I personally love the new SMN. My biggest gripes in 4.0 were the long set up for Bahamut and the lack of quick AoE options outside of Dreadwyrm and Ark Morn. They Fixed both and gave us Ark Morn 2.0 (Pheonix) :D.
I can't think of anything to complain about, it is very well done.
What are your thoughts
What are your first impression of SMN?
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07-02-2019, 04:01 AMOmegaSinXWhat are your first impression of SMN?
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07-02-2019, 04:09 AMRoda
That they need to divvy up how they deliver information about our class's mechanics and timings.
I don't dislike the motions of the class, but I do dislike the fact that every interaction with the class's mechanics boils down to watching a bunch of timers tick down.
Also there's like a bunch of threads on this already. -
07-02-2019, 04:10 AMRyoXander
I haven't tried it yet as I have been busy lvling DNC but now I'm excited to try it out. :)
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07-02-2019, 04:24 AMOmegaSinXQuote:
Originally Posted by Roda
The only thing I specifically watch timers on is Dreadwyrm/Pheonix and Tri-Disater. The other things I mitigate with Macros so they are baked into my rotation. -
07-02-2019, 06:23 AMRodaI do not find macros to be all that useful in combat situations, and I don't think it's very good design to require the players to program ways to make the class's information more digestible when it should be baked into the class by default.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaSinX
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07-02-2019, 06:24 AMGallusI don't know if this was changed, but last time I checked adding macros in your GCDs gives you a spell queue delay (or however you want to call it...) that results in a pretty severe DPS loss, so you might not want to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaSinX
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07-02-2019, 07:00 AMChaoticCrimson
Honestly, I think the current incarnation of SMN has far less need of macros than the previous, and this is speaking as someone who plays with a controller. Previously, I used macros to let DWT and Summon Bahamut to share a button to save some room on my hotbars, as well as others to help for Shadow Flare/pet placement. Since we've lost so many buttons between job actions, pet actions, and role actions, I have room to spare on my hotbars, and the only macro I've kept is one that simply moves my pet to a target's position, and even then it's less necessary for me as before I usually only needed to bother positioning Garuda in trials/raids to make sure Aerial Blast was in range. With Ifrit going back to the primary single-target pet at melee range, he'll be sticking close to my target anyway, so it's more of a precaution to keep that macro. I'm not super fond of macros anyway, as they can be clunky and less responsive, so I'm glad I don't have to rely on them as much now.
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07-02-2019, 07:13 AMEloahI like the new SMN. I'm leveling it since I'm scared of how I'll perceive SCH with all its changes, but at least this way I can still playtest SCH. Anyway, the new SMN feels a bit more fluid, and while the consolidated pet actions may not work for SCH they work well on SMN. They are basically, still weavable skill, just in your own kit not a separate one. All that being said though, I agree with this sentiment, there are a lot of CDs to monitor now. But with a decent set up it's manageable, if not only mildly confusing. At least now SMN has no awkward phases, single target and AoE are on equal footing now, yes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Roda
Also I love how they implimented the Egi-assault skills and the new Enkindle. They actually switch depending on which Summon is used. That's the way it always should have been. Now you can use your favorite carbuncle all the time.
It's all Toby (Topaz Carbuncle) all the time.
My one gripe with the Egis would be Titan. Could his Earthen Armor skill get a regen effect. He's not bad for solo play, since he combines AoE and single target, but right now it best to just summon him cast the skill then swap to either Garuda or Ifrit. Plus Physick, need I say more. -
07-02-2019, 07:17 AMOmegaSinXThank you for the heads up, I'll have to look into this. If there is a delay, I have not noticed it. I set up my MACROs to play SMN like a fighting game; Even if there is a slight delay, I may still continue using them since that slight delay will be better than my reaction time when I have to deal with a bazillion buttons. Since the release of 5.0, I'm still topping DPS charts in parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallus
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07-02-2019, 07:44 AMBarta
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07-02-2019, 08:27 AMNemekhThat's not a justification for their merit, that's just confirmation bias. Macros are incredibly bad for their inability to queue sensibly. You would be much better off not using them for such. We had a summoner in The Balance back in Sigmascape who played exclusively with macro'd gcds. The moment we encouraged her to play regularly, her dps went up considerably. Why? Her gcd uptime was that much better. Her ogcds went off on time rather. There was a lack of cumulative delays.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaSinX
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07-02-2019, 03:39 PMKinkyJalepeno
I want my tank pet back - everything else is fine.
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07-02-2019, 11:26 PMSinh119
It’s an incredibly busy job, a lot of double weaving going on and for people with high ping I imagine the job is a nightmare currently. At 80 though it’s very satisfying to get everything right, even if you aren’t doing insane amounts of damage just successfully managing everything effectively feels like a feat in and of itself. If I had to complain about something it would be that before level 72 the job is really tedious to play in my opinion. Roulettes can be pretty annoying to do sometimes because the job just doesn’t feel complete without Phoenix/ Phoenix Trance.. I like it, although I’m not sure if I like it more than Stormblood. I’ll have to wait until my FC finishes the story to try it out in some of the extreme fights.
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07-03-2019, 12:32 AMxXAzurePrimeXx
I fell in love with it from the moment I unlocked Phoenix Trance onward. We have really great aoe options and it's a super busy job which I love. You're always casting something and weaving ocds. Also summoning Phoenix feels really rewarding and satisfying.
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07-03-2019, 12:36 AMadamswagem
but you get out damaged by face roll jobs and we have to juggle GCD, OCD and pet skills that sometimes dont even work correctly and punish you if you cast too much XD
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07-03-2019, 01:21 AMRakith
Love it so far. Very busy, hope DPS will follow (i'm 77). Never used tank pet (my chocobo is my shield), so idc about titan egi. Look forward to being 80 now. Seems that rotation may vary from one player to another which mean we're not tied to one unique rotation anymore. Experts will maybe confirm that.
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07-03-2019, 01:38 AMTwylaFoxSo far as I'm concerned, they've pretty much made lower levels unplayable. Migrating from WoW, I landed on Summoner because it had shown itself to be a close cousin to Warlock - summoning different demons/pets/minions/etc to function in different roles.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaSinX
Titan was essentially a Voidwalker - a tanking pet to help keep mobs' agro while you burn them down - but SE somehow got the 'brilliant' notion to REMOVE all of Titan's tanking abilities.
I've since spent my days futzing about with other classes/jobs, hoping SE gets their head out of their backside and fixes this. -
07-03-2019, 01:49 AMElgeron
Very fun class, love how busy it is. The animations of the new spells look great, weaving spell is fun. Seems there may be some problems for what I gather on the forums with having too much weaving, but for now I can't say I can complaint. Wish Titan was more useful, having its shield sharing a recast time with the other Egi's attack is pretty counter-productive, specially considering that is kind of slow to use. Can't speak to much at lower levels sadly, so won't give much of an opinion there.
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07-03-2019, 01:51 AMNoalleGospellI've never understood some people's obssesion with Titan-Egi, I've been maining SMN since 2.2(ish) and have never needed to use it. You can just nuke enemies before being in danger of dying, unless your pulling way more enemies than you should be able.Quote:
Originally Posted by TwylaFox
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07-03-2019, 01:49 PMTaranokDon't forget that Titan's claim to fame in challenge content was that Titan-egi could cheese Ramuh Extreme. Outside of a few very niche, often exploitative examples of content running, Titan-egi was never needed to run content unless you flat out didn't know what you were doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoalleGospell
The current Titan could be deleted and I wouldn't care. The barrier is awful for actual challenge content (competes directly with damage, won't have Titan out when you need it, won't have charges when you need it, etc) and Titan itself otherwise serves absolutely no purpose. It's a bad Ifrit that gives up a lot of damage to have a really powerful shield.
The entire egi system probably should just be scrapped with the essence of egis at a class level be reworked into ARC/SMN in other ways, such as your first "trance" rotation being to summon the egis temporarily, which transitions into summoning demi-ifrit/ruda/titan, which transitions into summoning demi-bahamut, and finally phoenix is added in.
All the while you can take older, outdated primals (or egis) and throw them into a separate button or system where you temporarily summon them as DoTs so you can thematically feel like a summoner and feel like, as you get stronger, you can "trivially" summon weaker demi-primals between summoning the powerhouses.
Just my thoughts though. -
07-04-2019, 12:27 AMloreleidiangeloIt was helpful for finishing hunt log targets several levels above what your current level was...that's about it. Soloing A ranks with enough gear too, maybe. Tbh I wish Titan didn't sacrifice so much base potency just for the shield, because I think the shield is a cool concept but it's hard to justify using him outside of niche situations even when doing solo play.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoalleGospell
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07-04-2019, 02:16 PMStormblessed9000While I understand that having a pocket tank is very nice (I also played a warlock back in vanilla WoW), no other class needs one to clear content. Without it, summoners aren't worse at doing content than other comparable DPS classes, especially since everyone gets a chocobo to heal them anyway. If summoners are unplayable, then so are every other DPS besides maybe RDM.Quote:
Originally Posted by TwylaFox
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07-04-2019, 03:34 PMYandere-chan
I think aside from Titan's Egi Assault 1 not triggering Ruin IV (it absolutely should and seems more like an oversight than intentional), his shield is really nice for easing into a fight and learning it. Her partner mains white mage, and when we do content for the first time, or if others are really pressing her for heals, I like to use Titan for his shields to absorb undodgable aoes and such to make her job a bit easier. The difference in dps isn't really that bad since most of your damage comes directly from you. The shields do really add up too. You start out with essentially 40% extra hp and get an extra 20% every 30 seconds on top of that.
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07-04-2019, 03:40 PMTwylaFoxIt could just be that I'm mucking about with lower levels but mobility is a big factor. Melee DPSers (even Tanks) can bounce around like ferrets on crack without compromising their efficacy; Archers/Bards can strafe on the run; etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormblessed9000
This leaves the straight-up casters.
Scholar has similar issues when soloing (weak DPS - base potency 80) but is compensated with massive healing abilities - while Conjurer/White Mage and Astrologian have similar standing, their DPS potency (140/150) is nearly double that of Arcanist/Summoner. The only other straight-up DPS caster is Thaumaturge/Black Mage, whose DPS potency (180) is even greater still.
(And relying in choco-heals can be a major trap, particularly as they get shunted from all instances/duties - including the many solo duties which arise during normal questing/leveling.) -
07-04-2019, 09:32 PMDaethirI tried to play with Titan for a bit when I unlocked it but I would always take the aggro back after like 3 spell, I don't get this forum love for Titan it was nearly useless. Imo they made low level SMN feel A LOT better, they get their core spell much earlier now, it's nice to have some additional button to press in leveling roulette, before it was Miasma > Bio > Ruin > Ruin > Ruin > Ruin > Ruin > Ruin > Ruin > Ruin > Ruin > Ruin > Ruin ...Quote:
Originally Posted by TwylaFox
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07-04-2019, 10:28 PMKyoheiI also love the changes they made. Titan not being a tank pet anymore scared me at first but it's working very well in the end, if not better than before coupled with chocobo. The job is way more fun to play than clunky SB smn.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaSinX
Also, compared to some other jobs, low level SMN is not as boring while running past expansions content. A very pleasing surprise.
My only issue is pet's lack of feedback, aside from seeing it next to you in the world, you have no feedbacks whatsoever for the pets. This is something they should try to fix imo because they put dots on ennemies and it's not displayed anywhere else but on the pet itself, meaning you have to keep a focal on the pet if you want feedbacks.
Might be edgy to say this but maybe they should just make trances out of titan/garuda/ifrit. Instead of summoning, switching from trances to trances and executing the primal-trances assault instead of egi's assault. That way the smn can have all the feedbacks instead of them being on an HUD invisible entity. -
07-04-2019, 10:47 PMJarenCorax
Summoner was barely a pet class when I started playing. Now it isn't at all; there's no trading of aggro, and the pet's abilities might as well just be the summoner's own. You don't even get info on what the pet will do in the tooltips for egi assault 1 & 2, and you can't even put the pet abilities on the hotbar just to have them available. I've unsubbed for now because the class is no longer any fun to play. It isn't a question of viability as others have discussed in other threads, it's a matter of how the class feels.
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07-05-2019, 09:45 AMStormblessed9000Moving does absolutely nothing. The enemy will follow you and hit you just as much. The only things that can actually be dodged are the targeted ground AoEs and casters can dodge those just as well as melee. Some of them let melee DPS step to the side and continue doing damage but others force you to step back, favoring ranged jobs like summoner.Quote:
Originally Posted by TwylaFox
As for solo instance duties, those are usually incredibly easy and often have healer NPCs to help you as well. Again, classes with worse survival tools than summoners titan shield are able to clear them easily. -
07-06-2019, 10:00 AMNemekhIt's intentional per Japanese tooltips for only EA Attacks to result in Ruin IVs. The shield's not an attack. It's not specified in the English. But that's just more on the fact that non-JP tooltips are woefully lacking in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yandere-chan
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07-06-2019, 12:02 PMTaranokMoving helps, the enemy won't hit you just as much, as every time it attacks, it stops, then it has to "reacquire" you and run towards you, back into melee, and attack again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormblessed9000
This slight stuttering that enemies do from movement actually can drop your overall incoming damage by 20-50%, and works wonders in dungeons if the tank dies since you can pop sprint, run around, and give the healer time to keep you up or get the tank up instead of you just collapsing into a pile of meat in 2 seconds from attacks.
So don't discount movement, it's obscenely powerful to reduce incoming damage. You are correct that the enemy will still hit you, but not while it's catching up, which takes an extra half second or so to do. -
07-06-2019, 11:33 PMNyoraii
Horrible, it feels weak and super busy, it feels like I'm pressing a bunch of buttons and none of them do much.
Half the skills could be merged into others so we don't have the bloat we have right now and I'm not even at max lvl.
Also without Titan tanking, summoner feels bad to play solo. With my WAR I can solo kill about 5-6 mobs of the same level alone, with SMN I can barely survive 1.
After I get max level on my SMN I'll just stop playing it, it feels horrible to play. -
07-07-2019, 12:36 AMTaranok
I would like to point out that you shouldn't be comparing Summoner to Warrior. All of the tanks can do ridiculously strong pulls compared to any DPS, and moving between Black Mage and Summoner feels "about the same" in terms of overall squishiness regardless of Titan-egi. Which is to say that DPS is just squishy, tanks are not. SMN has a lot of problems, but having their tank pet removed is not one of them. At least in open world stuff.