Just HP stacking on enemies doesn't equate to an increase in difficulty

I just did the first Shadowbringers dungeon and it was utterly tedious:

• Trash packs with way too much HP, especially considering them only having 1 ability at best
• Bosses with too much HP, especially the last one: fighting for several minutes in a normal dungeon seems like overkill - but thankfully he does hurt if the mechanics aren't played properly

Why to companies think that making a HP sponge being able to soak even more damage equates to an increse in difficulty?

It's probably to compensate for the eventual level sync issues the dungeons will face as the expansion goes further into it's patch cycle. It's not my favorite way to increase difficulty but I can see some measure of sense in trying to keep things from being steam rolled the second the first Normal Raids hit the ground like with what happened in HW and SB.

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Originally Posted by Enla

It's probably to compensate for the eventual level sync issues the dungeons will face as the expansion goes further into it's patch cycle. It's not my favorite way to increase difficulty but I can see some measure of sense in trying to keep things from being steam rolled the second the first Normal Raids hit the ground like with what happened in HW and SB.

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This is what I assumed to, the fights do take forever, but the bosses themselves were designed quite well in my opinion. It was one of the more mechanic heavy dungeon fights, I've seen for awhile, especially the first boss.

Using the timer on my dance as a gauge each pull of trash, at least when I was doing it, was about a 1 min - 1 1/2 min long. This is a dungeon where you should DEFINITELY pull big if your DPS know how to AOE, especially dancers.

there is a pack of mobs like 7? holly hell like 2 min using aoes ....i yawned.... the last waves before the last pack? pffff ...too much trash imho

the boss mechanics were fun tho

Maybe you had fail people in your group or people with low ilvl?

The people I was in all had 400 ilvl and I found the mobs just melted, of course it took a bit longer then the last SB dungeons but it was still relatively fast.

Of course I tried to take multiple packs of mobs whenever it allowed for.
Fight or Flight with Total Eclipse - Prominence combo deals quite some damage on trash packs. And the fact of no TP so I can spam it for ages.

Bosses were quite cool and not too much 'bullet sponge'.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

there is a pack of mobs like 7? holly hell like 2 min using aoes ....i yawned.... the last waves before the last pack? pffff ...too much trash imho

the boss mechanics were fun tho

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Then you dont want an MMO obviously.. you want something akin to Monster Hunter and that is NOT this game. I thought the dungeons were perfect to scale. You must not have had any dancers lol

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Originally Posted by Millybonk

I just did the first Shadowbringers dungeon and it was utterly tedious:

• Trash packs with way too much HP, especially considering them only having 1 ability at best
• Bosses with too much HP, especially the last one: fighting for several minutes in a normal dungeon seems like overkill - but thankfully he does hurt if the mechanics aren't played properly

Why to companies think that making a HP sponge being able to soak even more damage equates to an increse in difficulty?

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Are sure because most of the mobs have melted like nothing, and the bosses hp is pretty standard. These dungeon runs take about 15 to 20 mins. Maybe it’s your or your party’s item level, or are you running with trust?

My only Shadowbringers dungeon experience is with the first one (Holminster), but yea, the HP on the trash mobs could be toned down a little, bosses were fine enough. But it is far from the most worst example of that problem that the game has had... I would use Ridorana Lighthouse as a prime example.

Just weeks before the launch of ShB bosses still took forever to die, the hardest thing in that raid was trying to not fall asleep from boredom midfight.

Its ALWAYS like this at the beginning of an expansion. Are you guys even serious anymore?

What? our Group melts mob packs in 30 secs with aoe in ShB dungeons..

I don't know what you're on about, most groups I've been running (any of the) dungeons with melts most of the mobs.

I wouldn't blame the game and instead blame the players on this one.

My group went through it at a decent pace, dunno what to tell you.
It was slower than a typical run in other dungeons, but that was mostly because we were hitting up the enemies one group at a time, which I'm not going to get mad at the tank for doing in a dungeon that's been out for less than a day.

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Originally Posted by Charisma

What? our Group melts mob packs in 30 secs with aoe in ShB dungeons..

