Dancer: Improvisation really needs a rework!

We'd expect a level 80 skill to be a staple or a big exciting ability to use, but yet Improvisation is extremely underwhelming.

It's extremely situational. I've been playing just DNC ever since the expansion launched and could find just 1 moment where there's nothing going on for a long period of time (and yet people didn't stack for it)... If you use it otherwise, let's say, to get enough esprit for a TS burst, it's still bad because the esprit gain is so low if people are not together.

The only actual (and marginal) use for this ability that I can see, is after a big aoe, to help the healers to everyone off with the +10% increased healing. :( But hey, so much for a level 80 ability, right?

The only suggestions I can think right now is to add a damage component while the skill is being performed, so it could be worth to use outside of the (very rare) idling phases, or just fill the Esprit bar in a fixed, fast pace and allow Saber Dance to be cast while you're Improvising... Or heck, even rework the skill completely.

It honestly feels like the Meditation 60 ability SAM got or the GL one MNK got, except support centric as that's the DNC identity. I've been maining DNC since early access and agree finding moments to capitalize on the ability is difficult. It requires communication and coordination with your party to get the most out of it.

I'm fine with it being a capstone. DNC is a support DPS and you get Esprit and Saberdance just before it so I appreciate a hybrid support DPS skill, without inherently dealing dmg itself. If they buff it, I'd like a support buff personally. Maybe give it DR to everyone in it, making it more attractive to stand in, or reduce or nullify mp costs of allies in it. Actually the latter sounds downright op compared to maybe 10% DR.

Perhaps give it treatment similar to AST's Collective Unconscious. By this I mean whilst the DNC is using Improv everyone gets the benefits of both things as they do now, however if they move after using it then everyone that was in range gets to keep the 10% increased healing for whatever duration of time.

I find the animation of it a little underwhelming though. All that arm flaying just feels like you are RPing an inflatable arm waving tube man...

It's my only major gripe with DNC. A level 80 ability that we barely ever use.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Perhaps give it treatment similar to AST's Collective Unconscious. By this I mean whilst the DNC is using Improv everyone gets the benefits of both things as they do now, however if they move after using it then everyone that was in range gets to keep the 10% increased healing for whatever duration of time.

I find the animation of it a little underwhelming though. All that arm flaying just feels like you are RPing an inflatable arm waving tube man...

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That would be a meaningful change and I'd actually use the ability often then to help out healers.

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Originally Posted by Kemiko

It honestly feels like the Meditation 60 ability SAM got or the GL one MNK got, except support centric as that's the DNC identity. I've been maining DNC since early access and agree finding moments to capitalize on the ability is difficult. It requires communication and coordination with your party to get the most out of it.

I'm fine with it being a capstone. DNC is a support DPS and you get Esprit and Saberdance just before it so I appreciate a hybrid support DPS skill, without inherently dealing dmg itself. If they buff it, I'd like a support buff personally. Maybe give it DR to everyone in it, making it more attractive to stand in, or reduce or nullify mp costs of allies in it. Actually the latter sounds downright op compared to maybe 10% DR.

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Those are cool suggestions too! DR seems like a good thing. Maybe 10% DR together with the 10% healing. TBH any kind of buff at this point that would make the skill more useful would be a plus.

You can always use when the boss goes away

I don't actually have too much of a problem with Improvisation, but having it as our level 80 capstone ability feels pretty bad. Either give it some additional functionality or put it somewhere else and give us something good at 80. Heck, our level 74 slot is open, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Kurando

I find the animation of it a little underwhelming though. All that arm flaying just feels like you are RPing an inflatable arm waving tube man...

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I keep teasing a friend about it. All the other dance moves are nice and fluid, the 80 DNC quest specially...and then there's Improvisation, aka HUURRRRRR!!

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

You can always use when the boss goes away

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Which is fine for extremes but the raid has no downtime where it can be used. E1 you are locked in a stationary position, E2 & E4 have zero downtime, and E3 you have to dodge in the downtime so being stationary is not advised at all. Atm this skill is 100% useless in Eden raids woo o/

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Which is fine for extremes but the raid has no downtime where it can be used. E1 you are locked in a stationary position, E2 & E4 have zero downtime, and E3 you have to dodge in the downtime so being stationary is not advised at all. Atm this skill is 100% useless in Eden raids woo o/

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Yeah, exactly. It works for Primals well enough because they always have some sort of off-stage moment before the big attack. But normal mode Eden has no time for it, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the Savage mode will have none either. It's also not usable in most dungeons, pointless for Hunts and FATEs. Those bosses don't usually leave, there's no pauses to use it, and it has no benefit to popping it off for 1 second like Collective Unconscious either. It's a huge disappointment to have a capstone ability that's useful about 3% of the time.

I would enjoy Improvisation if it had these changes:
1) Allowed movement
2) Did some damage while it's up. Even if it's not that huge. Something to offset some of the DPS loss of using it during an encounter
3) To offset the above benefits (but also for fun), require Dance Steps through the whole "performance" to maintain the buff.
**4) I personally wouldn't care if they dropped the healing buff from it. I feel like the healers already have it covered with plenty to spare. Everyone gets overhealed in the stack 'n' soak times that we can use Improvisation anyway.

