It may be a little premature to negatively comment on HQ results, but I have to say, so far on my new, end-game accessories, I'm 0/4, all with > 80% success rate, and, of course, I'm 0/4 on double downs.
Now, this could be just my lousy luck, or it could be something else. I'd be curious to know if others are experiencing the same sort of thing. I have not had this issue at all with materials HQ's.
Gathering HQ materials is painful enough, only to experience this degree of failure, against the odds, is discouraging, to say the least. I wish I had this sort of reverse success with my double stacked melds.
HQ Result
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03-12-2012, 12:28 AMzzappHQ Result
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03-12-2012, 12:43 AMRuri
I had a few HQ's where it was near 50-60 without needing to try double down. So It's probably just bad luck on your part. I think its a decent system.
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03-12-2012, 03:07 AMUrthdigger
You must be fairly lucky. failing four times in a row with 80% success rate is possible, it's a 0.16% chance, but it's still possible.
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03-12-2012, 06:02 AMLumidus
I've HQ'd at 40% 2/3 times and 70%+ haven't failed to HQ.
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03-15-2012, 05:47 AMLordWhimsey
Actually Urth, the statistical probability of failing 4 times in the manner described is .0041% - you forgot to multiply by the probability of failure on the double down (assume median of 40% DD from an 80 HQ chance - .2^4 x .4^4 x 100 to convert to % or just .08^4 X 100
Just saying - I agree it is ridiculous to fail 4x in a row on an 80%+ HQ. New crafting system has been frustrating thus far. -
03-18-2012, 11:03 PMzzapp
Having now a much broader base to call upon in attempting HQ synths, I maintain SE's success probability rates are grossly out to lunch. This is not only my observation, but shared by other crafters in my group as well.
I continuously and consistantly fail at roughly a 50% (estimate) rate HQ attempts, both materials and finished goods, @ 80/85/90 as high as 96%. Eventually, it becomes evident that this cannot be attributed solely to 'bad luck'.
I find it very disheartening to spend 5-6 hours mining HQ electrum ores, only to have these, more frequently than not, blow up @ 85% ish.
I'm still curious if others are experiencing this same sort of fairlure rate. Further, I ask if the development team would be kind enough to take a look at this to ensure the math and the coding are working as intended. -
03-18-2012, 11:06 PMOnji_T
As far as accessories go I've synthed 5/5 +1 rings and a +1 necklace all with a 80-92% chance of hq, none of those even needed a double down. I can't comment on it as a whole though because those are the only things I've tried to hq, haha.
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03-19-2012, 02:08 AMMadruk
I don't think I've ever seen a Zzap post where he wasn't complaining about crafting.
18 out of 20 with 80%+ Qual resulted in a +1 for me. -
03-19-2012, 02:23 AMPeptaru
I've had a bad run or two, i broke an over 80% cobalt winglet on double down and an over 70% on double down, etc etc
Regardless of what the chance of failing high % things repetitively is.... its like playing roulette, you bet on black, it was red... this happens five times in a row..... so now black is "DUE"! its still just 50/50 though.
It sucks that you feel victim to that ~20% or whatever each time, but its still a 20% chance to get nq regarless of how many times in a row it happens lol. -
03-19-2012, 07:29 AMMister-Wonderful
I am having no problems with HQ. I dont even bother farming HQ mats because with the right abilities and timing, I have been making HQ materials and jewelry from NQ materials. Gotten as high as 30 percent chance from NQ mats on finished products.
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03-19-2012, 09:28 AMzzappDude, if you're referring to my post about not liking Perfection nerf this patch in regards to duration loss, you're right - that is a complaint. Any other complaints I'm forgetting about? So 2 complaints make me a chronic bitcher?Quote:
Originally Posted by Madruk
I don't make too many posts, mostly when I have a question, or when I can answer someone else's question.
In this particular instance, I'm making a simple observation - in roughly 25 HQ synths since the patch, I'm failing close to 50% of my synths in the 85% ish range. At some point, that becomes more than a red/black scenario. Others in my LS have shared similar luck. So all I asked was, are others seeing similar, negative results - nothing more, nothing less. Kindly view it as a 'curiosity' more than a 'complaint'. In any event, it appears, based on most posts here, that I, alone, am afflicted with this curse of bad luck. Regards. -
03-19-2012, 11:37 AMPeptaru
It never becomes more than red/black, somewhere there is a person who is 100% on all synths at the percentage you're breaking at.... 15% failure rate is always going to be 15%. It does suck when one person has to eat all the fails, for once its not me and that makes me smile :P
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03-19-2012, 07:58 PMMister-Wonderful
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t216/TKres16/lol.png
Bawce. NQ mats. Made Boar leather x3 -
03-20-2012, 03:16 AMShosasosa
i knew u were gonna find a spot to put this
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03-20-2012, 03:35 AMScarface
2/2 on Cobalt Haubergeon (60% HQ chance, had to double down once)
12/15 on HQ Jewelry (3 broke on double down with 50-70%)
18/39 on HQ Electrum ingots (using NQ ore, getting roughly 12-30% chance)
3/5 on Boar leather using 1 hide, and 1 HQ Alumin (sp?) -
03-20-2012, 03:47 AMPeptaru
Are we supposed to be impresed or something? You don't offer an opinion, just numbers, and if all your crafts are fifty then those are pretty abysmal numbers considering available abilities and predicted quality increases per action..... anyway....
