ShB relic?

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07-02-2019, 03:26 AM
ToniRomo

ShB relic?

Did they ever say how the ShB relic will work? Eureka II ? Old method ?
07-02-2019, 03:48 AM
CazzT

I sure hope it works like Eureka!!! ---said no one ever. But considering how "successful" Eureka was, I would expect it to be done like that again.

(( protip: you can't shove a bunch of stuff into one piece of bad content and then call it a success because lots of people do that content since that's the only way to get certain things ))
07-02-2019, 03:55 AM
Arngrim_Greyashe

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

I sure hope it works like Eureka!!! ---said no one ever. But considering how "successful" Eureka was, I would expect it to be done like that again.

(( protip: you can't shove a bunch of stuff into one piece of bad content and then call it a success because lots of people do that content since that's the only way to get certain things ))

Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean many others didn't. Overall, it was successful.
07-02-2019, 03:56 AM
Nerfworthy

I remember reading/hearing something in one of the interviews that Diadem would be reused in some way, and I'm guessing that would be for the new ShB relics. :X
07-02-2019, 04:07 AM
CazzT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean many others didn't. Overall, it was successful.

It was overwhelmingly disliked. Read what I wrote again. You can't call something successful when it's the only source of certain items, thereby forcing players to participate in that content. It's not about whether I, personally, liked or disliked it. Which, you'll notice, I didn't specify which camp I fall into.
07-02-2019, 04:15 AM
Arngrim_Greyashe

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

It was overwhelmingly disliked. Read what I wrote again. You can't call something successful when it's the only source of certain items, thereby forcing players to participate in that content. It's not about whether I, personally, liked or disliked it. Which, you'll notice, I didn't specify which camp I fall into.

It's fairly apparent by your tone and use of words that you didn't like it. Disregarding that, however, many people did enjoy it and it helped to create micro communities within it. For many, it created fond memories. Unless you have hard numbers to show me that it was a failure, I'm going to have a hard time believing you.

Side note: I wouldn't mind Eureka again. Anemos, Pyros, and Hydatos were fun! Pagos was meh.
07-02-2019, 04:23 AM
Auryan

They did say that they were as of 4.5 still thinking of which direction to take it. The developers stated that they preferred the Eureka method and that the old method being boring and unchalleging for them.

I think Diadem is likely tied to the rebuilding of Ishgard content. Or could tie in for both. Who knows?

Personally, I would prefer the Eureka method but can settle for the uninteresting ARR/HW way.
07-02-2019, 04:25 AM
CazzT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

It's fairly apparent by your tone and use of words that you didn't like it. Disregarding that, however, many people did enjoy it and it helped to create micro communities within it. For many, it created fond memories. Unless you have hard numbers to show me that it was a failure, I'm going to have a hard time believing you.

Side note: I wouldn't mind Eureka again. Anemos, Pyros, and Hydatos were fun! Pagos was meh.

Ah, I see. You're one of those that thinks "since some people enjoyed it, that means most people did" while also saying "you claim most people didn't, but without proof, you're a liar". Gotta love not holding yourself to the same level of scrutiny.

By the way, micro communities form even in content that is overwhelmingly disliked. That's not a proof of success. But hey, you believe what you want. The vocal dislike of it on the forums, in the game, on social media... all that must be just an illusion, huh? That's either not evidence or it's time to move the goal post and say it's not enough evidence.

As for my tone, I express dislike for claiming something is a success when you're funnel-forcing players into it. I did some of Eureka. I didn't like nor dislike it. I do not like, however, how they claimed it was a success when the majority of the feedback across multiple sources was negative.

Will the ShB relic be done the same way? I hope not. I hope it isn't like Diadem, either. I would prefer they do something different and new.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

I wouldn't mind another thing like Eureka if they improve on the design on the thing...

The idea behind Eureka itself wasn't bad, just horrible execution.

Maybe if it had less getting one shotted trying to get anywhere while not max level and less focus on FATEs for pretty much everything...

This was my biggest gripe about Eureka.
07-02-2019, 04:27 AM
CaptainLagbeard

I wouldn't mind another thing like Eureka if they improve on the design on the thing...

The idea behind Eureka itself wasn't bad, just horrible execution.

Maybe if it had less getting one shotted trying to get anywhere while not max level and less focus on FATEs for pretty much everything...
07-02-2019, 05:02 AM
Melichoir

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

It was overwhelmingly disliked. Read what I wrote again. You can't call something successful when it's the only source of certain items, thereby forcing players to participate in that content. It's not about whether I, personally, liked or disliked it. Which, you'll notice, I didn't specify which camp I fall into.

To play devil's advocate - How do you know it was overwhelmingly disliked? Because Reddit and the OF? Both only represent a microfraction of the playerbase, and both generally have incredibly biased points of view regarding content or game strategies. The only ones who know if Eureka was a success (to the best of my knowledge) is the devs. They can see how many went into Eureka, how many people completed parts of it, completed all of it, and revisited for more gear. So if the devs say it's a success when they have the data, then it is. If they go in another direction, then it wasnt. But as much as you disagree with Arngrim, neither of you know its a success without those numbers.

