If all this has been covered before, then just leave a link in a reply and fine. But I didn't see anything covering these points. If this is all a duplication, then sorry.
I have played a few of the classes in the new expansion, and I love lots of them. [...] removed
So, about Summoner.
(1) The physick is either broken or at least it's no help at all from level 50ish. At level 10-15 ACN it does about a 20% of HP recovery with the quest gear. Nothing special just leveling up. That's very cool. No argument with that.
BUT at level 50 with Ironworks gear a SMN - and Physick still says 400 Heal Potency mind you - gives only 7%ish of HP. That's nonsense. That will not save you. I think you'll find that the recovery HP per tick, whatever that is, is more than that. Here's how I tested it so you can too. Go out in a low level area with your high level Summoner and synch to a low level fate - my test was a level 8 fate, which resulted in my having 315 HP. Then leave the fate and hit physick a few times. The heal will appear on the screen and float down. It's hard to see how much on the HP bar because it moves as it auto restores, but the value for the Physick alone appears on the screen and floats down. I got screen shots that show 460 as a typical number. Well my HP is 6652, and the Calculator says that's 6.9%. Did I do the math wrong? That's Ridiculous. If your HP is being trashed by some mobs [see next point] then you will not be able to recover with only a 7% heal no matter how many times you spam it.
(2) The pets [lets talk about Emerald Carby first] now do SHOT GUN or AOE spells rather than single target spells. This is really bad news for low level characters who are leveling. It used to be that an ACN out in the world could use their carby to help out until they got their Yellow Carby or their Titan. But now the Carby does not help, but hurts big time by causing more mobs to attack. It obviously does not tank - ok it never did - but this causes more mobs to be aggro'd to you because they were attacked by "you" ha ha joke is on you says the Carby.
I was a level 13-15 ACN doing fates and getting trashed by too many mobs jumping me until I shut down my Carby. Carby's didn't used to do this. They need to shoot ONE MOB not do an AOE bigger than a Megalocrab - yep I have pictures that show the radius of the AOE is slightly larger than a Megalocrab.
I have not tested my pets at level 50 or 70. I know they don't tank any more - I heard a rumor that they are all the same and only eyecandy for the changes. Not tested that yet. Shotgunning or AOE spells are not good for soloing with a ACN / SMN so that is a WAY BROKEN change if they are all the same. It does not matter in a dungeon or a raid. All fine there to be the way they are.
(3) Not having a TANK PET is a big problem.
This was TLTP too long to post sigh
Summoner has some real problems
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07-02-2019, 12:23 PMWindyGamerSummoner has some real problems
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07-02-2019, 12:24 PMWindyGamer
(3) Not having a TANK PET is a big problem. I'm sure there has been plenty of whining about this already. I'm just saying. Just to remind us. The reason that summoner was ever a job for leveling is that it had a tank pet. The Bird does something, but it's not as good - oh, at level 50 or level 70 - as a Titan Egi was and the Bird is not available in Solo Duties obviously. Please give me back my Tank Pet - whine whine.
I will have to level a DRK or GNB to do solo duties. At least they have armor and do a ton of damage and damage mitigation, which SMN lacks completely. Is this the goal of removing our SOLO Helper from SMN? So we solo with some other class?
So, did we not level an ACN/SMN from 0...50...60...70 with the new pets? I mean using MSQ and fates? Not POD? I know that's a lot of work. I know that SQE would have to farm that out. But it needed to be done. Just to remind us, you don't need to level a GNB or DNC through the MSQ from 1. Obviously. The starting jobs need to work well as solo jobs at lower / mid [50] levels.
Yeah yeah. TLDR, but if you made it here. Thanks for listening. -
07-02-2019, 12:29 PMFellgon
I understand your loss but the titan now have shields its help a buntch and you can cast twice, and if you solo something move aside so you dont get hit and dont pull more than 2 mobs, summoner have less HP than a Tank. I been playing in my SMN and i died just few times cause i pulled more than i could handle. and so far i never had to use pshysick, if you dodge and dont get hit, you wont need be healed...i been playing with any sort of potions so far, if you dont get hit you can get time, a few seconds to your hp go back a bit.
