How I'd like to see DRK's Living Shadow (Fray) change

As it stands now, living shadow gives you about 7 gcds worth of attacks (lasts for 24 seconds, starts attacking at about 18 seconds). While it's visually satisfying, there is a disconnect in gameplay. Beyond the required blood gauge, there's no mechanic that creates a sense of attachment to the shadow. It's been called a glorified dot and I think that's an accurate assessment.

While I don't think complete control over the shadow is appropriate for its lore (which would be created by gcd mimicry as seen in ninja's bunshin), I think there should be an ogcd button press that issues the command for fray to execute a random gcd/ogcd (fray action). This could be implemented easily by changing the living shadow button into the new ogcd that executes a Fray action. It would have the same cd as dark arts did and be executable after every gcd for a total of 7 hits.

While we have edge/flood of shadow to keep the feeling of dark arts present, I think the extra activity is warranted as blood weapon no longer gives the speed buff and we can consistently double weave. This would also address concerns regarding drk being less fast paced than its previous iterations.

It's arguable that this is just meaningless ogcd spam or that it's too similar to continuation in gunbreaker. Well, continuation happens every 30 seconds whereas fray happens every 120 seconds. It's about 2x the number of ogcds within its available timeframe, but happens 4x less so it has a firm identity that separates it. I also think having a button attached to a fray action will go a long way in not only creating a solid identity for drk, but also in giving living shadow more impact as an action.

Edit: After some more consideration, I do think this implementation is a little weak, especially because it's mindless and doesn't enable decision making. It wouldn't feel right to implement after launch as it'd just be creating more work for the player without a payoff. There's different ways to play off the base idea, though. They could change living shadow into the ogcd that exectutes a fray action, but make it a 5 second or 10 cd (so that you get 4 or 2 off per duration) that ensures that next gcd will be mimicked. Every other gcd by fray would be random (or be part of a set rotation that does the apparent 350 potency "attack" every time it hits, regardless of what the skill visual is). It looked awesome in the job action trailer when bloodspiller came out at the same time on the drk and fray. This would create a situation where you'd be going after high potency weapon skills like bloodspiller or souleater. It also is lore appropriate because it gives the feeling of having some control over your shadow, but not complete control.

I just want Fray to give me a hug, I miss you buddy! Even though you were kind of a dick.

I think that I'd like this Shadow better if it was a targeted attack on something. There are two reasons for this. First, it takes away the feeling that this is a pet that you have to somehow babysit. Second, if the enmity transferred to you, you could just throw it on something that has just spawned and have your Shadow escort it back to the group. It would also make sense if this whole thing was snappier. The potency value of the ability is offset by any delays spent summoning as well as the potency value of the 50 blood cost.

I'm not sure why this thing has its own UI gauge, either. It would make sense of Edge of Shadow or Flood of Shadow actually interacted with it to extend the duration, or alternatively, if they made your Shadow throw in extra oGCD uses of Edge for additional hits.

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Originally Posted by Naginatasu

While we have edge/flood of shadow to keep the feeling of dark arts present, I think the extra activity is warranted as blood weapon no longer gives the speed buff and we can consistently double weave. This would also address concerns regarding drk being less fast paced than its previous iterations.

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A thing to note in regards to fast pace, is that we don't actually get less ogcds in SHB, in fact we get one more due to Abyssal Drain's change. What's likely to mess up the high apm feeling is how they all line up together as well as how focused our MP generation is on short Blood Weapon period. This creates very active burst windows, already with lots of double weaving, while not leaving any ogcds or MP left for downtime, which is clunky in those 10 second bursts and boring otherwise *cough*sbmch*cough*.

Switching 40/45 second timers to more multiplies of 30 and reducing the MP generation is the issue here, not lack of ogcds. To a degree also charges on Plunge, as now we can(and likely will) just save both uses for burst every 60 seconds, rather than using it every 30 bar situations where it's held for gap closing(which we will actually need less now with Arm's Length).

