Feedback on 5.0 PvP changes

Dear dev team,

first of all I would like to thank you guys for not forgetting about PvP and keep pushing forward to make PvP better.
My feedback will only take Feast into consideration. Not Frontlines/Rival Wings.

The gameplay now is much more fast-paced. That's pretty good. More kills happen and that's what you guys were aiming for.

We did set up some custom matches with players from the top teams on EU.
It's great we got a few more skills now and seeing old skills making a return is also good.
Unfortunetely you picked the wrong skills for healers in our opinion.
Healers don't need damage skills. Healers can barely keep up with the damage output right now and once protect is thrown out onto a target, the enemy will just burst down another target. There's no chance for healers to compensate.
Like give back Tetra and Benediction to WHM.

We had matches where 8 kills within 2 minutes happened.

Now to the most important point. You removed tank stance from all the tanks.
That was a really bad change to say the least. You're no longer able to protect the medals. I know you gave us rampart (old safeguard) and reprisal but that's doing nothing. People will just wait out and burst after. The whole purpose of being a tank is gone.

Another thing I don't understand is why we are not able to remove Blood For Blood manually by clicking it off or command/macro. Same goes for cover.

I hope more people will give their feedback and you guys gonna think about it before you start next The Feast season.

Also bring back the old maps and a map rotation.

Thumbs that up guys so dev see it

Sounds like good feedback (altough I had plenty of time to spam dps skill when playing in the very low tier of people not knowing how to play :p)

Maybe the dps skill are more oriented for "low tier", I dunno.

Just make PvP how it was in 2.0 but keep the simplified combos.

I haven't had much time to mess around with things yet, but I have played a bit on WAR and one change I'd like to propose is to allow the usage of Nascent Flash without a target. I think it'd be a fair change, since it still has a 30 second cooldown, choosing to use it for yourself in Feast would mean depriving your team of that extra utility, so it'd come at a cost. The main issue is that in frontline if you're solo for whatever reason, you basically have a dead skill that should serve as your survivability.

PLD without self heal feels really weird to me now..

Is dark tbn useable without target? Seems unfair other tanks losing all of their self heals and dark being able to self bubble.

Id like to see nascent flash useable without target in pvp.

Agree with Oli's points.

I very much appreciate the change to PvP to be a lot more fast paced and having more kills go through. SB PvP felt like a bit of a slugfest to me, and this push to higher-risk higher-reward gameplay is something that I want SE to retain going forwards. Props to the team for taking PvP in this direction, as it's a lot more exciting. I'm a bit of a rookie, but I really want to emphasise this, as it has made PvP more engaging.

The additional changes were also welcome; there's a lot of variety to be had in additionals now that simply didn't exist before and this is a step forwards.

As much as I believe the pacing is moving in the right direction though, I'm not sure it works very well with the current system. As it stands, picking up medals feels redundant at times. Tanks just explode without tank stance at higher stacks which makes it really hard to defend medals after kills. Why get 50 medals if in 20 seconds you'll drop 75? I like that tanks are a more realistic target now, but with medals its a bit too much.

Perhaps giving skills like Tetra back, or re-adding tank stance (maybe slightly adjusted given the HP increase?) would go a long way at letting teams hold medals. Really though, the most feasible alternative would be with the medal system, and I think this is the easiest thing to adjust. It has to be reworked to fit in with the explosiveness of PvP as it is. The explosiveness isn't bad mind you (again, I want to emphasise this), but the system that surrounds it likely needs changes to suit it better. Perhaps reduce the damage modifiers on it? There just isn't much encouragement in stacking medals early.

All of these add up as well with how tight and constrained the map is currently. With no AoE damage falloff (which certainly does change things up a little and is quite exciting), kiting through corridors is a death sentence to a team. A map rotation could help mix up the way AoE is used in PvP and would really freshen up future seasons, such as having some small maps with plenty of corridors, other large maps with walls, etc.