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03-20-2012, 03:52 AMScarfaceNo one is bragging just stating what I've gotten. (Far from a lot of synths, but gives an idea, at least to me.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peptaru
I've broken things at 90%+ but it was like Ash Square Shields +1. HA.
Obviously you have some type of troll problem, and don't understand the first thing about the new crafting system. Please kick rocks. -
03-20-2012, 03:54 AMReinheart
All of you getting HQ's are you guys 50 on most crafting jobs or any of you out there that have just one crafting job to 50 and say rest if 0-10 and still getting HQ?
I just posted on JP side but I remember YoshiP saying if you use HQ mats it will most likely be 100% result
I like how it starts off at quality 500 and HQ rate starts from there (actually 300) but like me if I try to make something below or my current level using HQ mats the highest HQ% I can get is maybe 25%.
Used Mythril Ingot +1 and Toadleather+1 to try and make the neck piece for my Gladiator, 4 tries and all 4 times it didn't HQ. (My Gold is 36 so maybe it's too low, but still was thinking there was a chance since it's HQ mats...)
Now if I was Lv50 this should be no problem + if I had abilities from other crafting jobs sure it will help but looking from say a new player leveling crafting doing maybe 1 crafting alone and maybe lv20-30's for other crafting it's pretty damn hard to HQ something at same level even when using HQ mats. -
03-20-2012, 03:58 AMScarfaceQuote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
Yes, all 50's. Having all +1 mats still doesn't GUARANTEE it, but pretty high chance as you can see from the minimal crafts I've done on higher level synths.
Still needs some more work on it though. -
03-20-2012, 03:58 AMPeptaruLord you're dumb, i'm all over the new crafting. I craft all day while posting in here, but at least you proferred a little to say this time, good job! this is called talking! to be fair you've been this way for 10 years now, so i don't expect much aside from "everyone is a troll, you just jealous, why you mad brah?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface
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03-20-2012, 04:01 AMScarfaceStill didn't offer opinions, or suggestions, however now you're happy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peptaru
Seems like you wanted attention. Must be a 1.20 player. Remember you're the one who came on here trolling and derailing the thread. See above. -
03-20-2012, 04:05 AMPeptaruI'm not a 1.2 player, and change offa the subject of your post histories, they're all about someone bein a troll or about you tryin to make yourself seem cool somehow.... i'm happy that at least you said something other than what you just repeated again... everyone (but you i guess? lmao) is a troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface
I found a recipe that doesn't like to complete for me just now OP, its about 5 levels above me which should be managable but its just bein a piece of poo to me, maybe you just found a recipe that dislikes you for whatever reason like i just did! have you tried other recipes around the same level range? -
03-20-2012, 04:07 AMOrophinI haven't played around with HQs much, but I imagine with all HQ mats there will still be a degree of difficulty based on your level vs the level of the item you're making. Level 50s can still have some issues HQing items in the 51-60 category for Lodestone recipes. (I think the highest level item is only 53-54 IIRC)Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
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03-20-2012, 04:08 AMScarfaceHalf the people on the forums post more than they play. Wont bother posting in this thread again, see you at Chimera, Pepper. Wait no I won't lawl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peptaru
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03-20-2012, 04:12 AMPeptaru
Thanks for proving my point as you exit, later.
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03-20-2012, 04:33 AMReinheartYep with current it's like that but only reason I was wondering why it was changed to this way was because YoshiP said previously for some gears it requires previous gear as material so by using all HQ material they will make it so it's close to 100% chance of HQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
Pretty sure there was official translation on this one, can't find it from this post (JP): http://goo.gl/K8p7b
But then again that's from August 2011 so I guess lots of things changed since then lol.
I have no problem with the current system just felt the direction YoshiP mentioned then and now was different. -
03-20-2012, 04:38 AMAirget
Rate of HQ can definitely be related to the classes you lv. I mainly focus on standard and careful boost while synthing switching between the two while crafting and always working not to fail a synth so that I always get the most xp out of it.
The 3 turn abilities I use are
Preserve=== Alchemy 10 (White orb)
Manipulation= Goldsmith 30 (increase Dex influence on quality)
Maker's Muse= Blacksmith 10 (Standard success increase)
Masterpiece= Weaver 10 (Careful success increase)
For my single turn abilities I use
Perfection===Carpenter 36 (Next action 100% success)
Grandmastery=Carpenter 30 (Improves success of next action)
Creative Urge=Alchemy 20(Improves success of next action)
Epiphany====Goldsmith 10 (Increases odd of quality gains for next action)
Based on the above Preserve, Maker's Muse, Masterpiece and Epiphany can be seen as good staples that are easy to obtain with little effort since 1-10 doesn't take to long to do especially with changes to how xp work now. Though these are abilities I use based on the level of my current crafts if I were to look into it more I could prolly figure out what I would want and not want. However this above setup has been giving me a very high success rate per synth while granting be an additional 125-200% xp gains per synth based on how lucky I got during my careful synth phase.