Living Shadow with it's 120 second cd would simply add even more weaving to a period which all ogcds are already focused on.

I think it could be interesting if we could extend Living Shadow duration by some of our skills. Since Darkside is too easy to maintain permanently, I'd say the Blood action could increase the timer by 5s.
Which would also give a better synergy with Delirium.

If they were smart, they would've united Delirium with Inner Shadow in such a way that you're granted some MP back like the old way and then either extend it's duration or have delirium apply the last few set of skills you used prior to using Living Shadow. There should be some form of connection to the skill but there sadly isn't.

Unrelated and personal preference... I wish it wasn't Fray anymore to a degree. I wish it was our level 50 self, our true darkside... us in DRK artifact gear blackened out. Seeing multiple DRK's with also Fray up is a bit immersion breaking... Just saying.

Living Shadow is ok. It doesn't need any kind of "Akh Morn" skill.

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Originally Posted by Valic

I wish it wasn't Fray anymore to a degree. I wish it was our level 50 self, our true darkside... us in DRK artifact gear blackened out. Seeing multiple DRK's with also Fray up is a bit immersion breaking... Just saying.

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The only important change needed.

I'd prefer to treat it as a (highly reactive) pet, but one whose duration is excessive to its attack limit, giving a few seconds' of flexibility for movement over its time out, and uses Plunge only for mobility until the end of its duration. Actual attacks. Starts at 80+ Blood. Decent AI. (So, not typical XIV AI; better.)

The first button press would summon the Shadow. It would start off automatically attacking whomever you attack.
The next press with an enemy targeted would force it to attack (or stick to) the target enemy.
Pressing the button on a new target (on whom no attack order has yet been set) will then force your Shadow to attack that target instead.
A further button press on the same target (on whom an attack order has already been set) would return to automatically attacking whomever you attack.

There is no animation (and therefore no animation lock or potential uptime cost) to these further commands. They can be used even in the middle of another skill's animation.

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Originally Posted by Valic

That's just too much pet control for a tank tbh. Even as simple as that sounds. If anything, he needs to get moving faster, or they could copy MCH and depending on how much blackblood you have is how long the duration lasts. Im sure at some point they'll speed up the animation for getting out there but overall it just needs to be consistent in behavior and longer.

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Why? You have a pet (well, DoT). You have a button that you already expend on summoning it (applying it). So why not allow for that level of control when it costs literally nothing to do so?

Sure, increase its movement speed a bit with some nice shadow effects, but it's unlikely you're going to move it more than once per fight without falling under the same uptime loss yourself, and Plunge is perfectly sufficient for that.

Just give it a maximum of X strikes, despite having a duration a bit longer than what is necessary for that even at the lowest possible Attack Speed.

Or, heck, just use the damn thing like you would a floating sword duplicating each of your attacks. But there should be some increased import for optimization during its summon period, rather than it just being a DoT. We should be seeing varied damage numbers there, something to give the indication that it is anything like what it appears to be.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'd prefer to treat it as a (highly reactive) pet, but one whose duration is excessive to its attack limit, giving a few seconds' of flexibility for movement over its time out, and uses Plunge only for mobility until the end of its duration. Actual attacks. Starts at 80+ Blood. Decent AI. (So, not typical XIV AI; better.)

The first button press would summon the Shadow. It would start off automatically attacking whomever you attack.
The next press with an enemy targeted would force it to attack (or stick to) the target enemy.
Pressing the button on a new target (on whom no attack order has yet been set) will then force your Shadow to attack that target instead.
A further button press on the same target (on whom an attack order has already been set) would return to automatically attacking whomever you attack.

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That's just too much pet control for a tank tbh. Even as simple as that sounds. If anything, he needs to get moving faster, or they could copy MCH and depending on how much blackblood you have is how long the duration lasts. Im sure at some point they'll speed up the animation for getting out there but overall it just needs to be consistent in behavior and longer.

