So to keep a long post as short as I can, I've decided to be a dancer main this expansion, but I'm getting mixed messages in that some say dnc will never be wanted and others say dnc will always be wanted for parse padding. I went dancer to be a supportive style dps that is helpful to groups, but now I'm worried that I'm either gonna be just a benched job or a glorified push up bra. What do y'all think of Dancer and will it be a nice addition to groups or just a job that is either ignored or only taken for the sake of making other people's numbers look better than they really are?
Opinions on Dancer?
Printable View
-
07-13-2019, 10:46 AMRenryuuOpinions on Dancer?
-
07-13-2019, 11:43 AMKurando
It's a fun job and personally it feels easy to use, but those procs just ain't going to cut it. You could go several minutes with barely any and then the next moment procs are coming from all places, it wasn't a good thing to have on SB MCH so not sure why DNC needs to have them this time around. I imagine when jobs do get some adjustments (which likely will become after the first savage tier), DNC will be a more reliable form of DPS that it isn't just support and RNG.
-
07-13-2019, 11:46 AMkidalutzLets put things into perspective. Back in the days when DRK absolutely sucked monkey marble a player that got worlds first clear was asked why they played Dark. Thier response was simply. "I like playing Dark Knight it's fun." world first kill with a job that before that had been ridiculed. Dancer is absolutely a class that will not be a bench warmer and it's amazingly fun to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
-
07-13-2019, 01:07 PMHyoMinPark
I find DNC to be a lot of fun. It can be pretty busy at max level when you have procs from Feathers and Saber Dance flowing in, especially during your Technical Finish window. The RNG is not terrible at later levels, especially since you get a skill at level 72 to force-proc all of your Flourished abilities every 60 seconds. I personally don't understand the complaints about RNG, because the more you level the easier it gets to deal with it. But I also played SB BRD, which was another heavily-RNG job. Unlike HW/SB MCH, DNC's base combos for single-target and AOE aren't 100% RNG. Just the Flourished procs, which are not part of our combo.
It does have lower personal damage, but we don't know yet how it's rDPS will pan out to be. We won't know until the release of Savage, more than likely. It is likely that DNC will be brought for padded runs, and for runs that want to stack what raid buffs are left in this game, but we will know more about those meta, again, once Savage is released and we see more hard numbers. For the casual raider, it doesn't matter as much.
The DNC RNG isn't bad at all the closer you get to 80. Sometimes you have so many procs during a Technical Finish window you can't fit them all in there. At 72, you learn Flourish, which force procs all 5 of your Flourished skills, and you can use it every 60 seconds. So it will always be available during burst windows (e.g., Trick Attack, Technical Finish, Chain, Litany, Battle Voice) for you to push out damage. At 76, you get your Esprit gauge and Saber Dance. During Technical Finish windows where you're gaining Esprit from the entire party, I find myself wishing Saber Dance was oGCD because sometimes I get so much Esprit my gauge hits max becfore I can empty it on the skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurando
It's only at lower levels where RNG seems slow, I guess, but I didn't find DNC to be any worse than RDM VerRNG, personally. Especially once you're able to force proc with Flourish. -
07-13-2019, 01:52 PMKurandoI did get DNC to lvl 80 though still I think there are one too many processes, perhaps at least Fan Dance III could be guaranteed or maybe something else (without resorting to Flourish). Rising Windmill and Bloodshower also require you to have targets around you (to proc) so sometimes you have to time these to avoid aoes and whatnot. We get Flourish every 60secs which is all good, and yeah we can end with a lot of Espirit being generated at times but there is a lot of RNG without a doubt and RDM at least has reliable burst damage when you get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
-
07-13-2019, 03:07 PMCeallachYou get all five procs once per minute via Flourish, so it's more about managing feathers while hitting procs as you build up into your Flourish/Devilment window.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurando
Personally, I think it's really fun. It feels too squishy, but that does make sense for dancer. I feel like there should be at least one more thing you can do with your Dance Partner, and Curing Waltz should probably not be based on Mind when you're a DPS. -
07-13-2019, 03:21 PMKurandoSee my previous post. I just don't want DNC going down the SB MCH route of RNG having too much control on your burst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
Isn't it based on the job's primary stat like Second Wind, so DEX for Dancer? (I mean if it was based on Mind it would restore less than SMN's Physick as the potency is lower than that spell and Waltz definitely restores more!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
-
07-13-2019, 04:58 PMYanderePrincessIt's based on the exact same thing as Second Wind. Honestly, the only thing that hinders Curing Waltz's effectiveness from what I'm seeing is that it's not especially needed because the healers can handle the healing without any significant trouble. This might change more when we get Savage, especially during progression, though, and that 400 potency AoE heal every minute will see much more appreciation. As it is, it's still at least one less Medica/etc needed after a stack mechanic, which is hardly a bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
-
07-13-2019, 05:07 PMYanderePrincess
As for DNC in comparison to SB MCH, I don't think there is a comparison. Like, I can see why you'd be concerned, but from playing both it and SB MCH, the difference while similar at a glance are like night and day in practice. You always have a combo to do, even if you're getting no procs. This alone, to me, makes a world of difference in the feel. The fact that the procs aren't technically part of the combo further eliminates the problem from SB MCH where you had to get the first proc just to have a chance at proccing the last part of the combo. Flourish also feels far better and provides far more than the awkwardness that was Reload/Ammo on MCH. The only issue I have with DNC right now, aside from my own stupidity making me dash off arenas, is it kinda feels like Saber Dance should also have a 50% chance to generate a fourfold feather, since using it takes away from your chance to generate flourishes/feathers. But that's less of a complaint and more just something that feels like it'd be a QoL improvement. I'm fine with how it is now. It just feels to me like it'd make more sense for it to have that chance to give a feather.