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07-02-2019, 12:46 PMWindyGamer
So you think it is all good? Well I don't think a 7% heal is ok. And it sounds like a complicated way to get around a feature that was built in before. That's an odd change for SMN since in all the other jobs, they were simplified, not complexified. I'm not in favor of this change. The first time I saw this problem was as a level 70 doing a an MSQ with a purple circle on the ground. Out pops 3 mobs - sure that happens all the time. And after one shot from my Titan - my old go to - they all JUMPED ME not the Titan. Apparently the Titan auto attack spell was an AOE, so all of the MOBS jumped me. So I died.. No way to Heal by Physick is a No OP now at this level. So I died. And after some help from a Nobel Soul I got out my bird and finished the MSQ. I'm not a fan of potions. If you need more than one in a fight, the large ones have wayyy too long a CD.
My experience in PoD is that SCH is a powerful class. Even now. Broil burns things down pretty fast. And there are Dots and other things. Pets heal and don't AOE mobs around you. And the heals actually work, on you and others in your party or not. Maybe my real solution is to stop soloing with SMN and start using SCH. Who knew? Unintended consequences? -
07-02-2019, 01:33 PMTaranok
My personal opinion is summoner doesn't need a tank pet, titan-egi always was a badly implemented pet, and the new implementation just further reinforces that Titan-Egi could be deleted and I doubt I'd care. Putting survival utility on a pet with a button that directly competes with doing more damage is already a bad enough idea, and the class has far bigger problems than not being able to solo mobs 100% safely like it could before. As for pets having aoes that can hit things around your target, it's entirely possible and reasonable to maneuver singular adds away from other adds, so I'm not sure this is actually a problem as long as you're patient enough to give the add enough time to move away from others. Hell, I've gone through all of ShB without my pet accidentally pulling anything that I wouldn't pull accidentally from Deathflare anyways.
Also, only the Faeries are the same. Ifrit is your single target damage pet, Garuda your aoe damage pet (ifrit does do aoe damage, but it's still primarily single target), and Titan is a noob trap since the shield is almost always the worst thing you can do in a given situation as it denies you both the damage from EA 1 and the ruin 4 charge. -
07-02-2019, 02:02 PMxXAzurePrimeXx
I really dont understand this fascination people seem to have with Physick on Summoner. Why do you guys want Summoner to be a healer?
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07-02-2019, 02:05 PMDuskaneRed mage has a working heal SMN want there's fixed!Quote:
Originally Posted by xXAzurePrimeXx
basically why -
07-02-2019, 02:35 PMWindyGamerNot clear here. So Titan was broken, so remove it? Rather than fixing it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranok
Also, all those differences between Ifrit / Garuda/ Titan are now gone, right? They are all the same. Just Eye candy differences?
"Primarily Single Target?" I'm not clear on the distinction here. Either it aggros other stuff to come at you or it doesn't. There is no "partial" aggro, is there? "Don't come at me really hard, just softly?" That doesn't sound right. Once you are aggro'd then that's one more thing banging down your HP that you need to worry about.
I have more testing to do, I admit. -
07-02-2019, 03:17 PMKinkyJalepeno
As a level 48 Summoner I feel the backside has been ripped out of the class with how pathetically similar the pets are now. I want my Tank, Melee and Ranged pets back - keep the abilities as they are now post patch, I like those changes but my god this class feels utter crap now.
At least fix Physick so it heals beyond a tickle.
Guess ill be playing Scholar now. -
07-02-2019, 03:26 PMLeidirivThe main thing there is that RDM mostly uses their heal to proc Dualcast while the boss is untargetable. Physick is just an unfortunate artifact of SMN and SCH both originating from ACN, which they seem to be loathe to remove from SMN for some reason, whereas RDM has traditionally had some healing ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
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07-02-2019, 03:26 PMStormblessed9000Physic only exists as something to let scholars heal at low levels. It's a carry-over from the archanist base class and you should never use it as a summoner. You really do not need a propper heal as a DPS class. Almost all DPS classes can function just fine with just a few limited survival tools (yours is the titan shield). The only exception is RDM and they pay for it by having lower raid DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by WindyGamer
You have other pets you can use. Otherwise just turn your pet on steady or pull mobs away before engaging like other classes do. Pre-50 solo content is not something that is hard enough to really be an issue anyway unless you are horribly under-geared.Quote:
Originally Posted by WindyGamer
While this is somewhat disappointing, you don't actually need a tank pet for anything (unless they haven't fixed some job quests). No other class has access to a pocket tank in duties and they get by just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by WindyGamer
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07-02-2019, 04:35 PMKaozurei
I don't really understand how any of the things OP mentioned are actual problems for Summoner right now... Physick has always been useless, it may as well not exist and SMN never needed a tank pet to begin with. I mean, none of the other DPS jobs have a tank pet of their own and they do just fine, even BLM whose defenses are the same as SMN's (save for Manaward but it's not like that can be spammed).
