Suggestion: Making 3.x Alliance Raids relevant

Alliance Raid Roulette has been focused on 2.x raids simply because of the influx of new players and old players that want to know/get a refresher on the storyline in preparation for 5.0-

-however I was disappointed that the Itinerant Moogle event did NOTHING to reward runs of Dun Scaith, Weeping City of Mhach and Void Ark. They are content worth running too, in my opinion. And there are many veteran players who are surely tired of running the same old Labyrinth, Syrcus and World of Darkness and would have loved to revisit 3.x alliance raids instead.

I hope the development team gives some effort into giving the Dun Scaith raid series some love and attention too! Thank you!

I tried to do Wiping City a couple days ago for WT, peak time, gave me a 30+ minute queue on all roles.
Tried again a couple hours later, gave me a <5m queue that never ended, implying that it defaulted to <5m due to no one running it at all in the past couple hours...

Even if they'd add Irregular Tomestones to the Mhach raids, most would still avoid those three raids in favor of the Crystal Tower raids.

Labyrinth of the Ancients, and Syrcus Tower are both much easier and faster to clear, which means obtaining Irregular Tomestones faster. It's also rather easy to avoid getting the Mhach raids when queueing up for the roulette, since all you have to do is take off enough gear for your iLvl to drop below i175 (or below i90 if you want to avoid WoD as well).

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

most would still avoid those three raids in favor of the Crystal Tower raids.

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Source?

Unless you ask every single player with an active subscription, you'll never know for sure if "most would still avoid" these raids. Hence why I'm suggesting that the Weeping City raids get some rewards too; if players wanted to, they'd do them. Right now, the Crystal Tower series is tired just because of its age alone.

I avoid 3.x raids intentionally. When leveling up classes in the 60 range I put on all ilvl120 and then queue, then once the queue pops I put back on my regular gear.

2.x alliance raids are quicker, easier to teach new players, and more time efficient for xp

I don't get that at all.
I'm perfectly happy to play the 3.x raids and I don't know anyone in game who actively avoids them.
2.x raids aren't that much quicker, in fact we wiped on WoD last night.

It's also worth noting they seem very eager to get people to do Crystal Tower ahead of ShB, which is likely why they put irregular tomes in it. All the other stuff in the moogle event is MSQ related so tomes are there in the hopes of shortening queues for newcomers coming in ahead of the expansion. The Shadow of Mhach series has neither of these as a factor so probably was never on the table.

I would love to see those raids be for an event/ have a reason to run them again.

Mhach series is my absolute favorite out of three in XIV as it's the most original concept raid out of the three. It taps more into XIV's lore and Mhach itself is such an interesting place. I love how it brings Diabolos as the main villain too as we see him mainly in Ampador so it takes us back to the Great Magi War.

But the biggest thing I love is that it has the biggest sense of adventure out of three. Exploring the void arch, making our way from the Outskirts of Mhach all the way to Nullstone generator, and my god Dun Scaith.

Dun Scaith on it's own merit should be a great reason to run it. A love letter to Irish mythology taking characters like Ferdiad, Scáthach and the location of Dun Scaith itself as tying them all into XIV is fantastic. I love how the songs from both Weeping City and Dun Scaith also use the Mohr Dhona field theme as the locations are very close to MD.

But from a gameplay standpoint all three of these should be run. Void ARK is on the same level as SycrusTower in terms of how easy it is, but it's also way more fun. I'd much rather be running that for an aesthetic point of view then ST. Mhach and Dun Scaith I'd like to because you actually have to do mechanics that are fare more enjoyable then anything the ST raids brought.

I love seeing people be blown away by Ozma in Weeping City, or those immediate people dying on Dun Scaith to Deathgaze Hollow's wind blast. It's just a fun experience and it really teaches people more about mechanics that will be a more constant for the future. I figured out every mech for Deathgaze Hollow just by watching him in real time and it felt amazing knowing what to do for them all. You don't get experiences like that with the ST raids as it's usually a tank and spank unless you do WoD.

I think it's a safe assumption to say most players avoid the 3.X alliance raids simply cause of Dun Scaith. Too much wiping/duty abandons happen on the first boss alone.

Not even mentioning Mr. Megadeath and Ozma.

Every time I queue into Alliance Raid, if I get into something like Dun Scaith, 90% of the time its a first boss wall and people drop immediately.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

I think it's a safe assumption to say most players avoid the 3.X alliance raids simply cause of Dun Scaith. Too much wiping/duty abandons happen on the first boss alone.

Not even mentioning Mr. Megadeath and Ozma.

Every time I queue into Alliance Raid, if I get into something like Dun Scaith, 90% of the time its a first boss wall and people drop immediately.

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I've only wiped to Deathgaze once, and never had an abandon.
But then I've only played it half a dozen times because it never comes up in the roulette...

Maybe they should enforce the minimum ilvl for your highest unlocked Alliance Raid.
I've you've unlocked Dun Scaith, you can't run Alliance Roulette with less than a 235 ilvl.

