, rampart, provoke biggest thing, press steel cyclone at 2000 tp or just chain it at 1000 tp. gg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
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03-22-2012, 05:41 AMZahak
For the Pld lovers who have yet to see it: PLD UPDATE
"To all the players who don the gear of the Gallant or just like to look at those who do, I have good news!
In patch 1.21a we will be making adjustments to paladins, mainly focusing on their actions and we will continue to adjust paladin and other jobs moving forward." -
03-22-2012, 05:42 AMMadrukI'm not sure we're talking about the same game either. A paladin can't even come to close to the aoe hate abilities a warrior has. One flare goes off and the paladin is sitting there as a sub-whm curing the blm's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
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03-22-2012, 05:58 AMXooSounds like more of a case of a fail BLM and a fail GLA/PLD. As well, Paladin has Cover for these situations. Warrior has nothing outside of Steel Cyclone (2000TP@30sec) versus Gladiator's instant Flash and conditional War Drum, among many other enmity tricks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madruk
Also, find me an EXP party pre-45 that has a Warrior for a tank and I'll show you a dead party.
I think this is much less about Warrior's ability to tank well under certain conditions as it is more about people loving to deal damage and tank at the same time. Gladiator and Paladin are still viable tanks, and you won't convince me otherwise. -
03-22-2012, 06:18 AMTreachSo why are you asking people to debate with you? That is like borderline trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
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03-22-2012, 06:50 AMXooWhat the..? People debate with me of their own free will. They have an opinion, and I have mine. This is how discussion works?Quote:
Originally Posted by Treach
Madruk and others are obviously not entertaining the notion, to any degree, that Gladiator and Paladin have their uses. At least I have acknowledged what Warrior is capable of doing in its own capacity. The fact that my points have been absolutely dismissed/unaddressed in favor of "WAR > PLD /thread" makes them much closer to a troll than I've yet to come.
Shall I link for you, as well, the Urban Dictionary's definition of a troll? -
03-22-2012, 06:55 AMXoo
More to the point, I am still able to do my job as tank while playing Gladiator and Paladin. This misguided Warrior favoritism got showed up at Ifrit a few days ago when one party member tried to laugh me out of the group, saying, "You can't tank on Gladiator lmao! We have 2 WAR's and 3 BLM's! You don't even have Ifrit's Sword! etc." It went down and without a hitch.
You folks keep your "WAR ONLY" mentality, and I'll have versatility in both. -
03-22-2012, 07:03 AMMadruk
Just keep playing paladin, you clearly enjoy it so who am I to say otherwise.
Ps: I leveled 4 jobs without a tank 1-50 just aoeing shit down. Our thm's usually just took the hits. But that's a whole other issue. -
03-22-2012, 07:21 AMXooFair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madruk
PS: If I read correctly, (http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...d=1332301&p=15), you completed your last DoW/DoM on 06/23/2011 - which was before 1.20 and the removal of incessant AoE melee spam. Which does explain a few things. -
03-22-2012, 07:52 AMIcecyleeI've been doing most of my EXPing in a party post 1.20, and more often than not we don't have a MRD or a GLA. For EXPing they aren't strictly needed, LNCs with Life Surge and PGLs can get by well enough, and a THM pulling one monster at a time can burn it into the ground before they're killed. Toss in a single CNJ and you're more than good to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
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03-22-2012, 08:29 AMXooJust wondering - what's the level range of your party and the level range of your target mobs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecylee
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03-22-2012, 08:52 AMIcecylee
The past two weeks we took about five different 30-33's, one 35 LNC and a 35 THM to a level 36~39 diremite camp, with the LNC and THM alternating between pulling, the LCN doing leg sweep to hit everything and grab emnity on everything that linked, then a PGLs and THM each taking one at a time while the others ganged up on the stuff around the lancer.
After that we took more or less the same group when we were 35-38 to go fight the 40~42ish sheep, and it worked about as well. CNJ had to pay a bit more attention though due to AoE sleep occasionally screwing up things, but it all in all worked out pretty well. -
03-22-2012, 11:48 AMChioneQuote:
Originally Posted by Xoo
Well here it is, today I have had to accept once and for all that Paladin is a total waste of inventory space until they fix it. Moogle Prime sealed it.
Its not that I am just saying this to argue with you. I -want- to tank on PLD, and I have. I've tanked the Princess fight in Cutter's Cry and I've gone farming solo crowds of uglies quite a bit on it. Pre-patch I would only tank Moogle on GLD so that I could have all the moogles on me. This I only seemed capable of doing with AoE Flash and stopping to proc a wardrum now and then. Today, I tanked it on war and I had no issues at all getting all the moogles with just Antagonize, voke, flash and the crazy war combo.
And it might just be me imagining things but I feel somehow a lot less flimsy on WAR than I do when I'm on PLD. Even with the same gear, it feels like I get hit a lot harder on PLD.
And then there's the abilities - All of the WAR abilities are useful to tanking. All of PLD's kinda seem to say that they are but in actuality they hurt the PLD's cause. Divine Veil for instance, gives enmity to the whm that casts cure on you, as it counts as -them- casting that regen effect that it gives, not you. Our "Cure" takes far too long to cast for the benefit it gives and is very likely to get interrupted. I'm sure these are all points that have been brought up in the PLD thread, though and I'm overjoyed that the job is back on the drawing board.
Anyway, I was holding out hope that PLD would still be better than WAR on moogle prime, since its all about keeping more than one mob on you and not the pt - even while being mobile. I'm not saying PLD can't still do that with a lot more effort. WAR just does it better now with half the work. :/
Edit: Sorry for the long post. PLD was quite a disappointment for me. :( -
03-22-2012, 12:05 PMRau
Use MRD/WAR.
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03-22-2012, 01:23 PMPeptaruFor now, until we see what changes are made warrior does take less than pld. It not only has the higher HP pool, but also higher defense. Pld JSE is awful in actual defensive stats save for the 180 def body. Its all aimed at enhancing abilities as opposed to dmg mitigation. I'm eagerly awaiting the revamps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chione
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03-22-2012, 02:15 PMXooNo worries. I'll still go on tanking with Gladiator even though I have MRD and WAR available. I like playing it, and it works for every scenario that I've used it for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chione
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03-24-2012, 12:54 AMPhobosThis is a major source of the problem. To properly tank on GLA/PLD you have to spam abilities and cure yourself. Now that you can't move while casting, coupled with the DD's getting better so more chances to lose hate you're running around constantly doing things. I've noticed from time to time I'm sitting at 3000 TP because I had to do so many other things before I could WS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chione
WAR though, it seems you mostly just have to play as a DD and as a side-effect you tank well.