One thing I'd differ though is that the greater emphasis on healers being able to help with damage (like Dia/Biolysis debuff esp) is a welcome change. I think having damage skills isn't bad... but they have to be worth using. If using a damage skill means your teammates die, it isn't always worth it. Who knows, maybe slapping on a cooldown and making some of them OGCD could help? Striking a middle ground between pure healing and some offensive support capability would be nice.

I'm still a rookie so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I feel ShB's pacing is a definite improvement. With adjustments though, it could be even better.

Tank self sustain got destroyed...but their burst dos went up. All tanks probably need to get rampart now if theyre trying to be competitive.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

I haven't had much time to mess around with things yet, but I have played a bit on WAR and one change I'd like to propose is to allow the usage of Nascent Flash without a target. I think it'd be a fair change, since it still has a 30 second cooldown, choosing to use it for yourself in Feast would mean depriving your team of that extra utility, so it'd come at a cost. The main issue is that in frontline if you're solo for whatever reason, you basically have a dead skill that should serve as your survivability.

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Not even solo. Cant even use Nascent Flash on alliance members. Should totally be usable without target for pvp...

They're going to have to do a nerf to the range of Dancers huh? They are the new bard of PVP and the worst thing is that they are even more broken

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Originally Posted by Nayout

They're going to have to do a nerf to the range of Dancers huh? They are the new bard of PVP and the worst thing is that they are even more broken

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Uh bard isn't a good PVP class since melee was buffed 15% months ago and still stands true in 5.0. Mch Brd Smn Blm are the trash dps PVP jobs. Where you been lol. (NO seriously, maybe you missed that update, ranged = no no for anyone taking pvp seriously)

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Originally Posted by UnrealTai

Uh bard isn't a good PVP class since melee was buffed 15% months ago and still stands true in 5.0. Mch Brd Smn Blm are the trash dps PVP jobs. Where you been lol. (NO seriously, maybe you missed that update, ranged = no no for anyone taking pvp seriously)

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Ranged is fine. I love new pvp actually. You can actually kill stuff now.

Just played a few games of feast myself.
while i like the changes that makes the jobs feel very offensive, they've completely killed survivability and as a tank main i feel i can do very little to help my team survive now, no tank stance has made me a squishy target when picking up medals and new healers generally struggle with the amount of damage going out now. the current state of feast wont support the changes and makes it a chaotic slog with what felt like no strategy other than "just hit this guy till he dies", just didn't feel really fun with how medals work and would really like them to be changed or even removed. If no major changes are to be made to feast i feel as if i'm going to struggle enjoying it as much as i used too and i think a lot of regular players will feel the same way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UnrealTai

Uh bard isn't a good PVP class since melee was buffed 15% months ago and still stands true in 5.0. Mch Brd Smn Blm are the trash dps PVP jobs. Where you been lol. (NO seriously, maybe you missed that update, ranged = no no for anyone taking pvp seriously)

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I can't speak for the Feast as I don't play that mode, but this is most certainly false in Frontlines.

I mostly play Frontlines feast was never my scene maybe this expansion ill try it more, mostly because of queue times and the amount of win trading cheaters and the gauge of skill was way off because low population.

However from the frontline perspective: ((I have over 66% win rate in over 590 games.))

Casters
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RDM: Its engagement shield needs to be buff or it will be murdered in a second when it goes into melee A tier

SMN: Quite pathetic it just needs overall potency buffs. And it feels super clunky B/C tier

BLM: AMAZING SSS tier.

Range - --
DNC: It got nerf still amazing En Avant is a pvp oriented skill like no other SSS tier

MCH: Remove the suicidal mechanic on Drill pls..... and just buff it or change it A tier

BRD: meh on the dots wish they just lasted 60sec tbh A tier

Tanks
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GNB: NEEDS a nerf SSS tier

WAR: not enough personal data S tier

DRK: not enough personal data SS tier

PLD: S tier still a tank.

Melee
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DRG > A
SAM > S
NIN > S

MNK got deleted naww JK but it needs buffs. / not enough data cause no one is playing it A/B tier

Healers
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AST - amazing SSS tier
SCH - C/B meh it just feels bad to play compare to the other two
WHM SSS tier - actually think WHM needs a slight nerf