THAT would feel like a capstone ability to me. Something that's usable in any content AND feels like a culmination of the class's play and lore.

Make it a 25 second Ability cooldown, and upon use it grants you a random Proc effect you do not already have active.

I was thinking it might improve the ability’s usability if you could use En Avant. That way you still have some mobility for repositioning if the need arises, while still being limited by charges / the fight arena / boss placement etc.

That said, I don’t mind being stationary for the duration, but it does need something more to make it worth the sacrifice

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Make it a 25 second Ability cooldown, and upon use it grants you a random Proc effect you do not already have active.

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Another option is to make it a bit like RDM's Manfication. 2 minute CD, but it doubles your current Feathers and Esprit. Would be amazing for our burst window.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Which is fine for extremes but the raid has no downtime where it can be used. E1 you are locked in a stationary position, E2 & E4 have zero downtime, and E3 you have to dodge in the downtime so being stationary is not advised at all. Atm this skill is 100% useless in Eden raids woo o/

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I've actually gotten pretty lucky using it in E3, aside from people running away from me so I get jack shit for Esprit from it. It'd be fine if it just gave the full Esprit generation regardless of allies present.

im actually fine with impro can imagine its useful in savage or ex-primal solo healing but I would love to get a trait on 80 which makes blade dance an ogcd... that's all I would personally change on dnc if it would be on me - maybe some minor pot adjustments but not that much it feels absolut meta/overpowered.

weaving the esprit skill would be mega flow tho :3

Improvisation isn't bad for stack markers too. Especially in fights where you know there will be little to no downtime. I personally think it's a pretty great skill.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Which is fine for extremes but the raid has no downtime where it can be used. E1 you are locked in a stationary position, E2 & E4 have zero downtime, and E3 you have to dodge in the downtime so being stationary is not advised at all. Atm this skill is 100% useless in Eden raids woo o/

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You can use improvisation for a few ticks in E1 before the adds appear.
You can use improvisation in E3 after having dodged the first charge. There's plenty of time for a few ticks.

Technically you could even use it on fights with short downtimes for a tick or two. It has niche use on Innocence when the boss jumps away doing his dash attack, if the Steps are on cooldown it is a damage increase to get those 1-2 ticks of Esprit. There are plenty of similar, less than obvious niche uses for the skill.

OP: I think the skill is fine for a downtime filler. You're basically asking for a rework for the purpose the skill exists for at the moment.

At the very least change Improvisation's animation to that of the level 80 job quest dance that we perform in the cutscene. Since they did not see fit to make that dance into an emote as a quest reward. Then we would have a decent dance to look at during the ability.

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Originally Posted by ShaneDawn

You can use improvisation for a few ticks in E1 before the adds appear.
You can use improvisation in E3 after having dodged the first charge. There's plenty of time for a few ticks.

Technically you could even use it on fights with short downtimes for a tick or two. It has niche use on Innocence when the boss jumps away doing his dash attack, if the Steps are on cooldown it is a damage increase to get those 1-2 ticks of Esprit. There are plenty of similar, less than obvious niche uses for the skill.

OP: I think the skill is fine for a downtime filler. You're basically asking for a rework for the purpose the skill exists for at the moment.

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Unless you get at least 10 espirit throughout the fight with Improv it is not worthwhile to use, before adds in E1 is good if all members are stacked with you(df almost never), E3 as well would require entire party on you to get those quick ticks to get that 10 espirit minimum

I think they need to get rid of / stop making situational skills. If those situations never arise you never use the skill. I prefer skills that I can weave into my skills.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Unless you get at least 10 espirit throughout the fight with Improv it is not worthwhile to use, before adds in E1 is good if all members are stacked with you(df almost never), E3 as well would require entire party on you to get those quick ticks to get that 10 espirit minimum

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Did a random run of both to get palpable reference. The runs were done once in a completely random df environment, single runs without any cherry picking or whatever. Three video references below with listed esprit gain.

Run 1: E1 before the adds, Esprit 40 -> 76. Could Have easily gotten an extra tick, but I moved early. So effectively that would have gotten me 40+ esprit.
Run 2: E3, between the two dodges during the first maelstrom. I positioned myself pretty badly and the pattern could have been better, but still managed to get 20 -> 35 esprit.
Run 2: E3, between the two dodges during the second maelstrom. An unfortunate pattern, but still managed to get 30 -> 53 esprit.

In E1 in particular, people tend to stack in the middle before the proximity markers appear. There's plenty of time for Improvisation uptime. You don't want to improvisation during the aoes anyways, because you will be prepping Standard Step in advance to hit both adds as they appear. Getting at least 10 esprit isn't exactly difficult even with unorganised people running about. I would also like to point out, that even if the esprit gain will vary in an unorganised composition, using it for the potential gain is ultimately better than not using it at all when there is no opportunity cost to doing so.

Being a capstone skill is a bad argument at this point, most classes had/have useless capstone skills. That being said I think it should change to be a skill that can be used to generate feathers and espirit outside/inside of battle and at a quicker rate then it is now.

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Originally Posted by jlewiss

Being a capstone skill is a bad argument at this point, most classes had/have useless capstone skills. That being said I think it should change to be a skill that can be used to generate feathers and espirit outside/inside of battle and at a quicker rate then it is now.

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I honestly never really considered this game to have captstones.