Point is if no one can provide those numbers, then its a moot to say "Oh, its a success/failure!" or "Everyone hated/loved the content!"
07-02-2019, 05:14 AM
347SPECTRE

I honestly think the HW relic line was the least nauseating. Haven't done ARR and Eureka reminded me of the first mmo I played. It was grindy, if not more so than eureka. My main issue with content like that is it feels pointless, if it had a more compelling and involved story, then maybe it wouldn't be as bad. Or at least had dailies to make leveling more tolerable instead of a seemingly pointless grind.
07-02-2019, 05:15 AM
Kyomagi

Eureka would be ok if it was only a small part of the overall grind. If it revolves around Eureka 100% again, i'll just farm Primal EX/Tombstone weapons instead.

I'd rather go back to old school relic grinding and farm Garuda HM for lights 2000 times than 100% Eureka
07-02-2019, 05:23 AM
Nezerius

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

It was overwhelmingly disliked. Read what I wrote again. You can't call something successful when it's the only source of certain items, thereby forcing players to participate in that content. It's not about whether I, personally, liked or disliked it. Which, you'll notice, I didn't specify which camp I fall into.

Eureka as a whole wasn't disliked, Pagos was disliked. Anemos was passable, while Pyros was a step in the right direction. Hydatos wasn't really anything to write home about, but plenty of people enjoyed the Baldesion Arsenal.
07-02-2019, 05:27 AM
Doozer

I did ARR and HW relics and I'd much prefer those. I could at least play using normal means (unsynced or duty finder) to do things I needed to do. From what I know about Eureka, I'm glad I never wanted anything that required it.
07-02-2019, 05:31 AM
Arngrim_Greyashe

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

Ah, I see. You're one of those that thinks "since some people enjoyed it, that means most people did" while also saying "you claim most people didn't, but without proof, you're a liar". Gotta love not holding yourself to the same level of scrutiny.

By the way, micro communities form even in content that is overwhelmingly disliked. That's not a proof of success. But hey, you believe what you want. The vocal dislike of it on the forums, in the game, on social media... all that must be just an illusion, huh? That's either not evidence or it's time to move the goal post and say it's not enough evidence.

As for my tone, I express dislike for claiming something is a success when you're funnel-forcing players into it. I did some of Eureka. I didn't like nor dislike it. I do not like, however, how they claimed it was a success when the majority of the feedback across multiple sources was negative.

Will the ShB relic be done the same way? I hope not. I hope it isn't like Diadem, either. I would prefer they do something different and new.

This was my biggest gripe about Eureka.

You made the claim against it, so you are the one that should provide proof. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it wasn't a success. I highly doubt they'd have another planned if it wasn't. They've already stated that they plan to do more eureka like content in the future. Your argument is invalid.
07-02-2019, 05:33 AM
Alucard135

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazzT

Ah, I see. You're one of those that thinks "since some people enjoyed it, that means most people did" while also saying "you claim most people didn't, but without proof, you're a liar". Gotta love not holding yourself to the same level of scrutiny.

By the way, micro communities form even in content that is overwhelmingly disliked. That's not a proof of success. But hey, you believe what you want. The vocal dislike of it on the forums, in the game, on social media... all that must be just an illusion, huh? That's either not evidence or it's time to move the goal post and say it's not enough evidence.

As for my tone, I express dislike for claiming something is a success when you're funnel-forcing players into it. I did some of Eureka. I didn't like nor dislike it. I do not like, however, how they claimed it was a success when the majority of the feedback across multiple sources was negative.

Will the ShB relic be done the same way? I hope not. I hope it isn't like Diadem, either. I would prefer they do something different and new.

This was my biggest gripe about Eureka.

It depends on how you define success. If by success you mean the majority of players liked it (e.g. 50% or more of those who tried it), then by that definition it's not a success. But if you define success as how many players liked it compared to the previous relic, then it is a success. And that's what the numbers we have show us.

By the first definition, all relic quests were not successful. But by the second, Eureka is more successful than HW and ARR relics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToniRomo

Did they ever say how the ShB relic will work? Eureka II ? Old method ?

They did say they will try something with Eureka style. But they also mentioned that they were surprised that there are people that liked HW and ARR relic style. So they might consider both as alternatives (I hope) or a hybrid of the two (I hope not. I don't wanna see Atma or farm dungeons again).
07-02-2019, 05:34 AM
Vahlnir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerfworthy

I remember reading/hearing something in one of the interviews that Diadem would be reused in some way, and I'm guessing that would be for the new ShB relics. :X

I'm pretty sure it will be utilized for the crafting content related to Ishgard which will be coming in 5.1 or later. I'm guessing later.