Good Day everyone,
Ever since the release of SB and tanks were forced to wear Tank accessories, it has always bugged how much I didn't know that gap is between tank accessories STR and Slaying/Striking Accessories.
I today I decided to pain-mistakenly (this isn't a misspelling) comparing the Slaying/Striking versus Tank accessories. I only did the Earring Accessory as a trial.
https://i.imgur.com/cvBIsCr.png
My reasoning behind why the chart is at is it:
1. We can assume all iLevel gear from 1 to 260 is a mute point at this time in FFXIV's life. The chart assumes that the player leveling Tank will always choose accessories that has STR on it... since they have the freedom to do so.
2. Real comparison doesn't start until Stormblood accessories are added, where all tanks are forced to have tanking gear. This where the blue line splits from the orange line and creates an area what I call "Debt Valley" (not a misspelling).
3. Instead of me using a better site that has the numbers laid out for me, I used the armory from SE itself. So all gear is a base level. There is no max-stat materia considered.
Based on the analysis I have now, just for earrings, we are far from our below STR potential if SE didn't block tanks from using Slaying/Striking accessories. I don't think everyone needs to be told that.
Just to give a picture, though: The iLevel 400 Omega Tank earring has the same STR as the iLevel 220 Prototype slaying earring. 180 ilevel difference as base value.
So, I want to improve on this analysis:
1. I need to consider max stat that can be gained from materia (including overmelding). Does anyone know a site where I can get that information easily?
2. I am curious about the curve of the gear for ShB. Does anyone know in any of the videos or press releases they have saw where anyone happened to show the stats of the 430ish gear?
My main concern is twofold:
1. SE has stated in the past that they feel tanks deal too much damage. I believe one way they will curve tank damage is to lesson STR.
2. When Shb arrive, all gear will have some STR boosted and STR materia will grant noting. So we have no way to close the gap between slaying accessory STR and tank accessory STR.
Appreciate the help if anyone can provide me the sources. I will provide a better chart once I can get my hands on what I am looking for.
iLevel STR Gain Analysis Help
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06-07-2019, 04:55 AMXtrasweetteaiLevel STR Gain Analysis Help
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06-07-2019, 05:08 AMKabooa
I can save you a lot of pain and tell you it's not going to matter.
Just wear the highest ilvl accessories you can equip. -
06-07-2019, 05:18 AMFicoJM
https://i.imgur.com/WdhDMnQ.png
Pic is from Xeno's tank analysis
193str / 198vit so going forward the gap is pretty much irrelevant and they've said in the live letter they're adjusting all tank accessories from before 5.0. -
06-07-2019, 05:20 AMXtrasweetteaYou are correct, it isn't going to matter. I already wear the highest iLevel accessory I can wear already, so what you are telling me is in practice...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabooa
What matters to me is that I can be curious, obtain information, analyze that information, and share the information. Anyone will be able to use that information for whatever purpose they see fit. -
06-07-2019, 05:22 AMXtrasweetteaThanks, FicoJM.Quote:
Originally Posted by FicoJM
True, though I am just curious about the potential growth. That 193 STR really blows it out of the water.Quote:
[...] so going forward the gap is pretty much irrelevant and they've said in the live letter they're adjusting all tank accessories from before 5.0.
Assuming that the gap between 400 slaying and tank is 70%, then we are looking at close to 328 STR for that particular slaying accessory at iLevel 440. Again, this is all theory based on current gear growth. -
06-07-2019, 05:26 AMkashi11the i430 ring from the same video had 187str / 197vit so in 10 ilvls it went up +6str/+1vit which I find interesting. I'm glad they seemed to fix the issues we've had in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by FicoJM
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06-07-2019, 11:31 AMJeeqbit
Let's be honest. They didn't have to embrace tanks DPSing. They could have left accessories without strength in 5.0, knowing our health would become so low with HW accessories that we'd struggle to do basic tank mechanics. They could have put the damage reduction penalty in the traits as well. But they know it would just upset us when they are trying to sell a new expansion to us.
Look how selling bowmage to bards worked out for them. A lot of them unsubbed and the entire job vanished from existance. It's not good marketing to upset your players with expansion changes.
They've clearly embraced the idea of tanks DPSing in every way, including by getting rid of enmity combos, allowing us to use tank stance without penalty and allowing us to match the strength of DPS jobs. I even noticed that the Tank Mastery trait we get at L1 grants a "bonus to damage dealt based on your strength attribute". Our potencies have been buffed. Some of these things may be accounting for the lack of an offensive stance, but they really have pulled out all of the stops to make us a blue DPS, haven't they?
Of course, the internal damage calculations could be where they hit the tank damage more than normal, but is that necessary when they can just increase all enemy health to account for increased tank damage?
When all the other changes are this positive we should give them the benefit of the doubt. -
06-07-2019, 05:52 PMArianeEwahIf they would've decided to change tank stances to be something actual benefical, that would be no problem. But right now (and HW, too) tanks stance is far too weak to compensate the damage penality. They could've shown a different interessting gameplay, but tank stance is mostly dull and restricting gameplay expierence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
And as you stated, boring gameplay can't be sold. They had to change design here, and I am actually happy with it. For design we've also to take synced content into account - because it still takes a large amount of (re-)playable content available, and SE did that pretty well here. We can use our full kits without any penalities or restrictions, and I like the changes to PLD and WAR especially - Gauge accumulation without tank stance (Defiance), and "highest DPS" combo without enmity gain attached to it (PLD - RoH).
As for the description of tank mastery: I bet the part about "a bonus to damage dealt based on your strength attribute" is to be taken in a "directional" way. It states that tanks gain damage as they gain strength, so that newcomers don't equip DEX, INT or MND. I don't think tanks will deal more damage than or equal damage to DPS now. On the other hand VIT does indeed increase tanks HP pool further. I've read a reddit post about the actual numbers, and iirc it was roughly about 30HP/VIT for tanks, 20HP/VIT for everyone else. -
06-07-2019, 06:06 PMLegion88
The better Question is: How are the stat differences between fending and striking in ShB?
It was mentioned in the LL that all accessoires will be changed and only tank accessoires will have VIT+STR and everything else only VIT. -
06-07-2019, 07:09 PMArianeEwahClarification: They meant that tank accessories will have their VIT and STR values maxed (just like the screenshot posted by FicoJM).Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion88
Other job will have VIT added into their accessories. So secondary stats excluded, striking will be (almost) exactly the same as tank accessories. -
06-11-2019, 01:59 AMDonjo
Tanky Accessory
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2.36.19_PM.png
Dancy Accessory
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2.36.39_PM.png
They're both identical. +193 Damage Stat, +198 Vit, +180 Main Secondary, +126 Minor Secondary. If these ratios are being kept for the release, then Tanks will end up with almost the same amount of Strength as other jobs have of their Damage Stats. Xeno helpfully put everyone's combined stats into a spreadsheet here:
https://i.redd.it/tekzt7qy1j131.png -
06-11-2019, 04:53 AMXtrasweetteaWell well, dang. Nice. Thanks for sharing. I definitely not worried when it comes to scaling now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo