I returned for 1.21 after stopping in September. Very impressed with the number of changes. But, I'm confused about the job system. I got a couple friends together and got the BLM quest done and unlocked the Black Mage job. But, I'm having a hard time seeing a point to it. It seems to me its basically a Thaumaturge with fewer options. The only BLM specific ability I got is Convert which doesn't seem all that great. My stats barely changed. I just lost the ability to slot Cure and Protect and stuff.
What's the benefit? Is there any reason to play as a lv31 Black Mage instead of a lv31 Thaumaturge? To me it looks like its just a name change that gives you fewer options. Is there more value to it when I level up?
Can someone explain what jobs do to me?
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03-15-2012, 12:26 AMPookyCan someone explain what jobs do to me?
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03-15-2012, 12:28 AMKirafey
You quest for your spells, after them you receive your AF quests, Last spell comes with Body piece.
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03-15-2012, 12:32 AMviion
You get more spells as you level up. You will also get unique armor which is is free and has unique benefits to specific skills.
That is it tho, 5 skills, 5 pieces of gear.
It is up to you if you think it is worthwhile, note though it has been balanced like so:
Class = Solo/Low-man content
Job = Party content -
03-15-2012, 12:34 AMSehro
jobs are designed for parties mostly,sleepga is very usefull for dungeon runs ..etc , there is also flare,freeze,burst.
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03-15-2012, 12:42 AMEvaddaragon
I'll have to say that while I was exping solo with my MRD, I had no reason whatsoever to use WAR instead.
Once I'll be in Cutter's Cry, Aurum Vale, or in any other content that's party based, I'll use WAR instead. Whatever abilities for survivability I lost will be more than compensated by WHM and/or BRD. That's the main idea behind the job system. It's not there to replace classes, it's there to give you more options.
But that doesn't mean you can't solo with a job, or party with classes. In fact, I've done some testing and can solo as well as a PLD than I do as a GLA, although I had to change my playstyle somewhat to adapt to a different skillset. Also, I see no point in using WHM if I'm only duoing with a friend, because I don't need to heal as much, whereas I don't think I'll ever use CNJ again in a party.
I also don't see myself using LNC again soon because I used it only in parties, and DRG blows it out the water as far pure DPS goes. But we never know, there might be content that will be suited better for it or not.
So yeah, jobs aren't pointless, but they're not meant to replace your class, either. Don't assume that you have to use the job for everything. -
03-15-2012, 12:42 AMHoly_DragoonPV has it bang on. If you are grinding away at leves and such by yourself on in duo groups, you'll likely see more benefit to sticking as a THM until you get higher. Being able to get MP back with Convert becomes very valuable when you are taking down bosses, or are fighting longer strings fights. Get a full party where everyone has Jobs, and the benefits show themselves much more clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
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03-15-2012, 12:43 AMPooky
I see, ok. Guess I thought they were gonna be more than they are. Oh well. AF armour is cool though, hope I can get that some day.
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03-15-2012, 12:44 AMsyntaxliesconvert is worth it aloneQuote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
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03-15-2012, 01:20 AMRydinPeople will hate me for this but no... there is no reason to play a 30-40 job (Bard and WHM)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
And thats in a party... solo... AFKing, on the login screen, sidequests... company quests
wait until the 40 quest
I stay away from blanket statements like "Jobs are for party, classes are for solo"Quote:
Originally Posted by Sehro
each job/class is a different case
bad Syntax... bad bad syntax.. no... no....Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxlies
Convert is NOT worth Conj, Lnc, War, GLA cross classed abilities
ESPECIALLY not if you have a bard with you -
03-15-2012, 01:21 AMMolly_MillionsSame, WAR is an absolute beast solo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
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03-15-2012, 01:24 AMRydinSo is DRG.... Definitely MNK... PLD is a better GLA in pretty much all aspects (People are complaining about a little less HP... but PLD abilities OWN... and one of the more useful 15 minute abilities)Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
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03-15-2012, 01:27 AMMolly_Millions
Personally, due to the lack of dps, I wouldn't use GLA or PLD solo.
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03-15-2012, 01:28 AMRydinThats not really the point...Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
Its not PLD/GLA vs other classes for solo...
but, you know, thanks for the input... I'll keep that in mind
The more relevant point is that PLD is no less equipped to deal with solo play than GLA is.... -
03-15-2012, 01:59 AMEvaddaragonI'll say as Rydin, plus I'll also add this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
I'd also prefer other jobs if I'm fighting one-on-one if I'm trying to kill faster. But if I just want to make sure I survive, I feel more at ease as PLD/GLA. As I tried getting to the WAR AF coffer yesterday, and ended up having 3-4 mobs on me for about 5 minutes, I was quite happy to be as sturdy as I was as PLD. I have Stoneskin, Holy Succor, Bloodbath, Goring Blade, Spirits Within among others to thank for that.
