Just remove the fairy already.

With the changes to the fairy coming in Shadowbringers, I think it's about time they just remove it. Reasons why:

#1. Pet no longer has HP or is targetable

The fairy is no longer a targetable, has any HP, or an aggro table. The SCH cannot use it for deployment tactics, or as add peal in FATEs / Eureka. It acts more like a minion at this point.

#2. Embrace

Embrace is now insta-cast and is no longer a button that can be used to individually target players. The result is less control but more mobility. Adding a trait to SCH that heals anyone within 25 yalms every 3 seconds with 0 aggro would do the exact same thing: an uncontrollable passive heal.

#3. Pet Skills on SCH oGCD

The nail in the coffin, pet skills are now oGCD skills for the SCH. No longer can you use Whispering Dawn while you are casting Broil or Adlo, you now have to use it at the same time you would hit Lustrate or Excog; while not casting. If they are going to act just like our oGCDs, then make them our oGCDs, not a more annoying version.

These are my thoughts. Make Embrace a trait, move all oGCD skills to the SCH. Dissipation and the new Super Fairy? Combine them into one ability. 2-3 minute cooldown where you gain 3 aetherflow and unlock new abilities for 20-30 seconds, kind of similar to how Dreadwyrm Trance was in Heavensward. We can keep the gauge, just rename it something like "static aether: aether that is left over from our aetherflow abilities that is gathered by the SCH". It would still allow the use of Fey Union but prevent the previous fairy oGCDs from working.

They are already killing off Selene in Shadowbringers, just take her sister too.

nah im good

I have conflicts in this situation, but I don't want to lose the fairy. It's fun, and she's cute.

I can think of two moments specifically where the fairy being targetable came into play in major ways during challenging encounters, those being Titania and Brute Justice. With Titania back in ARR, her conflagration move required you to stack a number of people in the fire field to split the fireball damage and keep the stunned person from dying. Back then, this mechanic split among all "targets", so one of the fun benefits of having a SCH or SMN is that their fairies and egis counted as targets, so having them nearby reduced the split damage a little. My other example was Brute Justice, where I had the ignomious honor of unknowingly wiping the raid multiple times by positioning the fairy in the safe "run-to" spot during the 3rd phase merry-go-round. As it turned out, Brute's big beam laser could (and often would) target the fairy as if it were a player even though the laser did practically nothing to the fairy, and by putting the fairy in the safe spot we intended to run into (because the boss wouldn't kill it there), it occasionally caused the boss to beam the area as we ran into it. Once we figured this out it led to being able to laugh as lasers shot off to nowhere throughout the fight, but it was extremely frustrating not realizing what was happening and wiping multiple times to it.

As such, having the fairy be immortal is kind of a nice quality of life change, especially since it means the fairy will no longer die to cleaves, meaning now we can just stick it right up the boss's ass without caring one tiny bit about it being hit. We can literally sit it on top of the tank during Fey Union tether no matter what punch, stomp, dragon breath, or monkey fart they bust out, and that's convenient, because having the fairy die because it was too close to the tank is annoying. I will however miss being able to use the fairy as a threat diversion by splitting heal aggro with it, since I almost guarantee fairy aggro will from now on be associated as SCH aggro. This is a bit of a downgrade because SCHs are generally fantastic low-aggro healers with the fairy splitting the hate, especially compared to WHM. Also not being able to deploy shields off of it is a direct nerf to the class's options, though this is mitigated with the powerful crit-on-demand Recitation, which outweighs the loss of this function simply by existing. Seriously, if I know I can crit guaranteed, there is almost no reason I would ever choose to not guarantee crit-adlo a tank with convalescence or tank stance on to buff its strength, so the fairy as a shield terminal isn't a huge loss.

All that being said, what I do regret is the change towards making fairy abilities into player spells. Seriously, this was kind of a neat aspect of the fairy in general in that you were able to command it while doing other things. Using Whispering Dawn while in the middle of casting Broil was extremely fun. Making Embrace an instant cast is fine from a gameplay perspective because it means there's no more "embrace lag" when telling the fairy to do something else, but making fairy abilities into player-casted things like Fey Union just makes them feel like additional SCH spells, just with a targeting positional set where the fairy is. That's disappointing. It's not game changing, but it's very disappointing, and just not as fun a design.