-
07-13-2019, 06:45 PMXelanar
My opinion on Dancer is... it's fun!
I played Machinist during heavensward, so I'm also comfortable with those 50% chance proccs. I even like them a lot and prefer those to any fixed 1-2-3 combo/rotation that many other jobs are based on.
On a side note though: You are definitely going to be a 'glorified push-up bra', because that is what support oriented jobs are supposed to be. They can manage on their own, but they really shine when buffs are aligned to other party member's burst phases.
I read something in a different dancer thread that made a good point:
Dancers will be loved by raid groups who know what they are doing, time their buffs together and play organized. On groups where everyone does its own thing they will however be wasted potential. -
07-13-2019, 07:02 PMKolsykol
I was a bit disappointed tbh, I stopped at 70 it just wasn't all that fun to me.
Something that really bothered me tho was how the animations are cancelled when you move in certain direction o_o.
You have all of these great looking animations but then you move and they just end immediately, it really bothered me.
Especially since they're supposed to be dancers so the animations actually playing out is a lot more important imo. -
07-13-2019, 08:52 PMHyoMinParkDNC has reliable burst as well if you know how to manage your Feathers and line up everything into a Technical Finish/Devilment window. Ideally, you hold 3 feathers for then and Flourish, meaning you're guaranteed at least 3 Fan Dance Is and all 5 Flourished procs in that 20 second window (it's also very likely you'll get more Feathers simply from using your Flourished procs. You also hold Saber Dance until 80 Esprit, and you will always be guaranteed at least 2 or 3 Saber Dances within TF+Devilment simply due to the amount you're getting from your party. If a person is failing to manage their resources and line things up with their burst window, of course everything will fall flat. That is true for any job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurando
Rising Windmill and Bloodshower are easy enough to manage once you get used to content and knowing where you can move to safely avoid AOEs. Sometimes they may not hit every mob in a trash pack if you're required to move, but as long as they hit one you'll keep your proc chance.
The RNG doesn't bother me. But, again, I mained BRD in Stormblood, which was fairly RNG heavy. They didn't even have a reliable burst that could be controlled like DNC with force proccing - we either had super amazing opener with 2~3 Pitch Perfects and a Barrage Refulgent or super trash opener with 1 Pitch Perfect and a Barrage Empyreal. DNC has more control over its burst by comparison, in my opinion, and DNC's proc rate (50%) is the same as RDM's VerRNG, if I'm not mistaken. -
07-13-2019, 09:09 PMNexxus
You can stack 3-4 stacks of proc between Technical Step, so it is a good things to keep them until your burst time, to bad tho is that you still have to rely on RNG for the last feather to proc during that phase.
So your DPS rely mostly on this, you can deal massive amount of damage in less than 10s but you can also do crappy amount of damage too.
it can get messy when you have to keep an eye on proc, while keeping an eye on the battlefield, while keeping an add on your buff timer... -
07-13-2019, 09:30 PMSaefinnI think this is always an important thing to remember and kinda why I don't like the "meta" mentality. If you're going to pure optimisation at the top percentile, maybe it works, but the majority of the player base does not fit into that category. I see more value in people who love and are really into the job they play and get the most out of it than one who has picked it because it's "meta". Generally when somebody loves their job and dedicated to the roll, then they will find ways to maximise it and make up for its shortcomings. I was like this with ARR SCH, I know somebody who was like this with HW MCH (when they were rejected for MCH's low DPS), I've known a couple of MNK's like this and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidalutz
Personally, I love playing DNC and will be pushing to try and maximise my own DPS out of it and the group DPS. The only problem I have at the moment is if there is a dip in latency, it can interrupt the flow, but that's the same with similar jobs. I don't mind the RNG, because it's not infrequent enough to make me hate it but more procs wouldn't go amiss, it does play a little bit like HW MCH, but I also liked HW MCH. The latency may have something to do with being in the UK whilst being on a US server, however, I'm one of those RP weirdos and that's where the RP community at. There are a couple of VPN's claiming they'll improve latency, so I might try them, see how they do. -
07-13-2019, 10:39 PMHezzlocksAbsolutely agreed. I've always been of the opinion that you should play what you find *fun*, not what you hear is the meta. The meta has only ever mattered in absolute highest level of play, where every % matters. Anywhere below that, and it no longer matters, because not only are you probably not really good enough to make that % count, but also you're probably at the skill level where you're going to perform better with something you enjoy, rather than whatever is the "best".Quote:
Originally Posted by Saefinn
-
07-13-2019, 10:48 PMCrushnight
I find it absolutely fun to play, yea rng is rng but i had fun with brd/mch in SB so rng doesn't bother me much.