I still need the minion from Dun Scaith.
I only ever rolled a 50 or lower on it but now it usually takes over 50 minutes to pop now ...
Ofc the Weeping minion you can get from the event, but not the Dun Scaith >_>

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

I think it's a safe assumption to say most players avoid the 3.X alliance raids simply cause of Dun Scaith. Too much wiping/duty abandons happen on the first boss alone.

Not even mentioning Mr. Megadeath and Ozma.

Every time I queue into Alliance Raid, if I get into something like Dun Scaith, 90% of the time its a first boss wall and people drop immediately.

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I've ran it 187 times just for the minion alone. (Yes, super unlucky). Then I continue to queue for it because I simply love that it's actually challenging - you can't cheese mechanics like Glasya Labolas in Syrcus Tower just as an example. I'm now up to 291 coins from Dun Scaith alone.

I've never had any raids vote abandon simply because I'd quickly type the mechanics simply (or paste them to a macro) - with new people, OF COURSE, they won't be able to do it. We were all new ones, but we have a choice as seasoned players to explain mechanics. If you're unwilling to explain mechanics, then that's your problem, but don't blame it on the raid being susceptible to "too much wiping".

The issue with fixing 3.x Alliance Raids is you break 2.x in the process. If the event had the tomestones drop in 3.x Raids, they'd still do 2.x ones. If you increased the number you get to where people would want to do 3.x, they'll be doing 3.x instead of 2.x ones. That's the paradox.

What would need to be done is offer rewards in both that people want, but the rewards have to be different. This way people want both.

Perhaps for the next event, the mounts and minions could require two types of tomestones and you have to get them from different sources. Course this doesn't allow 1-59 players to enjoy them. And doesn't help the content during non-event times during the season.

Geeze... if only there were some kind of content they could have in the game to make old content relevant. Maybe where you create and power up a weapon over the course of an expansion.... some kind of, I dunno, animoo weapon. Just throwing ideas out there...

Lately doing Dun Scaith a lot while farming glamour. Queue time can vary between 10 and 90 minutes. It is normal to leave 1-3 people before start. Deathgaze Hollow generally kill several and my MP go very low for ress my alliance and others. Sometimes 1-2 wipes.

Sometimes wipe against Scathach when people ignore add.
Sometimes wipe against Diabolos Hollow by high damage and healers deads.

Wipes against Ferdiad Hollow and Proto Ultima are very rare.

Once Alliance B abandoned and was not replaced, but we manage to win against Proto Ultima (lacking 1-2 seconds for wipe) and others. Practically a miracle.

Aren't all events typically designed so that you only need a copy of ARR to do them? This is probably why all the moogle tomes are from 2.x content.

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Originally Posted by AlexiosCalisthenes

I've ran it 187 times just for the minion alone. (Yes, super unlucky). Then I continue to queue for it because I simply love that it's actually challenging - you can't cheese mechanics like Glasya Labolas in Syrcus Tower just as an example. I'm now up to 291 coins from Dun Scaith alone.

I've never had any raids vote abandon simply because I'd quickly type the mechanics simply (or paste them to a macro) - with new people, OF COURSE, they won't be able to do it. We were all new ones, but we have a choice as seasoned players to explain mechanics. If you're unwilling to explain mechanics, then that's your problem, but don't blame it on the raid being susceptible to "too much wiping".

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Whether, mechanics are explained or not, does not somehow guarantee execution before one wipe nor after it. I have been a part of these groups with immediate drops and vote abandons once majority of a group dies to the first Lvl Death mechanic, for example.

The raid has a higher chance of failure across the board and most seasoned players would rather not deal (for sake of saving time) and leave rather than coach. Seasoned players have a choice to explain, the same way they have a choice to not stay and wipe/carry through the instance and the same way new players can read up a guide or checking up mechanics before entering the instance to not hold up others.

Your experience with Dun Scaith maybe different than mine and that's fine but that doesn't change any facts. It seems more players dislike trudging through it versus something like Lighthouse.

I know ppl dissagre but i wished they would force us to have the max gear when queing for raids/trials etc... either do the roulet or que directly.

Ironically when I queued up for an alliance roulette a couple nights ago with the intent of getting the tomestones I of course wound up getting Mhach instead. What I learned is, if you want to get the raids/dungeons you're actually hoping for, aim for the duties you don't want.

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Originally Posted by AlexiosCalisthenes

Source?

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Common sense and/or the fact that it pops up so often in Alliance Roulette.

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Originally Posted by AlexiosCalisthenes

Unless you ask every single player with an active subscription, you'll never know for sure if "most would still avoid" these raids. Hence why I'm suggesting that the Weeping City raids get some rewards too; if players wanted to, they'd do them. Right now, the Crystal Tower series is tired just because of its age alone.

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Did you even bother reading my entire post? I explained why most people would still avoid it, but I'll repeat myself.

Labyrinth of the Ancients/Syrcus Tower are easier/faster to clear, compared to any of the Mhach raids. Faster clears means players will obtain irregular tomestones at a faster rate. Considering irregular tomestones are kind of a grind, most people would grind them out in the most efficient way possible.

I enjoy both raid series, but I can easily see which of the two is more time efficient.