Though with the current craft system I can see a reform coming to the abilities and I believe they should also bring back GMs for Crafting. Since as it stands now if you want the best chance at HQ you have to level certain crafts to a certain level to obtain the abilities that'll help you. However by doing this you end up having crafters who all have the same crafts leveled because it was required of them in order to have the best HQ chances.
A simple way to fix this would be to have GM's that would allow you to purchase abilities from other classes as long as your highest craft level is the proper level. So a Carpenter 45 could get all the lv 45 abilities for let's say 10k Guild Marks each if they wanted them. While it may take time to obtain those GMs at least it would be a lot better then the alternative of having to level another craft just to obtain said ability. -
03-20-2012, 04:46 AMOrophinYeah, seems like the current recipes are more or less made up of only materials, save for some that require "broken" armor like Moth-eaten Coatee, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
Honestly I think this system is ok. HQs should be pretty rare in occurrence if you're not using HQ materials. The new system also has you plan out your actions a little better (well..it's more like do as much careful synthesis as you possibly can) to get an HQ rather than just spamming standard and getting a total random result.
Sounds like OP is just running into an awful string of bad luck. 5 synths with 80% chance to HQ at the end with no HQ is pretty bad.
Edit: On a side note, just the process of leveling up seems to be much more tolerable now as well. I was synthing something within 1-2 levels of my craft level the other night, and due to the relative ease of the synth, I was able to do a bunch of careful synthesis actions. Normally this recipe would give me about 200-250 xp per synth, but I was able to get a gain of over 200% quality, thus making my xp gains much higher. I can't wait to try this out on crafting leves when I decide to take a break from leveling my battle classes. -
03-20-2012, 05:25 AMScarface
Slight advice for those who have 50's:
When going for HQ I use these abilities, and if possible in this rotation:
Start synth:
Hand of the gods (Use innovation during this to increase quality gain and avoid durability lose) x3 synths for raw mats, x4 for finished items.
After that use inspiration to increase quality gain. (Using 3 of these 4 abilities during this phase, Perfection, Close Inspection, Less is more, or Epiphany)
If you used less is more during this phase you should be around 80-85 durability left. If you didn't use Perfection during this phase, use it immeidately after inspiration wares off, and do RAPID synth.
From here on it all depends on your success rate and quality vs durability left.
Masterpiece
Tender Touch
and Preserve (you can change this to makers' muse, or fulfillment, depending)
Use careful synth, and standard according to synth.
Hope this helps~ -
03-20-2012, 05:27 AMPeptaru
You can also use the abilities like piece by piece, assembly, grand design. they seem to work more often than not, give you 30% progress and are a minimal loss if they fail.
Edit: When trying for HQ i use these instead of standard since standard is guaranteed to eat quality (save for hand of the gods) and none of those abilities do if they're successful. -
03-20-2012, 08:43 AMMister-WonderfulQuote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
Well, I only have 1 50 craft personally, GSM, But I went out and got Alchemist to 36 and most of my other crafts are 26+, but that doesn't really slow me down. I can take NQ boar hide and get it up to 20-30% at least HQ chance even at my 47 leatherworker, (as you can see in that SS) Granted, it doesn't work everytime :). There is a lot of luck involved even in synths let alone the HQ.
I follow the same pattern most every HQ, This is a kind of bad video I made yesterday lol, but It shows how I usually use my abilities. Almost every part failed of the synth failed. Just another lucky HQ.
http://youtu.be/QVEbizzQEHA -
03-20-2012, 08:01 PMShorty
A couple of other pieces of info with HQ crafting that I've found out after a bit of playing around:
Careful, rapid, standard all seem to have the same success rate now.
The boost from quality increasing abilities such as Resolution seem to be quite noticeable.
There's a diminishing return on quality gains as you progress in quality. e.g. in the first 3-400 quality gains, you should notice significant quality gains per careful. At around 500 quality gains, there will be a drop, and at 700+ quality gains, it'll be very tough to get more than 20-30 quality per careful, even with quality boosting abilities. I believe this is a mechanism to prevent high level crafter from making 1000 quality synths with low level recipes.
Nothing totally unexpected I guess... Happy crafting ^_^ -
03-20-2012, 10:52 PMMeatdawg
The orb is flashing.
You use inspiration.
You use innovation.
You use careful syntheses, the quality of your item rises 284 quality.
Your innovation fades.
You use immersion.
You use careful syntheses, the quality of your item rises 184 quality.
Your immersion fades.
You use perfection.
You use careful syntheses, the quality of your item rises 254 quality.
Your inspiration fades.
Your Perfection fades. -
03-21-2012, 12:06 PMtymora
You never mentioned what recipe this is and your rank.
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03-21-2012, 10:51 PMMeatdawgThe point was the abilities to stack when going for hq. (the above was just one example, there is a lot more)Quote:
Originally Posted by tymora
On lower recipes the quality return is very high, on level 50 recipes, even fails still grant you 70-90 quality increase.