So ive been watching some streamers lately to see a glimpse of content that im slowly working towards. and ive Came Across several that Were using Damage meters. Seeing FFXIV has a Zero Data mine Tolerance, And that is how they work to function.. is it ok to use a Damage meter , or Parser or not? When i approach people who use them on the matter they say" oh Square Enix doesn't care as long as its used for self improvement, and that its NOT a tos violation.... but its a third party program that data mines the client to get the display Data.. Can i get a SE/ GM Response to this with Crystal Clear Clarity if they Can or cant not be used and if not what path to take to Report the violators?
I thought Damage meters were not allowed?
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06-29-2019, 02:44 PMOCDGamingI thought Damage meters were not allowed?
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06-29-2019, 02:48 PMMingqin
I believe Yoshi was asked about this and his response was basically " Don't ask, don't tell " I don't think SE care too much about it unless you abuse it and start harassing other players.
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06-29-2019, 02:49 PMValkyrie_Lenneth
Even if you did want to report them, they would have to admit it in game. The devs have watched the streams for world first clears, they know they are used.
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06-29-2019, 02:51 PMOCDGamingWhich happens more then not, one streamer i came across tonight was talking about a dungeon run he did and they kicked some one for having crappy dps.. which is what prompted me to Ask in the forums about it.. I still want a SE/GM response thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Mingqin
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06-29-2019, 02:54 PMCorbinDallasYou're not going to get one because Yoshi himself has responded to this topic till he's blue in the face.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDGaming
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06-29-2019, 02:55 PMEnlaIf they do that and state it /in game and in the chat/ then they can be reported. That classifies as harassment if they're open about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDGaming
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06-29-2019, 03:56 PMLeonDalmasca
Yoshi-P on a later interview some time ago stated that as long as you'rent being a dick about it, its not a problem, cannot find the interview but the interviewer asked if he thought about DPS-meters being an unfair advantage, on a raid centered game such as FFXIV parse and fflogs are the only thing that can tell you if you are improving and what you fkd up and when thanks to the log system, SE knows it thus putting it on a certain plan.
I sent myself screen as ban-proof to SE ticket system with Parse up, resulting in the guy I wanted ban, being ban for 10+ days and I didn't even had a warning, I have never ever penalized someone for their dps even when there was savage raiding/extreme trials, i'd go out without saying a thing in the case dps was too bad, I think that's the right approach, bitching at someone playing a game where maybe he has fun that way wouldn't be right with or without parse.
Third party programs that doesn't provide any advantage are on a "Don't ask, Don't tell" plan.
If you ask to GM's they're bound to tell you, "No don't use it" (Even if you're asking about any other third party with even less impact to the game like ReShade). -
06-29-2019, 04:15 PMEndeleon
Honestly even kicking for low DPS doesn't fall under the "don't use it for abuse" umbrella because that can be seen when you watch a person actions anyway. I once got accused of using a DPS meter when I called someone out, but in realy I just had them focus targetted so I could see easily that they weren't even casting anything and their MP never moved. Now if they repeatedly harassed that person saying they are a grey and laughing about their dps numbers around in the game, that does fall under it. I personally don't bother with the DPS meters because I don't like the added CPU usage but I really don't understand what the big fuss is about, if you are pulling your weight, no one cares if you are mediocre unless it's UWU and stuff.
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06-29-2019, 05:34 PMKleeya
The last time i did see a Twitch stream where someone was using a parser, the viewers were making fun of one of the party member, and were even stalking on fflogs and the lodestone all that they could find about him to diss him even more. It was super creepy. The worst thing was that these people were thinking they were right to publicly shame someone so much because he was not of the right color on fflogs.
And after that people wonder why more and more healer keep throwing rocks instead of healing you, or why this rdm apparently dont want to waste a gcd verraising you instead of using it to dps more. -
06-30-2019, 01:09 AMKeddera_StormMoon
Isn't data mining going through game files to dig up stuff that's usually hidden? It's my understanding most Parsers just gather up what's being made visible in the chat logs and displaying it something usable. It's not actually gathering hidden data.
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06-30-2019, 01:13 AMMistakeNot
Technically parsers and damage meters and the like are not allowed, but as long as the people using them keep quiet about it and do not use the results to harass anyone, then SE won't care.
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06-30-2019, 01:16 AMWaterShieldOn the flip side, even if you aren't using one but say that you are in in game chat, you will likely be banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by MistakeNot
They also state that screenshots / video cannot be accepted for proof of anything because it "could be edited". -
06-30-2019, 01:17 AMSakeiThis is correct. The parsers just read and sort information from logs. That's why they aren't against the TOS. They literally don't do a single thing that you can't do yourself. The only issue with parsers are when people are being jerks about it. SE doesn't want you berating people, and kicking them just because their dps isn't as high as you would like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keddera_StormMoon
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06-30-2019, 02:41 AMStarRosieThey actually are against ToS. Collecting data, even publicly available data, such as the logs from fights, from the game with unauthorized third party programs is against ToS. As you can see here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakei
2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.
But again, the devs have taken a "Don't ask, don't tell." stance with this. As long as you aren't being a tool and harassing others, as well as not saying you're actively using one in chat. You're fine. So if you do use them, always air on the side of caution. Like, extreme caution. -
06-30-2019, 02:52 AMCanadane
Squares policies doesn't always align with Yoshidas policies.
But SE writes the cheques, so... -
06-30-2019, 03:49 AMMrKusakabe
Wasn't there a case recently where that one lass pulled in Mordion Gaol for several hours without a GM showing up. Turned out her case was her mentioning in the chat that she is uploading logs - or just merely mentioned it in the group chat and on request - and has been reported for 3rd party pograms by one of the guys in the same group. She mentioned a 10-day ban which is the last step from account termination apparently...
Be careful, and do not encourage people here by talking this danger down...
This player since has been silence and never post again..
Sincerely,
https://imgur.com/kXOfaq9.png -
06-30-2019, 04:12 AMkidalutzHoly Crap you're right I havent seen them post since then.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKusakabe
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06-30-2019, 04:19 AMValkyrie_LennethThey aren't banned. You lose the medals next to your name when that happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidalutz
They just haven't been posting. like 99% of the playerbase. -
06-30-2019, 06:05 AMFhaerronQuote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
Not to mention Square Enix linking streams of worlds first proggers and every single person had a meter in their screen.
Also @ op, take a look at the website with all the FFXIV mods (there are quite some), and take a look how many people are using the nude mods and the mods for hairstyles and whatnot, that's probably used a lot more then the DPS meter, especially on Balmung and the like.
So, are mods allowed? No, they are not.
Are people using them? Yes, and a lot of people are using them.