It's also a little vexing that embrace can't be targeted, but with the fairy freely positional it may still be possible to "force" it to heal the tank by putting it directly behind them in the boss cleave zone, though this would probably prevent whispering dawn and such from hitting the rest of the raid. Still, might be an option to plan for.

No, I like having a fairy around.

So you basically wanna remove the fairy for the wrong reasons. And what about new players who play SCH for the first time? "Awesome i got a cool fairy pet!" "why can't i summon her?" "Who's stupid idea was this???"
If you take away something which is very important to the job and lore just because of some changes to certain skills, then you bascally killed the job as a whole. The fairy stays, end of story.

You'd also have to completely rewrite the job quests if you remove the faerie. She's very central to it.

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Originally Posted by Riblet

They are already killing off Selene in Shadowbringers, just take her sister too.

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This is something that bothered me more than most other players I think. But it's just sad that instead of coming up with a fun and creative solution to fix Selene they just turned her Eos. If that's not lazy design methodology...then nothing is.

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Originally Posted by Riblet

With the changes to the fairy coming in Shadowbringers, I think it's about time they just remove it. Reasons why:

#1. Pet no longer has HP or is targetable

The fairy is no longer a targetable, has any HP, or an aggro table. The SCH cannot use it for deployment tactics, or as add peal in FATEs / Eureka. It acts more like a minion at this point.

#2. Embrace

Embrace is now insta-cast and is no longer a button that can be used to individually target players. The result is less control but more mobility. Adding a trait to SCH that heals anyone within 25 yalms every 3 seconds with 0 aggro would do the exact same thing: an uncontrollable passive heal.

#3. Pet Skills on SCH oGCD

The nail in the coffin, pet skills are now oGCD skills for the SCH. No longer can you use Whispering Dawn while you are casting Broil or Adlo, you now have to use it at the same time you would hit Lustrate or Excog; while not casting. If they are going to act just like our oGCDs, then make them our oGCDs, not a more annoying version.

These are my thoughts. Make Embrace a trait, move all oGCD skills to the SCH. Dissipation and the new Super Fairy? Combine them into one ability. 2-3 minute cooldown where you gain 3 aetherflow and unlock new abilities for 20-30 seconds, kind of similar to how Dreadwyrm Trance was in Heavensward. We can keep the gauge, just rename it something like "static aether: aether that is left over from our aetherflow abilities that is gathered by the SCH". It would still allow the use of Fey Union but prevent the previous fairy oGCDs from working.

They are already killing off Selene in Shadowbringers, just take her sister too.

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Nope. The fairy's fine, sorry you dont like the Aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by Riblet

They are already killing off Selene in Shadowbringers, just take her sister too.

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Technically, Eos and Selene are not siblings. They're just different aspects of the same fairy.

Honestly, if the Fairy is the major balancing tipping point of SCH, it would probably be better to remove it or do like PVP does (it's not always there.)

Because SCH can never truly be balanced as long as the fairy is always there.

I feel like a lot of your points against the fairy are actually more of a boon than a burden. Not having any HP or being attackable by enemies is good. There will at least be someone healing. Insta-cast healing is always good. Again, so at least someone is healing at all times. And the oGCD thing has never really been disruptive for any other job I've played, so I don't really see how that's such a huge issue.

Just wait until ShB is out and play it. You'll get over it quickly.

I second the OP, I liked that fairy as it was and it added to the uniqueness of Scholar.

Then they just went and made the fairy a glorified oGCD heal, and at this point it might as well not even be there anymore.

Honestly, I've been thinking the same thing... >w>()
Unless they're going to give us an actual reason to switch Eos or Selene (which probably wouldn't happen until 6.0), they could of easily just turned Fairies into a Trait that still has the fairy follow us, replace the summon buttons with a Place and Heel/Come Back button, and then make Fairy Glamour a thing for those who want Selene instead of Eos.
While SMN's egi got a similar treatment, the Egi at least are designed for different uses (Ifrit is Single-Target, Garuda is now AoE, and Titan is for solo-content and downtime).

Stop asking for simplification. The fairy is what it is, and it's needed and working fine the way as it is. The unneeded things were already removed, and that's enough.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

Stop asking for simplification. The fairy is what it is, and it's needed and working fine the way as it is. The unneeded things were already removed, and that's enough.

