Some mentors...

Are just the worst type of people. There should be a criteria of becoming a mentor that you should have to uphold or you lose mentor status based on GM review.

K

/tencharacters

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Originally Posted by Dfess

Are just the worst type of people. There should be a criteria of becoming a mentor that you should have to uphold or you lose mentor status based on GM review.

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Amd how exactly should that work? And how many GMs has SE to pay to supervise the tenthousands of mentors?

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

K

/tencharacters

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what's my ten characters got to do with it? doesn't change the fact that some mentors just have the status for the roulette and don't care about helping people. if you aren't going to be an actual mentor for people you shouldn't have the status.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Amd how exactly should that work? And how many GMs has SE to pay to supervise the tenthousands of mentors?

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they can keep as many as they got now and have something like the overwatch system for CS:GO or League of Legends Tribunal system that would give cases based on reports from players. Something they can do when they have the time. Like on their free time or just when they can get to it.

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Originally Posted by Dfess

what's my ten characters got to do with it? doesn't change the fact that some mentors just have the status for the roulette and don't care about helping people. if you aren't going to be an actual mentor for people you shouldn't have the status.

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It is kinda curious isn't it? Wonder why they bother talking to the NPC to gain it anyway. Maybe to just get a crown by their name.

They need to just remove the system entirely. Scrap it. It can be done just as well, and probably better for there to be a general novice channel where people can choose to help on their own - if anything.

What did this one do? Kick your dog? Run over your best friend? Dig up your grandparent's grave? Should there be something more in how one can get the crown? Probably and it probably should also mean something more. Not all mentors are jerks or just wear it cause it's a thing to get. There are ones that actually try to teach people. There's also ones that have just given up in trying to teach people because they get a bunch of salt/snark in the response of you don't pay my sub or a shut it you elitist jerk. Then there are the ones who don't wear the crown who still occasionally teach.

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Originally Posted by Kanitezz

It is kinda curious isn't it? Wonder why they bother talking to the NPC to gain it anyway. Maybe to just get a crown by their name.

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They do it for the "Mentor Roulette" which is just another roulette.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

What did this one do? Kick your dog? Run over your best friend? Dig up your grandparent's grave? Should there be something more in how one can get the crown? Probably and it probably should also mean something more. Not all mentors are jerks or just wear it cause it's a thing to get. There are ones that actually try to teach people. There's also ones that have just given up in trying to teach people because they get a bunch of salt/snark in the response of you don't pay my sub or a shut it you elitist jerk. Then there are the ones who don't wear the crown who still occasionally teach.

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you obviously didn't read the title.

also, you are just proving my point. if you are not going to give a crap about being a mentor then you shouldn't be a mentor.

I'll stop being a mentor the moment you let me join Novice Network! I literally only got mentor to join Novice Network's general chat.

I never do mentor roulette. Why in God's name would I waste an hour of my life for like 30 poetics? PEople who run mentor roulette for currency blow my mind. It's a terrible choice for currency. Run some maps instead! Even the solo ones give top-tier currency, and you'd still save time.

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Originally Posted by Dfess

you obviously didn't read the title.

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But I did. Not my fault that we have actually had rawer mentors suck threads with semi joke titles of A mentor just kicked my dog.

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Originally Posted by Dfess

what's my ten characters got to do with it? doesn't change the fact that some mentors just have the status for the roulette and don't care about helping people. if you aren't going to be an actual mentor for people you shouldn't have the status.

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Posts have a 10 character minimum to them. Hence /10char if someone types a short reply like that.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Posts have a 10 character minimum to them. Hence /10char if someone types a short reply like that.

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oooooh i see. i just usually type question marks or exclamation points to extend it XD.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

But I did. Not my fault that we have actually had rawer mentors suck threads with semi joke titles of A mentor just kicked my dog.

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he didn't kick my dog. he was telling a new player to get good or quit playing the game just because the new player didn't like the tab targeting system. saying that if you are going to criticize the game then don't play it. what kind of logic is that? every game should be criticized. I don't blame the new player the tab targeting in this game is garbage. but that isn't a reason to tell the new player to quit the game.

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Originally Posted by JackHatchet

I'll stop being a mentor the moment you let me join Novice Network! I literally only got mentor to join Novice Network's general chat.