BTW Rydin, over there at the French forums, I have some people that are COMPLAINING about the PLD quarter-hour abilities. They say it doesn't last long enough for the recast. Better yet, one suggested to me that people were only complaining about PLD and not the other jobs. I told him to pay a visit to the english forums, and that he'll see people pretty much complain about anything. -
03-15-2012, 02:03 AMsyntaxliesblm has second wind which doesn't need tp anymore so i no longer need invigorate. i lose sentinel(not a big deal to me) and cant remember off hand any other skills i use on my thm that arnt from arch or pug. MP management was the biggest thing holding thm back and with convert i stand by me saying convert is worth it alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
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03-15-2012, 02:19 AMRydinWow.. I speak a little french (Although I have trouble with a lot of the specific game terms)... I may pop over there and check it out... Honestly we want all of the abilities to last longer... But we don't want a situation like when "Deflection" was overpoweredQuote:
Originally Posted by Evaddaragon
Yea.. I guess its just 2 different opinions...Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxlies
Nice that we can show the rest of the forum that 2 people can disagree without getting angry... hurling insults and flaming.... in usual sensationalist forum fashion
"OMGEEEE, you're so wring it makes me want to stab my eyes out with one of those tiny crab forks"
But seriously... in an EXP party or mid level NM (Which is all you'd probably be doing at 30-40 anyway) BLM isn't that much worse than Thaum (or as my Australian friend says "Therm." and I'm like "Heat Mage???") -
03-15-2012, 02:23 AMsyntaxliesthats it, /equip flamethrower, lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
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03-15-2012, 02:36 AMMolly_MillionsIf we're just looking at survivability, then you are correct. However, in my statement, I was considering the speed with which one can complete solo content. GLA/PLD is at the bottom of the list in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
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03-15-2012, 03:07 AMKioteExactly..Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
People were so mad that they could make their character into anything they wanted, they demanded SE put and end to the absurdity that is playing your own way and dramatically restrict Party Game Play.
For the Record, I warned you all.
Props to SE for making Good Storylines though. -
03-15-2012, 03:17 AMsyntaxliesjust wondering what you warned people about. Did you warn them that jobs would have some new skills with restrictions but you would still be able to use classes if they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
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03-15-2012, 03:19 AMKioteI warned them that Jobs would do absolutely nothing and was a complete waste of Dev resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxlies
And guess what they did, nothing. -
03-15-2012, 03:21 AMRydinI think he is talking about 12/21/12Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxlies
Jobs will be awesome once there are 2 jobs per class (Although I am very happy with them now)... they are laying a foundationQuote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
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03-15-2012, 03:23 AMsyntaxliesthat's a strong opinion but far from fact, tell that to all the people who like them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
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03-15-2012, 03:27 AMKioteI dont dislike them at all, but they dont DO anything. They could have just as easily made traits gives Bonuses to Specific Builds and rename Classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxlies
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03-15-2012, 03:28 AMEight
Sleepga is pretty awesome though for Black Mage nothing like running through Darkhold putting everything to bed for awhile.
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03-15-2012, 03:44 AMXooAll the new jobs are virtually the same as their old counterparts, and all have their valuable situations. Their simple function at the moment is adding a new depth to gameplay. As I've said before, and I'm sure you've all noticed, the old jobs benefit greatly from having access to the Raise spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
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03-15-2012, 03:46 AMMolly_MillionsYes they do. They do exactly what they were intended to do, provide a vertical growth "tree".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
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03-15-2012, 03:57 AMAkumuYou can't state you warned us of something as if something bad would happen when the majority favors jobs over the classes. In my opinion I'll take actual teamwork in a group instead of a team of soloists any day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
Also, don't forget that neither replaces the other. SE added two types of leveling/play styles and it's your choice on how to play. I don't see how that was a waste of resources when it something they can brag about to attract players. -
03-15-2012, 03:59 AMConradus1) It changes your stats. As BLM you get more MP and INT but fewer HP, among other things. This effect may not be much at 31, but will only get bigger as you level up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
2) You get special abilities, one at level 30 that you get on completing the quest to get the job. For BLM, this is Convert, which swaps your HP and MP. As an old FFXI Red Mage, I can tell you that this ability *rocks*. Properly managed, using Necrogenesis, Second Wind and potions, it basically means you never run out of MP. You then qualify to quest at five level intervals for a new ability, ending with your fifth at 50. For BLM these are the ancient magics for the elements you control (Freeze, Flare and Burst) and Sleepga, an AoE sleep spell.
3) You can equip stuff that only the job can equip. At the moment, this is the AF armor sets that you can get as special drops, and they are *very* nice.
4) The downside is, as you noticed, the lack of flexibility. You get half the number of out-of-class abilities to choose, and can only choose from two classes (for BLM, this is PGL and ARC).
Generally, yes, it will get better as you level up, although I think you are greatly underestimating Convert. It does leave you with a narrow focus, meaning you won't solo well, but within your area of focus, you are definitely stronger. In properly constructed party, you have a WHM (or CNJ) to do your Protects and Cures, and he does them better than you do as a THM anyways. -
03-15-2012, 04:19 AMWynn
Personally, I don't find convert to be useful in XIV. Your MP ends up regenerating before your puller can bring a new group of mobs anyway. I guess it's good if you want to give your WHM a small heart attack every now and then.
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03-15-2012, 04:37 AMConradusIn XP fights, yeah, you're right, you just don't use MP that fast. I'm looking forward to using it in Moogle, though, where I'm always having to ration my MP. Should prove useful in other boss fights as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn