Temple Cyclas.....

Am I missing something? I've been messing around trying to find this conserve mp on fists to no avail. I'll keep messin with this, but if anyone already knows I'd appreciate you savin me some time.

What does the conserve mp on this piece actually do!?

When it works correctly, the effect conserves 3MP/tic. That's 25MP/tic instead of the default 28 at level 50.

I'm getting my fists only taking 25/tic even after i take it off, maybe its just bein glitchy for me. Thank you for answering though.

Edit: okay got it. the conserve mp (25 instead of 28/tic) is activated by using the fists when you already have the af on. after activation however you can strip off that junky body until you either: change fists or run outta mp. That'll allow you to activate fists for cheap mode, then swap into a better body armor.

My suggestion is to macro the body onto your fists activation. Only trouble i foresee is you're going to be unable to redo fists for the 25/tic until you're between mobs.

When you equip the cyclas and use a fist buff you reduce the mp costs to 25 per tick and is persistent meaning if you buff and remove the cyclas the cost is still reduced... until it is recast without the cyclas on. hope that helps :)

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

My suggestion is to macro the body onto your fists activation. Only trouble i foresee is you're going to be unable to redo fists for the 25/tic until you're between mobs.

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Nothing like abusing a game mechanics with gear swaping. More like FF11 everyday.

Idk about abusing, i see it as actually finding a use for an otherwise subpar piece of armor. lol

This makes me hope they fix it so removing any AF removes any bonus on existent buffs.

The point of that AF is the bonus, and if it can be abused by putting on, buffing, then taking off then it's just silly. I don't want any gear-swapping shenanigans.

Don't worry about gearswapping shenanigans just yet.

I have around 2100MP in a full party. Without AF, I can carry on fisting for 3 minutes and 45 seconds; with AF bonus, 4 minutes and 12 seconds. That's 27 additional seconds without any resting, Ballad or Sucker Punch--nothing spectacular.

Gearswapping in FFXIV is so cumbersome for melee that I wouldn't recommend working it into a macro for regular use. Before a primal or boss fight, where the battle is long and the element consistent, you could do it from the gear menu.

I am more concerned about swapping AF feet once Explorer/Darklight comes my way. I never want to go without that recast reduction, but have you seen those raid boots!?

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

I have around 2100MP in a full party. Without AF, I can carry on fisting for 3 minutes and 45 seconds; with AF bonus, 4 minutes and 12 seconds. That's 27 additional seconds without any resting, Ballad or Sucker Punch--nothing spectacular.

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225 seconds vs 252 seconds. That is 12% increase in time you can keep melee with fists up. To get that kind of return in time you would need a 252 mana increase. 252 mana increase is equal to 7.2 max stat IV mana materia binds. Nothing Spectacular indeed.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Don't worry about gearswapping shenanigans just yet.

I have around 2100MP in a full party. Without AF, I can carry on fisting for 3 minutes and 45 seconds; with AF bonus, 4 minutes and 12 seconds. That's 27 additional seconds without any resting, Ballad or Sucker Punch--nothing spectacular.

Gearswapping in FFXIV is so cumbersome for melee that I wouldn't recommend working it into a macro for regular use. Before a primal or boss fight, where the battle is long and the element consistent, you could do it from the gear menu.

I am more concerned about swapping AF feet once Explorer/Darklight comes my way. I never want to go without that recast reduction, but have you seen those raid boots!?

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Yea an LSmate of mine got the server first Darklight piece which also happens to be the Caligae. Absolutely amazing. I have my eyes on the Corselet, Eyepatch and Bracers as well for MNK.

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Originally Posted by Klive

225 seconds vs 252 seconds. That is 12% increase in time you can keep melee with fists up. To get that kind of return in time you would need a 252 mana increase. 252 mana increase is equal to 7.2 max stat IV mana materia binds. Nothing Spectacular indeed.

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The conserve MP effect is more like a very specific Refresh effect than a virtual increase to MP, as you suggest. It should be compared to other means of replenishing MP--down time, Ballad, Sucker Punch, ether even--all of which are generally more effective than 3MP/tic and don't rely on gearswapping.

I find Darklight Body and Head amazing for Monk but on the other hand, the boots and the hands seem usless to me, they take away more than what they give you.
AF hands are better IMO.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

I find Darklight Body and Head amazing for Monk but on the other hand, the boots and the hands seem usless to me, they take away more than what they give you.
AF hands are better IMO.