I never do mentor roulette. Why in God's name would I waste an hour of my life for like 30 poetics? PEople who run mentor roulette for currency blow my mind. It's a terrible choice for currency. Run some maps instead! Even the solo ones give top-tier currency, and you'd still save time.

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you chose to be a mentor. the roulette isn't to get you more stuff it's there so you if you have the time you would help newer players. that is what you are signing up for when you choose to become a mentor. you are doing it out of the kindness of your heart. not to fill your wallet.

Ok I'll bite:

One, whenever there is content that offers a reward, especially one that can only be obtained through that one means, you're ALWAYS going to have people running it that only care about said reward and don't give a hoot about anything else. On that note, the mentor roulette is not "just another roulette"; it has several rewards that can only be obtained through it. And through a lot of it, for that matter.

Two, a lot of people are under the (mistaken) impression that mentors are there as impeccable robot slaves that have 100% memorized all the content, can run it perfectly, and are willing to walk the party through every mechanic even in fights like ex primals without ever losing their patience. In reality, they are only human just like you are. They have their limits just like everyone else.

Three, if you actually did have ten FFXIV characters created, that was just sheer coincidence on my part.

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Originally Posted by Dfess

you chose to be a mentor. the roulette isn't to get you more stuff it's there so you if you have the time you would help newer players. that is what you are signing up for when you choose to become a mentor. you are doing it out of the kindness of your heart. not to fill your wallet.

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Yeah, the reward is crap, so I don't do it. Which is perfectly fair.

But what I don't understand is why the mentors who do do it for rewards--even bother. You hear all of those horror stories of mentors joining in and then dipping out. Like seriously, why are they even trying when the reward is literal garbage.

https://media.giphy.com/media/dZEoQE...P98G/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Ok I'll bite:

One, whenever there is content that offers a reward, especially one that can only be obtained through that one means, you're ALWAYS going to have people running it that only care about said reward and don't give a hoot about anything else. On that note, the mentor roulette is not "just another roulette"; it has several rewards that can only be obtained through it. And through a lot of it, for that matter.

Two, a lot of people are under the (mistaken) impression that mentors are there as impeccable robot slaves that have 100% memorized all the content, can run it perfectly, and are willing to walk the party through every mechanic even in fights like ex primals without ever losing their patience. In reality, they are only human just like you are. They have their limits just like everyone else.

Three, if you actually did have ten FFXIV characters created, that was just sheer coincidence on my part.

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I'll address these in order.

1) While there are rewards you can get from the mentor roulette for going through it, that isn't the main reason it's there. It's there for you to help the new players and teach them if they need to be taught.

2) Sure, these type of people exist but, take the time to explain to them, "Hey guy, I may have been doing this for longer than you but, I'm human and make mistakes too. I am still learning things in this game just like you."

3) I have 6. XD I also just learned what you meant by /tencharacters.

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Originally Posted by JackHatchet

Yeah, the reward is crap, so I don't do it. Which is perfectly fair.

But what I don't understand is why the mentors who do do it for rewards--even bother. You hear all of those horror stories of mentors joining in and then dipping out. Like seriously, why are they even trying when the reward is literal garbage.

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Well, the reward is one of the rarest, most desirable mounts in the game, so yes they have a very good reason for running the heck out of mentor roulette (2000 mentor roulettse = Astrope mount). Not necessarily a good reason for dropping EX primals or getting angry at new players, but there is definitely a massive, winged carrot at the end of that stick that most of the people you see in there are working towards.

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Originally Posted by JackHatchet

Yeah, the reward is crap, so I don't do it. Which is perfectly fair.

But what I don't understand is why the mentors who do do it for rewards--even bother. You hear all of those horror stories of mentors joining in and then dipping out. Like seriously, why are they even trying when the reward is literal garbage.

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And that's something that should be addressed. If you aren't going to do it to help new players then why have it at all. It should be taken away from you and you should not be getting these rewards. As for why they are going for the rewards...beats me?