Being able to have the shadow dance, when we dance, and have it look like a silhouette of our character in the lvl 80 gear.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'd prefer to treat it as a (highly reactive) pet, but one whose duration is excessive to its attack limit, giving a few seconds' of flexibility for movement over its time out, and uses Plunge only for mobility until the end of its duration. Actual attacks. Starts at 80+ Blood. Decent AI. (So, not typical XIV AI; better.)

The first button press would summon the Shadow. It would start off automatically attacking whomever you attack.
The next press with an enemy targeted would force it to attack (or stick to) the target enemy.
Pressing the button on a new target (on whom no attack order has yet been set) will then force your Shadow to attack that target instead.
A further button press on the same target (on whom an attack order has already been set) would return to automatically attacking whomever you attack.

There is no animation (and therefore no animation lock or potential uptime cost) to these further commands. They can be used even in the middle of another skill's animation.



Why? You have a pet (well, DoT). You have a button that you already expend on summoning it (applying it). So why not allow for that level of control when it costs literally nothing to do so?

Sure, increase its movement speed a bit with some nice shadow effects, but it's unlikely you're going to move it more than once per fight without falling under the same uptime loss yourself, and Plunge is perfectly sufficient for that.

Just give it a maximum of X strikes, despite having a duration a bit longer than what is necessary for that even at the lowest possible Attack Speed.

Or, heck, just use the damn thing like you would a floating sword duplicating each of your attacks. But there should be some increased import for optimization during its summon period, rather than it just being a DoT. We should be seeing varied damage numbers there, something to give the indication that it is anything like what it appears to be.

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Because tbh, this skill is not the identity of the DRK, it shouldn't have a ton of functionality revolving around controlling it, it should just be a pop it and hey free extra damage. DRK isn't a pet manager, it manages MP, that much more to do goes against their concept of simplifying jobs as is. i'm not arguing that it doesn't need some adjustments, it clearly does... but turning DRK into what we have in Squadron missions with buttons directing NPC's is already a chore and not fun, I'd rather not force that on a job who's originality came from being a counter tank. As for movement, I meant the summoning animation taking 5 seconds off the clock for that epic introduction it spends all it's time doing. If we're to have any control over it, it needs to revolve around what a DRK already does, not just add a bunch of pretty new buttons to it and say "IT WORKS RIGHT?" that's a bandage to the real issue.

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Originally Posted by Valic

Because tbh, this skill is not the identity of the DRK, it shouldn't have a ton of functionality revolving around controlling it, it should just be a pop it and hey free extra damage. DRK isn't a pet manager, it manages MP, that much more to do goes against their concept of simplifying jobs as is. i'm not arguing that it doesn't need some adjustments, it clearly does... but turning DRK into what we have in Squadron missions with buttons directing NPC's is already a chore and not fun, I'd rather not force that on a job who's originality came from being a counter tank. As for movement, I meant the summoning animation taking 5 seconds off the clock for that epic introduction it spends all it's time doing. If we're to have any control over it, it needs to revolve around what a DRK already does, not just add a bunch of pretty new buttons to it and say "IT WORKS RIGHT?" that's a bandage to the real issue.

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It is going to be balanced around its functional duration regardless. If it attacked immediately, then the duration or the damage dealt per tick would just have to be reduced to compensate. Having it attack immediately just make it that much harder to fit into a TA scheduled raid burst window when you could otherwise preempt it.

But okay, enjoy your Scourge on a multi-minute cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

It is going to be balanced around its functional duration regardless. If it attacked immediately, then the duration or the damage dealt per tick would just have to be reduced to compensate. Having it attack immediately just make it that much harder to fit into a TA scheduled raid burst window when you could otherwise preempt it.

But okay, enjoy your Scourge on a multi-minute cooldown.

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I don't raid tho so /shrug. I just want our job to have an identity, idc about TA's timing, just gimme a fun job that makes sense.