As for pets pulling things, Emerald Carbuncle is the AoE pet so of course it'll do AoE damage, though I've never had an instance when one of my pets has pulled multiple things that I didn't intend on pulling in the first place. There's no need to level a tank just to do solo content, all it takes it knowing how to play Summoner and getting decent gear. I've yet to meet anyone who was unable to clear a solo duty or an MSQ field ambush (purple circles) as a SMN, not even people who started playing the game when Early Access began. -
07-02-2019, 05:10 PMGallus
SMN right now is very problematic to play but not for the reasons you listed.
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07-02-2019, 05:41 PMMisutoraruRDM and BLM don’t have a petQuote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
BLM don’t have revive
RDM don’t have energy drain
BLM have infinite MP while SMN and RDM don’t
...etc
Just because other job have it doesn’t mean every job need the same kit -
07-02-2019, 07:01 PMDaethir
To OP : Garuda is the only pet that deal AOE damage on its auto attack so if you don't want to pull multiple mob just use another pet, physick is weak I guess but I mean who care we're DPS. I wasn't using Titan at all so I don't miss him but I agree his current form is stupid, they should have reworked him differently or just remove him, what we have now make no sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KinkyJalepeno
Pet are more different than they were before the patch, Ifrit is melee single target, Garuda is distance AOE, they have two different Egi assault each + enkidle. Idk what you're smoking. -
07-02-2019, 08:47 PMSeraphor
Given how easy it was to rip aggro off of Titan before, this is a huge improvement. What use is a tank pet if it doesn't have aggro?
Weren't SMNs asking for a manaward anyway? -
07-02-2019, 11:38 PMValmarus
Actually it was very easy to allow titan to tank, even emerald carby and ifrit with a little bit of hate management. Sure you were lowering your dps slightly but that isn't an issue for soloing. Low levels smn really needs them for damage soaking. Carby and Ifrit required a lot of healing, sometimes they would die anyway and you'd have to account for that either by prepping for an insta summon or by putting enough distance between you and the mob to resummon. As it stands low level summoner just gets completely chewed up by some basic world mobs or fate mobs. They need that damage buffer. And if they haven't changed the summoner job quests then they're goign to be a nightmare. Especially the titan one, there's so much DPS from the mobs in that one they used to chew through ifrit, and you can't leave the npc to handle it because they die and it's fail.
I know what people are going to say, low level blm doesn't have any damage barrier. Well no, but they have sleep and you use that a lot low level solo. They can also put out a lot more damage as spike damage so can spike > sleep > repeat if necessary. Or even burn it down before the mob closes the distance (though with the changes to MP costs of fireIII this may have changed since they get at most 3 casts of that now). SMN damage is a lot more of a slow burner.
The problem is everyone talks about their experience at high levels or in parties and says "ah it's all fine" but you can't balance classes completely around that in a game with so much solo content like hunt logs, challenges and fates (yes they're group content but you aren't necessarily IN a group). I keep saying it but SE haven't taking into account GETTING to 60 with these changes and soem classes have really suffered at their lower levels. -
07-03-2019, 12:25 AMxXAzurePrimeXx
Summoner has a few issues, however none of the ones you mentioned are even the real ones or even the changes that we actually need.