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Originally Posted by Espritduo

Well, the reward is one of the rarest, most desirable mounts in the game, so yes they have a very good reason for running the heck out of mentor roulette (2000 mentor roulettse = Astrope mount). Not necessarily a good reason for dropping EX primals or getting angry at new players, but there is definitely a massive, winged carrot at the end of that stick that most of the people you see in there are working towards.

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ooooh. I didn't know this. maybe i should take the time to go through all the achievements and see what else I can get.

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Originally Posted by Dfess

he didn't kick my dog. he was telling a new player to get good or quit playing the game just because the new player didn't like the tab targeting system. saying that if you are going to criticize the game then don't play it. what kind of logic is that? every game should be criticized. I don't blame the new player the tab targeting in this game is garbage. but that isn't a reason to tell the new player to quit the game.

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Then yeah that mentor was obviously not a nice one. Other threads tend to be rawer a mentor kicked me or my friend even though there's no way to tell who actually starts a kick. Just that it had to be the guy wearing the crown. Then the thread evolves into a mentors should always know everything and teach everyone all the time no matter how polite their hey could you please use your cool downs gets the responses of "you don't pay my sub" or "could you not be an elitist jerkwad". Then there's the mentors who get trolled by other mentors who try to pass off wrong info for correct info and tell new people to ignore the actual correct advice. While pretty much a consensus on that it needs to be fixed, but without agreement on how. The big allure being of course the giant unicorn pegasus two seater you don't have to pay extra to get that's also not linked to a limited time event.

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Originally Posted by JackHatchet

But what I don't understand is why the mentors who do do it for rewards--even bother. You hear all of those horror stories of mentors joining in and then dipping out. Like seriously, why are they even trying when the reward is literal garbage.

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The only dignified human being I knew rocking the burger king crown did it because of the Astrape mount at the end of that godforsaken tunnel.

I think the biggest issue with the Mentor system is that it doesn't factor in the typical behavior of Western players actually making use of it. It's only when people with the Mentor status are capable of being held more liable for their actions will the system bear any actual value (at least in the West).

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Then yeah that mentor was obviously not a nice one. Other threads tend to be rawer a mentor kicked me or my friend even though there's no way to tell who actually starts a kick. Just that it had to be the guy wearing the crown. Then the thread evolves into a mentors should always know everything and teach everyone all the time no matter how polite their hey could you please use your cool downs gets the responses of "you don't pay my sub" or "could you not be an elitist jerkwad". Then there's the mentors who get trolled by other mentors who try to pass off wrong info for correct info and tell new people to ignore the actual correct advice. While pretty much a consensus on that it needs to be fixed, but without agreement on how. The big allure being of course the giant unicorn pegasus two seater you don't have to pay extra to get that's also not linked to a limited time event.

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I personally don't care if you are being raw or uncut. If a new player tells you those things then block them or tell them off. If they want to respond like an ass then they should get a response = to how their response. However, I don't see how it can be good for the game to tell new players to quit if they don't like something rather than teaching them how to abuse these systems to work for them rather than against them.

Like for the tab targeting. If you tilt the camera to reduce the amount of enemies on the screen then you will have a better chance at targeting the enemy you want rather than one 10 miles in the distance. Or a response to the new player, "While i don't know how to answer this for you i'm sure another mentor could." Or just not say any thing at all. There is no reason to call them scrubs and tell them to piss off. Also, if you don't want to answer questions or be bothered by new players you can turn the chat on and off willy nilly and you can skip a day of roulettes. It won't kill you to skip a day.

(not attacking you btw, just very frustrated when thinking about this whole situation)

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

The only dignified human being I knew rocking the burger king crown did it because of the Astrape mount at the end of that godforsaken tunnel.

I think the biggest issue with the Mentor system is that it doesn't factor in the typical behavior of Western players actually making use of it. It's only when people with the Mentor status are capable of being held more liable for their actions will the system bear any actual value (at least in the West).

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Exactly. If there are punishments for your treatment to new players or new players to other players then people would take it more seriously and people who actually really want to help would join. I don't care if you join and keep to yourself and never talk to anyone. I don't care if you just joined for the chat room. You do you. But help if you are going to do the roulette. Or if you are to respond to a new player then don't be a dick just because he said something bad about the game or he said something you don't like. There is a report system and a block system.