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I don't think the OP is asking for a simplification, I think they're pointing out the problem that fairies have been overly simplified in 5.0. :B

the only advantage and flaw of faery is your heals/buffs don't come from u .. but another point.

and that's something no other healer has (except whm with cure 3)

it's great to be on a corner and still AoE regen party at center or arena. It's also a bummer when u cast your AoE regen thinking your faery follows u .. just to realise only 1 ally gets it :).

but I don't know if it's lazy design but u can clearly see they struggle to balance healer ... and their way of balancing is to make us a bit too similar ..



and I don't get why faeries didn't get same treatment as smn egis .. 2 faeries with 2 different uses and change the cast time as the SN have. maybe one more focused on ST healing and one on group ... and we would have to change faery during fight depending on what we need. Would have been better to place faery at the center of our healing rotation. But they kind of move away from that. And even the angel feel meh .. especially when u see the base abilities are exactly the same as Eos.

maybe what they could have done is a more support faery with limited heals and then a buff that changes faery into a more healing intensive pet for a short duration.

there are so much stuff u could do with the faery :/

I like the lore and identity aspect of the fairy. I agree the changes they made mean they could just remove her. If it weren't for the tiny bit of micromanagement we have left (aka: placing her so her heals hit people) I'd say begone with her.

The fairy is core to the sch's identity, that being said it still has the advantage of being able to place it and control its range. It's not going anywhere.

This whole simplification thing is really startin to itch me in the underpants. Why in hells did they have to even touch her, she was fine, SMN pets were fine. I mean I get that there was an issue with healers bein green dps, but wow, did they have to gut SCH so? You had one job SE, fix WHM...not rek the other two. Anyone havin pet issues was either lazy, or not paying attention. NOW, havin had my little rant, I will remain cautiously optimistic that SCH will still be fun, just different. If it's not I'll go to one of the other two, if that one suks, then the next one (Typically I really take 'main class' serious, optimize to the exclusion of all else). If that one suks then I guess I'll have to tank or something *sigh*

(edit) Just to add for clarity, it's my firm belief that not every class/job has to be perfect, there will and should be skills of limited general use, there should be disadvantages, there should be content that favours one type of healer/dps/tank over another. If it wasn't so, we'd just get 3 choices "Healer", "Tank", "DPS". Makin em look different doesn't change that, and that's where we are heading, a bunch of different classes that just do the same damn 3 things, but look different doin it..

(edit again) cats cannae count...3 instead of 4 <.<

I mean, if anything, they made having two fairies entirely redundant. Selene is now just an egi glamour in every way, shape, and form. Great job! /s

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Originally Posted by nalol

the only advantage and flaw of faery is your heals/buffs don't come from u .. but another point.

and that's something no other healer has (except whm with cure 3)

it's great to be on a corner and still AoE regen party at center or arena. It's also a bummer when u cast your AoE regen thinking your faery follows u .. just to realise only 1 ally gets it :).

but I don't know if it's lazy design but u can clearly see they struggle to balance healer ... and their way of balancing is to make us a bit too similar ..

:/

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Yeah, the only unique mechanic for the fairy come Shadowbringers is that ability to heal someone while you are personally out of range. We can't target with embrace, but Fey Union could still be used. I think the problem is that most boss arenas are small enough not to warrant this. The only situations where this becomes useful would be in a 24-man dungeon or PvP, but that's a separate can of worms.

TBH, I'm actually surprised that they didn't introduce new fairies in Stormblood or at least W-summon... Oh, and a wicker man tank pet for mp to heal melty tanks

Am I the only one who understood OP's post as sarcasm to address the fact that the fairy is being reduced to not being a pet anymore? I don't think he is actually asking for the fairy to be removed, just addressing the fact that it might as well be removed since it doesn't really act as a pet anymore.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

Am I the only one who understood OP's post as sarcasm to address the fact that the fairy is being reduced to not being a pet anymore?

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That was the point of my comment as well, as the fairy has indeed been reduced to just being a fancy oGCD dispenser.

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

That was the point of my comment as well, as the fairy has indeed been reduced to just being a fancy oGCD dispenser.

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Regardless, it's a separate entity then the caster which gives it an advantage with positioning compared to the other two healers.

tbh my only issue with the fairy is that they seem to be basing more of its identity on it rather than the combat medic aspects.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

Am I the only one who understood OP's post as sarcasm to address the fact that the fairy is being reduced to not being a pet anymore? I don't think he is actually asking for the fairy to be removed, just addressing the fact that it might as well be removed since it doesn't really act as a pet anymore.

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At least someone caught on. :D