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07-03-2019, 06:04 AMOmegaSinXI main SMN so with a title like this, I thought you would be highlighting real issues. All of the points you brought up are petty complaints. If you want a strong physick, go play SCH. Summoner cant be great at doing everything, if it were, what would be the point of playing other classesQuote:
Originally Posted by WindyGamer
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07-03-2019, 01:35 PMTaranokIf physick is a carry over, legacy mechanic, then the devs could and should have deleted it as of ShB. The devs went so far as to split Ruin 1+2 into 2 separate instances of the same ability depending on whether you're SCH or SMN, and Physick is technically also split. The devs added ARC skills like Fester at a level range where SCH should also get it, but they do not. At this point, legacy mechanics are no longer an excuse, the classes have been cut in half in almost every possible way at this point, and they have next to no actual overlap anymore, especially at 80.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormblessed9000
This doesn't mean physick should exist on SMN, but what it means is that if it exists, it should be reasonably usable. -
07-03-2019, 01:48 PMDuskaneyeah i understand its just the reasoning most useQuote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
"there heal works why cant ours"
i wish they would just remove physick maybe even resurection of SMN and let them be SCH only skills -
07-04-2019, 07:45 AMNiko_Kishiko
Is Summoner parcing bad against other jobs equally geared? Thats all I care about. I don't mind how busy the job is, I can get used to that, but if I'm busting my tail for low dps??? That sh!t doesn't fly.
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07-04-2019, 07:58 AMRakith
I thought I would find here real SMN issue.. I guess the subject must have been posted by a lvl 15 SMN?...
Never used physics never used titan egi as far as I can remember... -
07-04-2019, 03:56 PMSapphidia
As people have said, the issues you bring up arent really relevant because they affect most dps classes. Black Mage has no personal tank, just some shields. Most melee DPS have only the bare essentials of a self heal.
All of the issues can be easily fixed by one single thing - USE YOUR COMBAT CHOCOBO.
Stick some points in the healer tree to get the level 4 Choco Cure skill, then dump the rest between Tank and DPS trees, spreading points around. Bam, you have a tank for solo or something that can spam heal you without interrupting your dps. Even if you just leave them on DPS stance they're a nice solo DPS boost but a choco with a heal fixes pretty much every issue you have, especially if comboed with titan-egi. -
07-05-2019, 03:09 AMJarenCoraxThey are issues, though, because, even if I pulled aggro off titan-egi after 3-4 hits, that's 3-4 hits that it took instead of me, and likely with the mob far away from me, because I know how to position myself and my pet so my foes spend more time running between us than getting hits in. And ultimately it isn't about how much damage is soaked by who, it's about the feel of the playstyle, and I play pet classes so that I can juggle aggro and do other fun things with my pet, and in order to do that, the pet needs to be able to aggro and take hits. If I had wanted to play a class that just blasts things, I would have picked any of those others to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphidia
In every other MMO I've played, the pets were combatants and they offered some additional pet-specific utility (cc, healing, tanking, debuffing, cleansing of debuffs). In FFXIV, that was barely the case with titan-egi, and now the egis are just sparkling blobs that float around you, and their "pet-specific utility", except for one damage shield on the caster, is slightly different forms of doing damage, most of which are AOE and will pull extra aggro when I don't want it. If, for example, titan-egi offered an earthbind slow cc, or garuda-egi had a blind, push, or pull, or ifrit offered fire resist, those would actually be interesting things in spite of the pets not being combatants any more, but we don't even get that, it's just more dps.
World of Warcraft Warlocks (vanilla anyhow) and Guild Wars 2 Rangers both handled the pet survivability problem in similar ways—when you want to, you can sacrifice/merge with your pet to get a buff (+damage, +regen) or take on some of the utility actions of the pet (which were actual utilities), scaled appropriately. Either of those approaches would have worked better than flatly removing pets as separate combatants.
I've read other threads about how Summoner still holds its own on damage, however busy it might be or however much tunnel vision it might require, but I'm not interested, because it just isn't a pet class any more.
Chocobo isn't available in instances and you can't control it directly.Quote:
All of the issues can be easily fixed by one single thing - USE YOUR COMBAT CHOCOBO.
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07-05-2019, 03:16 AMSaix027They actually sort of did, i had to requip it for summoner i tihnk or scholar, unsure which, but basically each has there own Physick now but still the same ironicly. So they sort of changed those? But forgot to adjust it or what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranok
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07-05-2019, 03:35 AMMerryl
I used to be able to crit heal for almost 3k on summoner back in heavensward. I'll give you some time to think about that.....