I find myself ticking my mentor status on and off randomly. Cause part of my thought is, since so many mentors just bully new players, the mentor status doesn't really mean anything to me. But the other part of me wants to be one of the good ones. So that's when I find myself switching it back on. I've kept it on a lot recently.

Adding an incentive makes it attract the greediest and most selfish players. If they just made a mentor system solely for players who wanted to help others, I'm sure there would be less of them and far better experiences when encountering them.

Though, it would be nice if there was a way to have their mentor status removed, like if they received x amount of harassment reports.

Many people are just toxic for the sake of being toxic, protected by no one knowing who they are behind the screen. Just report the people being douche canoes, block them, and show the new people that not everyone is bad.

The mentor crown is literally JUST name glamour, it doesn't mean a bloody thing personally. I never use it because of the stigma around it. I'm an abrasive person at times, but if someone is new, I have patience to spare at this point and I'll force my bad puns and dad jokes upon unsuspecting newbies.

But at this point most people know that the mentor stuff is kind just...bad, for everyone that isn't the JP players from what I've heard. So don't think what I'm saying there is 100%, but you hear a lot of things in game.

Also there's the vote kick option if someone is really being that bad.

im not going to play devils advocate and ignore the stigma exists for a reason, but....


is this really just an echo chamber circle jerk, or can we address the elephant in the room that is the blatant hypocrisy that is all of you lashing out against mentors on sight? That pretty toxic too.


Ill take someone going on an entitled power trip than the very toxic and very concerning behavior i witness in these threads. Y'all would be classified as some pretty terrible things if any of this bled out into the real world, geez. Y'all need air. and water.

This topic always pops up way more than It should and It always devolves into either generalizing all mentors who wear the crown as terrible people or It's people imposing their own stipulations upon all mentors. Yeah, the mentor system's requirements are a joke, they always have been. I've always been of the opinion that the entire system needs to be overhauled into both stricter requirements and stricter punishments as well as having the actual Icon be changed to a Watering can. It's a system that has potential but It's poorly executed. There's also mentors out there (like myself) who don't even have the mentor roulette unlocked, but you are not obligated to queue for the mentor roulette and you can still help other players without it.


I'll continue to help those that ask for it, whether it's informing a newer players in a dungeon they are in for the first time or whether it's a sprout asking a question in NN. There's also the other side of the coin which is probably the primary cause for people de-activating their mentor status and that's when Mentors reach out to help or give advice only to be met with hostility. I can't really fault other mentors for not reaching out as much as they used to, trying to help other people that don't want to help themselves and react negatively towards any helpful advice is obviously a waste of time.


There are a few bad apples out there that unfortunately spoil the bunch, but it's not all mentors. This isn't just a mentor problem either, it's a "everyone" problem. I think the quote goes "Be the change you want to see in the world." If you want to see more helpful mentors that are willing to help people, then those on the receiving end need to change both their attitudes and how the react to someone who's intention is to help them. That is the entire point of the system after all.

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Originally Posted by Dfess

And that's something that should be addressed. If you aren't going to do it to help new players then why have it at all. It should be taken away from you and you should not be getting these rewards. As for why they are going for the rewards...beats me?

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I feel like you haven't read all of my posts in this topic. I'm a mentor for Novice Network access. If I could choose to become a sprout again--I'd gladly wear a sprout and sit in the Novice Network. Novice Network should be optional and open to EVERYONE! But once you lose your sprout--you're basically told to screw off. Unless you get a crown--then you can join in. I have two characters with mentor status just so I can chill with the cool folks in the Novice Network.

And yeah, before y'all get all righteous on me. I'll mention that I never pretend to have authority, or pretend that my opinion means more than any other players. I freely admit that I wear my crown for the Novice Network just so people get some real honesty in this game. I'm not going to pretend to be holier than thou. I just want to participate in the most active community this game has. And I shouldn't be punished and removed from the Novice Network just because I afked in town for 500 hours or whatever nonsense it is.

Sprout shouldn't randomly fade away after X amount of time. We as the players should be able to keep our sprout on forever if we want to. You give me Novice Network access--and I'll gladly throw away my crown.