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The caligae are on the lower end of things. It all comes down to whether or not you will use Fists of Wind for a particular encounter. The enhanced Wind is very good for WS cooldowns. It's like an everlasting Keen Flurry + Quick.

The bracers are far from bad though. AF set only really gives Attack +40, which is great. Bracers on the other hand give Attack +30 and Accuracy +35.

Now, before 1.21 I would have brushed the accuracy buff aside, but it seems to me not everyone has noticed the fix they did to accuracy. Even in Full Party without any accuracy buffs MNk is far from 100%. Missing leads to a much greater DPS loss than 10 less Attack.

For hands I still prefer Double Melded Raptorskin and use Acc ring's. As for the AF body. I still use my Rainmakers over it due to it having a high Crit power. with how much you can spam Sucker punch and if you have a bard (we usually do) MP is a joke to keep up.

If you don't have double meld T4 hands Darklight > all but if you do them+acc rings > all

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Originally Posted by Xianghua

For hands I still prefer Double Melded Raptorskin and use Acc ring's. As for the AF body. I still use my Rainmakers over it due to it having a high Crit power. with how much you can spam Sucker punch and if you have a bard (we usually do) MP is a joke to keep up.

If you don't have double meld T4 hands Darklight > all but if you do them+acc rings > all

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Now I don't know how much STR/ATK you have on your raptorskin gloves but coupled with 2 accuracy rings (+30-36 accuracy) it would have to beat the Attack +30, Accuracy +35 of the bracers + the STR +20-24 from rings.

If we accept the accuracy to be the same for both scenarios, then your gloves would have to have the equivalent of at least (even more due to the STR bonus for PGL/MNK) 60-66 Attack Power / 40-44 STR. Both of those are above a perfect tier IV double meld.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Now I don't know how much STR/ATK you have on your raptorskin gloves but coupled with 2 accuracy rings (+30-36 accuracy) it would have to beat the Attack +30, Accuracy +35 of the bracers + the STR +20-24 from rings.

If we accept the accuracy to be the same for both scenarios, then your gloves would have to have the equivalent of at least (even more due to the STR bonus for PGL/MNK) 60-66 Attack Power / 40-44 STR. Both of those are above a perfect tier IV double meld.

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Str you can get from other places and don't need to be use for rings my mnk right now has both str and int over 300 No darklight yet.

With acc rings + 2 Tier 4(30 and 27)+4 on hands = 61attack+36acc

Darklight hands + str rings give you 30atk 35acc and 36str

So you have 1acc and 31atk vs 36 str

With Darklight boots + body you will have another 28acc. so can take off an acc ring for a str ring/atk ring

So with the BIS you should have more then enough acc making 2xmeld hands better then Darklight.

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Originally Posted by Xianghua

Str you can get from other places and don't need to be use for rings my mnk right now has both str and int over 300 No darklight yet.

With acc rings + 2 Tier 4(30 and 27)+4 on hands = 61attack+36acc

Darklight hands + str rings give you 30atk 35acc and 36str

So you have 1acc and 31atk vs 36 str

With Darklight boots + body you will have another 28acc. so can take off an acc ring for a str ring/atk ring

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STR and ATK go at a 2:3 ratio without any consideration for class bonus. So 2 STR gives the equivalent increase to damage as 3 Attack Power. If the class in question also has STR as a bonus attribute then it gives even more of an increase to damage until you hit the STR cap. However the 2:3 holds true even after the STR cap. Such has been tested by Seiken extensively and confirmed by other sources.

Therefore 36 STR is equivalent to 54 Attack Power. This is only if you already hit the STR cap on PGL/MNK, the value of which is yet unknown. If you haven't hit it, then STR gives an even greater increase to damage done as the 2:3 effect is compounded with the class attribute bonus.

So yes, I'll gladly take 36 STR (54 attack) over 30 attack + 1 acc.

As for boots, that's another story. I'm comparing 2 pieces exclusively, and only including rings since you did. Gaining multiple pieces of the darklight set can change everything.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

STR and ATK go at a 2:3 ratio without any consideration for class bonus. So 2 STR gives the equivalent increase to damage as 3 Attack Power. If the class in question also has STR as a bonus attribute then it gives even more of an increase to damage until you hit the STR cap. However the 2:3 holds true even after the STR cap. Such has been tested by Seiken extensively and confirmed by other sources.