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07-05-2019, 11:44 AMOmegaSinXPuhahahaha; let's be honest, in what situation would be having a tank pet be useful? Normal mobs die within seconds and in dungeons and raiding your hurting your DPS for no good reason. All the other DPS don't have pet tanks so how fair would that be if SMN had a formidable pet tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by WindyGamer
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07-05-2019, 12:35 PMDyvid
Problem solved:
https://aywren.files.wordpress.com/2...pg?w=845&h=251
FYI: I did the Mage Role Questline from 70 -80 with ilvl 400 gear; no issues.
Ok, well this is what FFXIV's Pet job is... Titan Egi was designed to be a very poor tank, so poor that he couldn't even get enmity in a dungeon when a tank died. So poor he couldn't get enmity back after you finish summoning Bahamut. Egi's have become more important now as pet than anytime in their design.Quote:
Originally Posted by JarenCorax
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07-05-2019, 02:33 PMTimeraiderGaranyi
BLM had drain .. took them 2 expansions to realise that stuff was useless to.
Give them an expansion more and Summoner will lose the physick to :P -
07-05-2019, 06:09 PMTommara
I've been playing MMO's since Everquest was in beta (and MO's before EQ).
Hybrids used to fill a fun niche, before the days of Duty Finders, and the like. People who didn't want to min-max used to be able find a way to a way to level up in old school games, by being able to solo content that min-maxers could not. Min-max (in this context) = a toon that was dedicated solely to only one of dps, tanking, or healing. Hybrid = a toon that could do any combination of dps, tanking, or healing.
Whether right or wrong, the FF14 devs have decided to kill the hybrid choice. That fact is evidenced by their decision to make exp from killing mobs negligible in solo content, (which they did very long ago), since it forces any hybrid wannabe into playing the game their way, i.e., doing group dungeons. Which the FF14 devs have done a stellar job in making. But gives us no other alternative.
And so it leaves no job for hybrids, as the summoner used to be. No point in having a tank pet anymore. No point in being able to heal.
I mourn that loss, but as doing group dungeons is the only viable way to level (and I hope you understand the devs assigned exp to ensure that is so), there is no room for a hybrid in a 4-man group.
And so I think these changes are to make summoners/scholars/archivists, who were all hybrids fit the min-max profile.
Which is actually kind of them, compared to other games where I've been nerfed.
But I really miss games where being a hybrid was a viable choice, instead of being forced to min-max. -
07-05-2019, 08:19 PMCorosar
I personally have been using Physick effectively all the way up to 5.0 Hell i even went out of the way to get Eureka gear so i could pentameld Mind Materia 6's and bring my physick up to a point where i could actually use it in situations. Throwing off 6k (9k on crit) physicks felt good as a summoner. There have been many of times where that has saved a raid due to the healer going down and not having a redmage, All the healers going down so while they are being ressed i am able to hold ground, or hell if we lose the healer outright due to a disconnect and have to hold for a short period of time. With the removal of Main stat materia (minus Piety) Physick is no longer able to be viable. I stand with the people that want physick to be at least somewhat useful here.
Also i noticed someone mentioning the removal of resurrection as well and topaz. I have to state that Topaz is my main carbuncle. If it was not for people flipping their shit every time online i would have used it more. I like the changes of Topaz. Means i can keep myself going and be available for back-up ressurections of healers. The shield is not strong sure but it does enough to keep me going till the healer is back on their feet.
Besides. If you really want to DPS with a summoner. You really would not be harmed by physick being actually useful now would you? it just be another ability you can freely ignore. But for those of us that actually want it to be useful. It gives us a bit more ability to customize ourselves a little bit more than the game currently allows. A bit of a freedom to enjoy doing something else. Besides. A summoner with a proper working physick. is still no where near as strong as a Red mage with their Vercure. no matter what anyone says. Dualcasting makes redmage the better Red healer right now.
TL: DR if we have the ability. why not make it viable. For those Summoners that don't want physick. There is a simple answer for you. Don't put it on your grid. Keep resurrection. Its always good to have contingencies like Verraise and Resurrection. Topaz indirectly tanks now and that is a major change that people are gonna have to figure out. Removing it just adds to the list of things that prevent summoner players from having choices.
Summoners in FF history has always been a very supportive or powerhouse like depending on what you summon. Why is that a bad thing? don't use physick if it ever does get fixed later if you really need to get DEM DEEPS