Meh, to be honest I do the mentor roulette just for fun. Not for the rewards or whatnot, but because it has a huge variety of dungeons and trials to end up in. And plus ; I love to help newcomers and people in general.

That being said, I actually thought there was a mention of mentors needing to have a good attitude or they would see their crown removed, no ? I'm sure I read that when becoming one. It said something like "watch it because if you don't act like you can have the crown you'll have it removed" and I always thought it meant that too many reports would remove the mentor title.

Or is it just me ? I'm not sure anymore lol

Ah another one of these threads that will totally be fair to any player with a crown, and not hold them to an unobtainably high standard even though they are also just players.

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Originally Posted by DarkMasamune

Meh, to be honest I do the mentor roulette just for fun. Not for the rewards or whatnot, but because it has a huge variety of dungeons and trials to end up in. And plus ; I love to help newcomers and people in general.

That being said, I actually thought there was a mention of mentors needing to have a good attitude or they would see their crown removed, no ? I'm sure I read that when becoming one. It said something like "watch it because if you don't act like you can have the crown you'll have it removed" and I always thought it meant that too many reports would remove the mentor title.

Or is it just me ? I'm not sure anymore lol

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um... there IS a list of things that pop up when you choose to join NN, but its been so long since i did that that i dont remember the stuff off-hand. im not sure it states specifically mentions a "good attitude" and i know for a fact there isnt any threats of losing the crown. at least not in the system itself. that specific thing im confident is saying isnt the case in-game, anyway. unless its hidden in the Smith? I'm sure someone would be eager to tell me im wrong. And i havent even heard of any concrete cases that there has been thats ever given me a source.

if theres a verified case, i'd love to read it though. I dont really like making statements like thaat without the information to back it up. please teach me when im wrong.

Honestly, though I just dont like the fearmongering, threatening and the general hypocrisy of these same people being just as violent if not moreso than the mentors they seek to tear down. I honestly feel more puppies have been shot in the name of bad mentors than bad mentors have actually kicked themselves. and thats messed up.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

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https://i.imgur.com/riKt3LK.png

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

um... there IS a list of things that pop up when you choose to join NN, but its been so long since i did that that i dont remember the stuff off-hand. im not sure it states specifically mentions a "good attitude" and i know for a fact there isnt any threats of losing the crown. at least not in the system itself. that specific thing im confident is saying isnt the case in-game, anyway. unless its hidden in the Smith? I'm sure someone would be eager to tell me im wrong. And i havent even heard of any concrete cases that there has been thats ever given me a source.

if theres a verified case, i'd love to read it though. I dont really like making statements like thaat without the information to back it up. please teach me when im wrong.

Honestly, though I just dont like the fearmongering, threatening and the general hypocrisy of these same people being just as violent if not moreso than the mentors they seek to tear down. I honestly feel more puppies have been shot in the name of bad mentors than bad mentors have actually kicked themselves. and thats messed up.

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Yeah I can't remember for sure, perhaps I'm wrong.

That being said, I agree with you. I was so happy to become a mentor and help newcomers, and now it just feels like anyone would shoot me on sight just because of the crown. I know the crown isn't needed to help people, but it just feels nice to be 'identified' as someone to go to if you need any help or advice.

EDIT : Thank you Hash_Browns, I was sure I saw that somewhere lol

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

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YEAH! thats the one, thanks! im not in game to grab a snap, thank you. i see the behavoir thing. and even the warning is "may be reported" and not "your crown will be removed" so thats still a bit excessive for people to hurl around like candy. Thanks for the correction. i shoulda checked like i usually do, ah well :D

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Originally Posted by DarkMasamune

That being said, I agree with you. I was so happy to become a mentor and help newcomers, and now it just feels like anyone would shoot me on sight just because of the crown.

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Because most people are looking to do that.

I've been in roulettes with my crown leveling a class I wasn't familiar with, only to have someone take a shot at me right at the end of the dungeon/raid, and then leave so I couldn't retort - all because of my crown.

Mentors are basically Disney Land employees.
You are expected to smile while people crush your toes.

Level 70 not know how to AOE in the expert dungeon? They aren't the problem, the mentor that hasn't said anything because they don't want to get the "you don't pay my sub" response is the problem because they haven't taught the guy with the max level class how to do it.