Therefore 36 STR is equivalent to 54 Attack Power. This is only if you already hit the STR cap on PGL/MNK, the value of which is yet unknown. If you haven't hit it, then STR gives an even greater increase to damage done as the 2:3 effect is compounded with the class attribute bonus.

So yes, I'll gladly take 36 STR (54 attack) over 30 attack + 1 acc.

As for boots, that's another story. I'm comparing 2 pieces exclusively, and only including rings since you did. Gaining multiple pieces of the darklight set can change everything.

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I'll take your word for it since you do look like you know more then me. and thank you for the tips. However when more gear does get added. I still see such a high amount of attack in 1 piece highly valuable. which as you said is another story.

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Originally Posted by Xianghua

I'll take your word for it since you do look like you know more then me. and thank you for the tips. However when more gear does get added. I still see such a high amount of attack in 1 piece highly valuable. which as you said is another story.

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Agreed :D

/10char

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Agreed :D

/10char

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What I'm aiming for my monk is

Weapon: Ifrit Claws
Head: Darklight (atk+15, Crit +40 crit power+30 int+20)
Body: Darklight (atk+10 str+20 acc+18 critpower+30 stp+40)
Hand: Raptorskin (+61 atk)
Legs: Felt Trousers (str+20 Dex+16)
Feet: Darklight (acc+10 critpower+20)
Waist: Explorer's (crit +12)
Rings: STRx2 (36 STR)
Braclet: Rubelight (str+3)
Earring: Explorer's (atk+5)
Neck: Explorer's (15acc 20 crit)

So in all

STR +79
Attack +121
Acc +43
Dex +16
Int +20
Crit rate +72
Crit power +80
STP +40

Not sure if It will be the best set up for monk. Will have to wait and see. Also have a 3meld gloves with +40 str on them.

I want an Orange Cyclas!

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

STR and ATK go at a 2:3 ratio without any consideration for class bonus. So 2 STR gives the equivalent increase to damage as 3 Attack Power. If the class in question also has STR as a bonus attribute then it gives even more of an increase to damage until you hit the STR cap. However the 2:3 holds true even after the STR cap. Such has been tested by Seiken extensively and confirmed by other sources.

Therefore 36 STR is equivalent to 54 Attack Power. This is only if you already hit the STR cap on PGL/MNK, the value of which is yet unknown. If you haven't hit it, then STR gives an even greater increase to damage done as the 2:3 effect is compounded with the class attribute bonus.

So yes, I'll gladly take 36 STR (54 attack) over 30 attack + 1 acc.

As for boots, that's another story. I'm comparing 2 pieces exclusively, and only including rings since you did. Gaining multiple pieces of the darklight set can change everything.

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You have your str:atk conversion backwards.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post589207

3 str = 2 atk

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

You have your str:atk conversion backwards.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post589207

3 str = 2 atk

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Pretty sure I got it right.

Though it does seem to be presented in reverse on the thread you linked - which I read - as well as Seiken's.

Neither of them, from what I can tell, show testing of the actual STR:ATK ratio. More like they show how that relationship persists even after the attribute bonus hits a cap.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Pretty sure I got it right.

Though it does seem to be presented in reverse on the thread you linked - which I read - as well as Seiken's.

Neither of them, from what I can tell, show testing of the actual STR:ATK ratio. More like they show how that relationship persists even after the attribute bonus hits a cap.

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Well Seiken also stats it's a 3:2 ratio str:atk

"Attack Power

Attack Power appears to have the greatest influence on auto-attack and weapon skills when Strength has been “capped” at 290. Unlike Piety and Strength, Attack Power does not have specific value at which it caps. However, based on my Archer testing where Attack Power capped on R1 Corroded Coblyns, I would venture to say that if you got your Attack Power high enough on Lancer, you will cap against the monster’s Def/Vit/Lvl (I’m not sure which influences ATK). Also, similar to Archer, Strength and Attack Power seem to have a 3:2 ratio (STR:ATK). Any additional damage that STR above 290 adds is from its 3:2 Attack Power influence."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...IE-ATK-Testing

I am more inclined to believe them (Seiken & Kaeko) then older data from Carraway

Well, at lot of the Seiken testing appears to be on what STR is to ATTK when going PAST the (old) 1.20 cap for STR. Carraway's range of testing was still under or slightly above the theorized cap back then (275-295). So, one can say, they're both right as they were testing in much different areas. The diminishing returns for STR's contribution to damage flips the ratio in ATTK's favor when STR is being pushed above the cap.