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At least on the first one, in my groups, this is true some of the time for some of the pack (roughly 28 seconds left on my dance consistently in certain sections). The pulls with some of the heavier adds take about a minute for the groups I was getting. Was a lot faster when we had some whm participating in the aoe (which is rare).

Just my usual two cent to any topic.

The reason some groups melts some not, is because not everyone is "good". Plus there's DNC and MCH that are two span over other classes in terms of AoE with SHB. With MCH being overly broken rn (At least to me main MCH). If your group had non-aoe centered classes and/or casuls obvsly it will take more than having two good AoE centered classes that knows which buttons to press. There's some run of "the burn" I went as tank that lasted more than 30min, to farm that chest for glamour. Mainly because dps classes couldnt handle a kb/controller. But I didn't made a post on how the burn was overtuned.

OP, this is the second thing you complained about something. Stop it. Just enjoy the story.

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Originally Posted by xXAzurePrimeXx

Its ALWAYS like this at the beginning of an expansion. Are you guys even serious anymore?

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It's NOT ALWAYS like this at he beginning of an expansion. Mobs literally melted in my experience.


Op just had a bad group with low DPS.

You're nowhere close to being able to melt mobs like the end of SB. This same thing happens every expansion, or heck, every patch. Mobs don't melt until your level and gear just outclass everything even with syncing down. Remember A/S ranks when people were just hitting 70? vs just a scant few days ago before Early Access? Sheesh.

I'm surprised dungeon trash still doesn't have any sort of mechanics outside of dodging the telegraphs. There is no focusing one down, there is no interrupting, literally just swap to your "fancy," new "aoe rotation/combo" (did they really make these just for dungeon trash?)...

I don't mind some sponginess at the start since that's the norm and should go away with power creep, but some trash packs could stand to be just a smidgen more interactive; it's not like it needs to be M+ levels of one-shot nonsense, just occasionally something more than "lol, use that AoE rotation on these." I think they're making an effort with the "INTERUPT ME" cast bars, but so far, it's pretty feeble.

Maybe your group dps just sucked?

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Originally Posted by Millybonk

I just did the first Shadowbringers dungeon and it was utterly tedious:

• Trash packs with way too much HP, especially considering them only having 1 ability at best
• Bosses with too much HP, especially the last one: fighting for several minutes in a normal dungeon seems like overkill - but thankfully he does hurt if the mechanics aren't played properly

Why to companies think that making a HP sponge being able to soak even more damage equates to an increse in difficulty?

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things have been going pretty fast for me. maybe you've been teamed up with bad dps?

It's the start of the expansion, they're probly tuned to not be completely faceroll when you sync down to them

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

OP, this is the second thing you complained about something. Stop it. Just enjoy the story.

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Your kind is just so intriguing.

1. It's a public forum
2. No one forced you to read this thread or to even comment
3. Having an opinion equals complaining in your small bubble, and yet you couldn't even formulate a single argument

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Originally Posted by Millybonk

Why to companies think that making a HP sponge being able to soak even more damage equates to an increse in difficulty?

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Technically, it does.

More time spent killing stuff = more chances to fail mechanics.

Hard to mess up mechanics if you don't see them 'cause you zerged through the fight in 0.1s.

That and it gives a sense of difficulty without actually making things mechanically difficult, so that horribad players don't get butthurt when they fail constantly. They just think "Look at how good I am, I defeated this difficult boss that took like 3 hours to beat!"

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Technically, it does.

More time spent killing stuff = more chances to fail mechanics.

Hard to mess up mechanics if you don't see them 'cause you zerged through the fight in 0.1s.

That and it gives a sense of difficulty without actually making things mechanically difficult, so that horribad players don't get butthurt when they fail constantly. They just think "Look at how good I am, I defeated this difficult boss that took like 3 hours to beat!"

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That's assuming the mechanics are are easy to fail. Outside of raid content, you practically have to be AFK for the mechanics to be of any legitimate concern. Stacking HP just means having to barely pay attention for another minute. That's not difficulty.