What i love most is i feel like i actually benefit my party like any support job should, this is my preferred playstyle, it is why it resonates with me, why i love ast as my hlr, i guess it is just how i am i'd rather be able to buff my friends up than deal huge damage :P -
07-14-2019, 01:09 AMConnor
I’ve absolutely loved Dancer. The weaponskills look great, there are so many ways to support the party, and RNG procs don’t bother me, maybe since I was previously Bard main.
Speaking of Bard, compared to Dancer it feels like a hot mess. There’s barely anything to do outside of waiting for procs and spamming Quick Knock, you have very limited support options, and you don’t even get a job gauge until level 80. Plus the vast majority of your animations still clip into each other, resulting in things like shooting an arrow the enemy mid spin while facing away from them, or no arrow being present during the shooting animation (minor complain I know lol, but the point is that Dancer animations all flow pretty well together)
As a Dancer I can save up my procs for a burst, use them immediately if I have Flourish ready or ws procs. When Flourish is on cooldown, I still have steps to support the party with, Samba and Waltz for utility, Devilment for the damage boost. I never feel like I’m locked out of my support options by cooldowns or redundancy (not having a reason to use them), which I think really make it feel like both a ranged DPS and a support.
The way I see, Dancer is the job for ranged who want to play as support. Machinist is the job for ranged who would prefer more of a focus on damage.
Bard is the job for...people who like archers I guess? Dancer offers so much, as does Machinist (not that I can speak from personal experience).
Tl;dr: if you want to see how good Dancer is, just look at how lame Bard is right now -
07-14-2019, 03:56 AMthrashetteQuote:
Originally Posted by Connor
I have the complete opposite opinion. BRD feels really smooth and easy to play this expansion. I love the added emphasis on not wasting procs in order to use Apex Arrow, as well as the small optimizations you can do with that skill, like during AoE phases or planning for periods of invulnerability or being out of range. The proc rate feels extremely consistent compared to how it was before, where if you were gearing for iLvl only or were level synced, you had nothing to do. Then again, I raided without a DRG... so I'm getting a lot more procs than I was before. And the AoE feels great to use in dungeons, whereas before I'd run out of TP really quick when the other party members weren't AoEing, and the DPS was trash outside of Mage's.
DNC, on the other hand, is deceptively difficult. I practiced a ton on the SSS dummy (funnily enough, I'd sometimes clear with 30 sec remaining, and sometimes I'd fail to kill it at all.) But that doesn't prepare you for playing in a "live" environment at all due to how fast Esprit generates, and how it takes priority over other GCDs. In a solo situation, you become accustomed to maybe sometimes using SD during a Technical Window. But it's pretty much always ready to use once, if not multiple times, in a group, so it gets hectic with everything lit up on your bars and trying to dump your feathers and not miss FD3s. Also, the separate GCD timer for the dances is a little awkward considering how much of a potency loss it is for not drifting or clipping it based on your skill speed. I feel like both BRD and DNC rotations are pretty easy to learn, but the impact of playing suboptimally on DNC is much larger than it is for BRD, especially because your pDPS is so low to begin with. -
07-14-2019, 03:58 AMRyoXander
Just level it if you find it fun. Who the hell cares what anyone else has to say. Right now it's very popular and SE will tweak it as needed in the near future.
-
07-14-2019, 04:03 AMYanderePrincessThe only animation I've seen get cancelled by movement is, ironically, Peloton.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolsykol
-
07-14-2019, 04:07 AMDuskane
im keen to try dancer
i generally love lots a bit of support elements why i stick with tanks
bard never really clicked with me and ninja lost most of its support/utility over each expansion -
07-14-2019, 07:02 AMdragoeletei think they might be useing legacy movement where when you try to go backwards your char does slower backsteps rather than doing a 180 and running.since the backsteps cancel animations... i think been a while since i used legacy movementQuote:
Originally Posted by YanderePrincess