Seiken's own recommendations where still to hit the cap on STR regardless and THEN max ATTK. With the new caps for WS in place, there needs to be a new look at the data and new testing to be done for how far up they've raised the cap and where the new figure for the "soft" cap for STR is.

There was some testing already that puts the caps at (iirc) 350 main stat, 310 sub stat.

Edit: Dug it up. Page 2. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ight=str%2Fpie

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

There was some testing already that puts the caps at (iirc) 350 main stat, 310 sub stat.

Edit: Dug it up. Page 2. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ight=str%2Fpie

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Yep, the thing to do now is push str to 350, int to 310, then just max atk. (I would probably rather push acc before atk for mnk though)

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

Am I missing something? I've been messing around trying to find this conserve mp on fists to no avail. I'll keep messin with this, but if anyone already knows I'd appreciate you savin me some time.

What does the conserve mp on this piece actually do!?

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all of the enhancement traits are pretty minimal. Don't let them be a deciding factor in using the gear.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

There was some testing already that puts the caps at (iirc) 350 main stat, 310 sub stat.

Edit: Dug it up. Page 2. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ight=str%2Fpie

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that testing is obsolete, they raised stat caps in 1.21.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

Yep, the thing to do now is push str to 350, int to 310, then just max atk. (I would probably rather push acc before atk for mnk though)

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I believe INT is PGL's main stat and STR the sub stat. At least based on the patch notes that told us First and Second Bonus stats.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

that testing is obsolete, they raised stat caps in 1.21.

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Has anyone confirmed this? The notes said they increased the effect of attributes on weaponskills, nothing about raising their cap.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I believe INT is PGL's main stat and STR the sub stat. At least based on the patch notes that told us First and Second Bonus stats.



Has anyone confirmed this? The notes said they increased the effect of attributes on weaponskills, nothing about raising their cap.

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well i have confirmed it by testing it myself. I don't have the test results to show, but I can tell you i have 320 str and 315 vit on my war and have noticeable damage increases. Also I tested vit 320 and vit 350 and saw an increase in damage but the damage was much better by sacrificing dome VIt to get str to 320. I would suggest getting the main stats to 320 and then adding attack power since I was unable to find a cap.

Tested post-1.21. Courtesy of Seiken.

ARC/BRD: 330 PIE / ~295 DEX
LNC/DRG: 348 STR / ~305 PIE
PGL/MNK: 348 STR / ~305 INT
MAR/WAR: 348 STR / ~305 VIT

- Tested using Ifrit weapons. Caps are lower if not using Ifrit's since base damage affects caps.
- You will always see damage increases with +STR regardless of cap because 3 STR = 2 ATK.
- Point for point, it is always better to invest in +1 stat over +1 ATK if you have not capped.
- If adding STR before cap on melee, you get a bonus for the stat and a STR:ATK ratio bonus.
- These "caps" represent the weapon skill caps. Auto-attack caps earlier.
- Only 1 WS was tested per job. It was assumed caps are the same for all WSs.

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Originally Posted by Kaeko

Tested post-1.20. Courtesy of Seiken.

ARC/BRD: 330 PIE / ~295 DEX
LNC/DRG: 348 STR / ~305 PIE
PGL/MNK: 348 STR / ~305 INT
MAR/WAR: 348 STR / ~305 VIT

- Tested using Ifrit weapons. Caps are lower if not using Ifrit's since base damage affects caps.
- You will always see damage increases with +STR regardless of cap because 3 STR = 2 ATK.
- Point for point, it is always better to invest in +1 stat over +1 ATK if you have not capped.
- If adding STR before cap on melee, you get a bonus for the stat and a STR:ATK ratio bonus.
- These "caps" represent the weapon skill caps. Auto-attack caps earlier.
- Only 1 WS was tested per job. It was assumed caps are the same for all WSs.

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i got damage increase past 305 vit on war. also your post says post 1.20, did you mean 1.21?

Ah sorry going to edit. Should be post 1.21. I'll talk to Valk today about the VIT thing. It's an easy thing to flesh out for him. What weapon where you using, on what mob were you testing on, and if you noted, what was your damage MIN/MAX before and after exceeding ~305VIT?