Making a bullet sponge boss doesn't make the enemy difficult. It just makes them tedious. Tedium is not difficulty. (unless you count "fighting boredom" to be part of the difficulty calculation)

I haven't had a problem tanking as a WAR. Although, with this being a new area & all the changes + the fact that I am no longer in current gear, I have been pulling on 2 packs of mobs.

I dunno, it really doesn't take me all that long to kill a pack of mobs. I don't know about the first dungeon bc I did it with the trust system, but all of the dungeons after I've been massacring pretty quickly. Maybe people are undergeared or still adjusting to class changes? Maybe the mobs won't be that bad once we all know what we're doing and have better gear? Also, I extremely disagree that the dungeons are bad. I actually think they're far better designed than most dungeons that came out of Stormblood.

What I'm basically getting from this, is people want to power through beginning expansion content as if we have last patch cycle power? We're supposed to feel weaker at the beginning of an expansion. Kind of the entire point of rpg growth through the new content.

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Originally Posted by RowanLauron

What I'm basically getting from this, is people want to power through beginning expansion content as if we have last patch cycle power? We're supposed to feel weaker at the beginning of an expansion. Kind of the entire point of rpg growth through the new content.

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I can' speak for others, but this is not what I'm asking for.
I just don't want "damage sponge" to be conflated with "more difficult". Because it's not more difficult. It's more tedious. I'm fine with lower content of a new expansion having higher HP/taking longer to kill when the expansion first drops. I just think it's disingenuous to call that "more difficult".

I agree, we need to be able to one shot all mobs in dungeons at xpac launches going forward- so when we're all geared up, we can half shot them. Go in with a party of fishers and just auto attack clear dungeons.

and the reason you would be running a 71 dungeon when you're all geared up at 80 is what exactly.

Whether mob have too many hp depends on your group dps. Tell that slacker tank and healer to press more buttons, not just the minimum. And get a parser, once it starts working again..used to but broke for me today for some reason :(

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Originally Posted by FFgame

and the reason you would be running a 71 dungeon when you're all geared up at 80 is what exactly.

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Roulette. Helping friends. For fun.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Maybe your group dps just sucked?

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I am starting to agree with this even more. I got a pretty decent group this morning for 'The Qitana Ravel', and we cleared this very fast. Tank was doing large pulls, healer was doing aoe, other dps was using aoe properly, it went by much quicker than when I did it just before. The bosses were relatively quick as well.

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Originally Posted by Millybonk

I just did the first Shadowbringers dungeon and it was utterly tedious:

• Trash packs with way too much HP, especially considering them only having 1 ability at best
• Bosses with too much HP, especially the last one: fighting for several minutes in a normal dungeon seems like overkill - but thankfully he does hurt if the mechanics aren't played properly

Why to companies think that making a HP sponge being able to soak even more damage equates to an increase in difficulty?

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I noticed all of that too. I mean I get that Yoshi wants us healers to heal but as a healer yikes was that a tad bit overkill or what? I'm pretty sure I used every button in my kit and I was still afraid to DPS as numerous times I thought my tank was a dead tank.

Never had any issues with mobs, I love the bosses this far (only done 2 dungeons) and the trash dies at the normal rate.

Sounds like you had dps. Queued up for that dungeon as 74 dragoon and everything in there just melted. Shrug

I don't find any of the dungeons really that 'difficult'. As a tank and brand new to it I tend to do 1-2 packs just because I don't know my way around, or when there's a wall, and whether or not I actually can handle all of them; but even at that pace I've cleared the new dungeons in maybe a little more than 30min or maybe even less, depending on if boss mechanics got us or not. Trash hasn't been an issue thus far, and I just hit 78.

Boss fights for me did not take overly long. And I was able to pull big and burn down the mobs in a reasonable time. While I dont doubt there is HP scaling going on cause its dungeon 1 of the xpac, I didnt feel like it was just an HP scaled up version of SB.

Try to do a min ilv run with any leveling dungeon and you will face the same experience.
It's not different. Everyone is just under-item-lvled.